Author Topic: XXX Domain for Pornography - your thoughts?  (Read 17695 times)

Eleven Mike

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Re: XXX Domain for Pornography - your thoughts?
« Reply #50 on: January 10, 2007, 12:21:52 PM »
Werewolf,

By espousing that all porn should go away he is saying that all porn should go away.  That has nothing to do with thought control.  It doesn't have anything to do with legislation.

Eleven Mike

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Re: XXX Domain for Pornography - your thoughts?
« Reply #51 on: January 10, 2007, 12:27:31 PM »
Because they use those religious/moral opinions to dictate what others do through legislation, etc.  That's why.

They?  I thought we were talking about Levercaster.  Perhaps we're actually talking about your stereotype of anyone who speaks out against pornography or has less-than-fashionable religious convictions. 

Caimlas

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Re: XXX Domain for Pornography - your thoughts?
« Reply #52 on: January 10, 2007, 12:38:58 PM »
On the topic of 'forcing' a migration:

When talking about this, you've got to recall the original intent when creating naming services for the Internet: they were to make numeric address reference much more easily referenced. (For instance, now you go to domainname.com instead of having to remember 232.49.42.14.)

Yes, it adds another level of complexity and difficulty when setting up a domain (you not only have to get your IP address but also a domain name - and then have the domain name point to that IP address), but it's a necessary component in referencing a site. It doesn't necessarily have to be contextual to the site's content - though that's useful. However, I think that it should be within the scope of ICAN to determine what kind of sites can host content on a given top level domain (ie .com, .net, etcetera).

Currently, there's already restrictions for .gov and .edu, as well as stated but unenforced restrictions (more like guidelines) for .net (for 'network') and .org ('organization'). Really, if you think about it, having these domain monickers is fairly antiquated, even when you consider .com (originally for 'company') and the two-letter country-associated domains (.tw, .uk, .ru, and on and on). These limited naming conventions were conceptualized long before the Internet became completely global and where anyone can set up a domain on any topic matter whatsoever.

The rules predate network gaming, digital photography, and any of the other media elements. Furthermore, there were other, different technologies and protocols for things which are done over the WWW namespace today: newsgroups were largely supplanted by forums and bulletin boards (such as this one); web-based chat supplanted IRC; sites like downloads.com supplanted FTP file repositories. Everything and everything had a web interface tacked on, and the price of entry into independent web hosting is now a thousandth (or less) of the cost of such things 10 (ok, more like 12 or 13) years ago.

Meanwhile, the web using demographic has changed drastically. During the Internet's adolescence (ie 13 or so years ago), the primary people "online" were researchers, technologists, university students, larger businesses and corporations. Things like AOL - sans actual Internet access - were still thoroughly in the realm of 'home computer hobbyist'.

So basically, I think the top level domains are broken. I think that, like any data reference mechanism, the domains should be reorganized and updated. There should be .porn, as well as an array of other topical segregations which could broadly apply where it would be more appropriate than .com (company specific sites - iirc; it may have been for 'community' but I can't find a reference right now), .net (networks of any type), and .org (again, formal or informal organizations). Here are the ones I would add, off the top of my head:

* .forum
* .blog
* .porn
* .news
* .res or .lib (for 'resources' or 'libraries')
* .guns (hey, I'm an American!)

Of course, alternatively, we could always transliterate UNIX file storage nomenclature to domain topicality; it would work better, and wouldn't be as anarchistic, but it would certainly be more difficult to maintain and would be liable to abuse. Somewhere in between, I think, would be preferential. (Newsgroup nomenclature is also something I'd jump at.)

Either way, with the potential number of domains and sites out there, there's really no practical way to enforce anything - especially not at prices under $10 a year. No company will switch, 'simply because'; they're already established with that 'name', and short of forceful coersion, things will remain as they are, I think: individuals converging on a mostly-automated process making individual choices. Adding more domains will simply add options (which are, IMO, good and useful).

The real "problem" then, as it's being perceived, is that porn and other similar items are crowding out the rest of the Internet and generally getting in the way of what people are looking for - generally, information in one form or another. Understandably, as pornography is the primary material on the Internet. Heck, roughly <a href="http://siliconvalley.internet.com/news/article.php/3083001">12%[/url] of the Internet's content is porn - that's a lot of naked, uninhibited girls from California! (But, I digress.)

Thus, porn (and not spam and advertising sites) is the topic of the day, as it's the most distracting or offensive to a majority of viewers: if you don't find it offensive, you're likely to be distracted by it. (Or asexual.) This results in people wanting to organize and segregate things, so they can avoid being bombarded by them.

So, maybe there's a way to maintain the 'unenforced', free-form nature of the Internet while gaining a degree of organization. I think that, if it ever comes about, it will not come about through the crude mechanisms of domain names. If any current technology brings it about, it will likely be through search engines or a derived technology. Even the best current search engines are facing problems with spam and such now, too...

Headless Thompson Gunner

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Re: XXX Domain for Pornography - your thoughts?
« Reply #53 on: January 10, 2007, 12:40:39 PM »
Much ado about nothing...

Strings

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Re: XXX Domain for Pornography - your thoughts?
« Reply #54 on: January 10, 2007, 01:20:03 PM »
Levercaster, I can understand why what you saw at work would be burned into your brain: kiddie porn is just plain evil stuff. However, there are WORLDS of difference between some sicko taking pictures of lil' Jenny, and an adult Jenny willingly going into a studio to have pictures taken...

 As for your friend: some people have an addictive personality. Most often its with substance (alchohol, drugs), but can be ANYTHING: I know folks who are addicted to surfing the net, playing RPGs, whatever. If it's something that can be enjoyed, there's probably someone out there addicted to it...

 And please don't get offended when you use your religion's views to espouse morality: my religion's morals are just as acceptable to me as yours are to you, even though they're different...

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Re: XXX Domain for Pornography - your thoughts?
« Reply #55 on: January 10, 2007, 03:12:03 PM »
Because they use those religious/moral opinions to dictate what others do through legislation, etc.  That's why.

They?  I thought we were talking about Levercaster.  Perhaps we're actually talking about your stereotype of anyone who speaks out against pornography or has less-than-fashionable religious convictions. 

Most who speak against pornography in such a fashion believe it should be regulated against or out. 
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Re: XXX Domain for Pornography - your thoughts?
« Reply #56 on: January 10, 2007, 04:23:57 PM »
>Ummm... this is not a religious discussion so why bring it up?<

You quoted scripture to enforce your point. Since your scripture (for the most part) has absolutely no meaning to me (and several others here), quoting it doesn't do much for your arguement.

 As for the comments about Bundy (and others): isn't the only evidence we have to connect Bundy's actions to porn Bundy's own words? Wouldn't that be akin to believing "the Devil made me do it"? There are HOW many people in the US that looked at porn today, and didn't rape/molest/otherwise harm anyone?

*leaves for a sec*

Count me as one... just looked at some. Unless, of course, y'all expect me to rape my wife tonight, or something...

Perd Hapley

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Re: XXX Domain for Pornography - your thoughts?
« Reply #57 on: January 10, 2007, 06:02:48 PM »
Most who speak against pornography in such a fashion believe it should be regulated against or out. 
In what fashion?  Has anyone here advocated legislation to ban pornography?  Do you think it's OK for you to jump to conclusions based on your preconceived and erroneous ideas about people who oppose pornography? 
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charby

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Re: XXX Domain for Pornography - your thoughts?
« Reply #58 on: January 10, 2007, 06:51:43 PM »
pornography, drugs, booze, roll playing games, sports cars, gambling, polygamy, Internet, higher education, drugs, sex, political parties, guns, etc.

are a personal decision.

I'm glad I live someplace I can make that decision!
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Balog

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Re: XXX Domain for Pornography - your thoughts?
« Reply #59 on: January 10, 2007, 06:55:47 PM »
Quote from: mtnbkr
Nonporn Sites that have porn banners are a different issue entirely.

I remember when I was, what, 15? and using the computer in my uber religious sister's kitchen. I was trying to find pics of a GP-25 for a D20 Modern game I was in at the time, and I ended up on a Russian military weapons website. All Cyrillic characters so I was clicking at random, and ended up on one of those Euro porn sites with like 87 pop-ups per second. Awkward! "No really sis, I was looking at guns!"

Quote from: charby
pornography, drugs, booze, roll playing games, sports cars, gambling, polygamy, Internet, higher education, drugs, sex, political parties, guns, etc.

are a personal decision.

I'm glad I live someplace I can make that decision!
Emphasis added. First, I agree with the sentiment. Second it's roleplaying, because you are assuming the role of your character. Often confused because you spend a fair amount of time rolling funny shaped dice. Sorry to nitpick, just a pet peeve.
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charby

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Re: XXX Domain for Pornography - your thoughts?
« Reply #60 on: January 10, 2007, 07:27:35 PM »
Quote from: mtnbkr
Nonporn Sites that have porn banners are a different issue entirely.

I remember when I was, what, 15? and using the computer in my uber religious sister's kitchen. I was trying to find pics of a GP-25 for a D20 Modern game I was in at the time, and I ended up on a Russian military weapons website. All Cyrillic characters so I was clicking at random, and ended up on one of those Euro porn sites with like 87 pop-ups per second. Awkward! "No really sis, I was looking at guns!"

Quote from: charby
pornography, drugs, booze, roll playing games, sports cars, gambling, polygamy, Internet, higher education, drugs, sex, political parties, guns, etc.

are a personal decision.

I'm glad I live someplace I can make that decision!
Emphasis added. First, I agree with the sentiment. Second it's roleplaying, because you are assuming the role of your character. Often confused because you spend a fair amount of time rolling funny shaped dice. Sorry to nitpick, just a pet peeve.

I played D&D one time..  the knowledge I gained was at the roll of a dice.. 

I did that on purpose.

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Cosmoline

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Re: XXX Domain for Pornography - your thoughts?
« Reply #61 on: January 10, 2007, 08:01:22 PM »
I have seen men and families ruined by porn. Porn reduces women to two-dimensional lifeless images. No big deal? Google Ted Bundy. Ever see what happens to a teenage male that stumbles upon internet porn?

LOL, they go on to form 99% of the men on the planet?  Seriously, if a teenage male *ISN'T* trying to find porn, there's something seriously wrong with him.  Do you understand the concept of raging hormones?

Lampshades? 

Is Levercaster a woman?  Because that would explain much. 

tyme

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Re: XXX Domain for Pornography - your thoughts?
« Reply #62 on: January 11, 2007, 04:27:00 AM »
Quote from: levercaster
Porn is art, like a crucifix in urine is art, like lamp shades made of human flesh is art.  No thanks. Are you okay with it as long as it's not your mother / wife / son or daughter ?
If my parent(s) or children (N/A) wanted to be in porn, that would honestly be none of my business.  It's not my place to disown a relative because of anything they want to do that doesn't unfairly hurt others.  As for a wife or girlfriend, I don't expect to ever have a relationship with someone involved in porn, but whether I would accept one has less to do with the industry in general and more to do with the particular types of porn involved.

I've seen porn that I consider disgusting, but nothing that I consider "wrong."  Then again, I don't go looking for "child porn" of any sort.

Quote from: GunnySkox
Well, in the story you posted, the math teacher was definitely looking at the child porn. The kiddy porn is bad news, and I am certainly with you on putting a stop to the abuse of children (the laws       against viewing or possessing child-porn stipulate that since the making of such porn almost necessarily       involves abusing the child, that the porn itself is also bad news, I am on the same side as these laws).
Child porn is federally defined as naked and/or lascivious images involving anyone less than 18.  Claiming all such stuff is abusive to the "child" is disingenuous when you consider that age of consent is less than 18 in most places, and there's often an even lower age of consent when both individuals are minors or within a few years of each other.  If it's legal for a teen to have sex, how can you possibly argue that taking softcore pictures of that same teen is "abusive?"  Might the teen regret it later?  Of course...  but we all do things we regret.

Congress has repeatedly tried to make "child porn" include computer-generated images of underage nudity.  Ignoring the fact that it's rather difficult to tell some 15-year-olds from some 18-year-olds, it's simply not possible to harm anyone by creating computer-generated images.  (I'm not sure what the status of those laws is... one passed in 1998 was struck down by the SCOTUS, and there was another attempt in 2002 that I lost track of; maybe it didn't pass.)

What do you do with a case like Traci Lords, who faked her way into the porn industry as a minor?  The revelation that she was underage in her first films caused serious legal troubles for her movie agency for quite a while, until the government was forced to drop the case because Lords' "fake id" was actually a real U.S. passport identifying her as an adult.  Traci Lords, of course, was never charged.

The constant reference -- by the media, by the government, by anti-porn zealots -- to anyone under 18 as a "child" needs to stop.  It's a pathetic, manipulatory attempt to turn people's justified outrage over abused 10-year-olds into continued support for a ban on soft porn involving 17-year-olds.  Almost universally, such anti-porn zealots want all porn banned, not just "child porn."
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glockfan.45

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Re: XXX Domain for Pornography - your thoughts?
« Reply #63 on: January 11, 2007, 04:42:32 AM »
Quote
Quote from: Levercaster on January 10, 2007, 09:51:04 AM
No. It should all "go away". 


What other forms of people control do you support?

My thoughts exactly. I am for keeping the internet as free and unregulated as possible. So I say no to xxx domains. If you keep "accidently" comming across porno sites perhaps you need to just open up and come out of the closet  undecided .
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Perd Hapley

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Re: XXX Domain for Pornography - your thoughts?
« Reply #64 on: January 11, 2007, 04:51:46 AM »
tyme, I agree that we don't make enough distinction between teenagers and young children.  After all, how many adult men can honestly claim they've never found a seventeen-year-old girl to be sexually attractive?  But six-year-olds would be a different story.

But the fact that they're sexually mature doesn't mean they have the judgement to decide whether to appear in a porn film or even to have sex.  I don't know what the age of consent ought to be, but 18 doesn't seem unreasonable.  Now, I'm not saying that two sixteen-year olds can't film their sexual adventures and watch them privately.  But when it comes to making such images public, I think that takes it into another area, where the law might come in to protect the teenager from being exploited by friends or even by family.  That might seem like "nanny-stateism" but we ARE talking about young-un's who can't take care of themselves.



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tyme

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Re: XXX Domain for Pornography - your thoughts?
« Reply #65 on: January 11, 2007, 09:53:20 AM »
Quote
Now, I'm not saying that two sixteen-year olds can't film their sexual adventures and watch them privately.  But when it comes to making such images public, I think that takes it into another area, where the law might come in to protect the teenager from being exploited by friends or even by family.  That might seem like "nanny-stateism" but we ARE talking about young-un's who can't take care of themselves.
Federal law currently doesn't differentiate between private use and intent to distribute.  It's all illegal.

Even if it weren't, these "young-uns" who "can't take care of themselves" can't possibly be expected to understand the consequences, legal or otherwise, if they make that video available on the internet, either voluntarily or by one party as "revenge" for a break-up.

You can't have it both ways.  If they're responsible enough to know what they're doing, how can you justify making any of it -- the sex or the video -- illegal?  If they're not responsible enough to know what they're doing, you can make it illegal, but who's the criminal?  Are you willing to ruin lives whenever a minor gets caught with such stuff?

I don't have as much problem with a ban on professional under-age-of-consent porn, in theory.  In practice, how do you define "studio porn?"  Maybe that's an ambiguity we have to live with to "protect the children," but personally I'm not very convinced that children need much additional protection from that.  I think parents do a fairly decent job most of the time, and the teens who are likely to get involved in that stuff will, regardless of the law or what draconian punishments their parents dish out.  If there's clear evidence that children are being coerced into doing something, that's illegal whether there's sex involved or not.
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Re: XXX Domain for Pornography - your thoughts?
« Reply #66 on: January 11, 2007, 12:48:07 PM »
There WAS a case of a young lady (16, IIRC) who was busted for child pornography for taking and sending pictures of herself over the internet (just to demonstrate how silly the law can be)...


Balog

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Re: XXX Domain for Pornography - your thoughts?
« Reply #67 on: January 11, 2007, 06:38:11 PM »
Quote from: charby
I played D&D one time..  the knowledge I gained was at the roll of a dice.. 

I did that on purpose.

A long time ago in a galaxy far away there was a system called Rolemaster. It was almost universally derided as "Rulemaster" because it had like 8 billion tables for everything. I haveno idea why I'm pointing this out.

Oh, yeah the thread topic. Uhhh, how about that porn, eh?
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BakerMikeRomeo

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Re: XXX Domain for Pornography - your thoughts?
« Reply #68 on: January 11, 2007, 07:07:39 PM »
Quote
Child porn is federally defined as naked and/or lascivious images involving anyone less than 18.... etc.

My bad, I clearly did not bother to actually do any research about the "law(s)" I claimed to reference. Yeah, it's ridiculous that the legal system just pulls numbers out of a hat and starts busting consenting teens/near-adults for possessing pictures of themselves and each other. I was just trying to say that kiddie porn is definitely the bad news.

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Re: XXX Domain for Pornography - your thoughts?
« Reply #69 on: January 12, 2007, 06:50:44 AM »
Quote
The teacher was fired. He, his wife and children were suddenly without income.
I sincerely hope that's not your "family ruined by porn." That's a family ruined by an anti-porn policy.

Much the same way many families have been ruined by anti-drug policy.

(I'm not defending the child porn, or attacking this particular policy, just making a point.)
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Eleven Mike

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Re: XXX Domain for Pornography - your thoughts?
« Reply #70 on: January 12, 2007, 07:27:27 AM »
Quote
That's a family ruined by an anti-porn policy.
 

Brain...swelling...with disbelief.  You can't be serious.  A high school teacher is looking at CHILD porn AT SCHOOL, and you're telling me the school is at fault for firing him?  What don't I understand here? 

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Re: XXX Domain for Pornography - your thoughts?
« Reply #71 on: January 12, 2007, 07:50:36 AM »
Quote
A high school teacher is looking at CHILD porn AT SCHOOL, and you're telling me the school is at fault for firing him?  What don't I understand here?
Apparently the next part, where I said: "I'm not defending the child porn, or attacking this particular policy..."

My point was that it was not the porn that ruined the man's family, any more than marijuana would be to blame if my friend who has two daughters were to get busted for pot and go to jail.

The way Levercaster tells it, the man was not fired for having child porn, but for having porn.

I know my point isn't 100% valid in this particular case, because there was child porn and because other people saw the porn (though probably not the child porn or it would've been told that way), but  in other cases where this is not the case the result has been the same.

BTW: http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=5430343841227974645

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Eleven Mike

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Re: XXX Domain for Pornography - your thoughts?
« Reply #72 on: January 12, 2007, 08:05:50 AM »
In the marijuana case, you're talking about the cure being worse than the disease.  I understand that.

The porn case is different.  Parents will raise hell about this man looking at pornography, child or otherwise, in the same room where he teaches their teenage daughters.  I'm sure there are plenty of teachers engaging in untoward behavior off-campus, but if they can't keep it off-campus, they simply don't deserve to teach.  And how will school officials explain themselves if there is an "incident" and they already knew about the porn issue? 

In any case, he was looking at child porn at school, and that should be obvious grounds to fire the guy.

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Re: XXX Domain for Pornography - your thoughts?
« Reply #73 on: January 12, 2007, 08:58:36 AM »
Eleven Mike, I agree with you: to a point. That point is reached by certain (for lack of a better term) fundamentalists who feel ANY nude image is porn: there were a few at my wife's college who wanted her busted for her copy of The Figure in Motion, because it was a series of nudes (never mind the purpose of the book was to give artists a range of models they could use)...

 Teacher looking at porn in their classroom? Yeah... this is an actionable offense. Looking at kiddie porn (and lets assume it IS kiddie porn for the moment)? Yep... fire and prosecute. But there should be a limit to how far we go with this...

Perd Hapley

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Re: XXX Domain for Pornography - your thoughts?
« Reply #74 on: January 12, 2007, 10:05:01 AM »
Levercast's posts are gone now, but he made clear the images were of "girls aged seven and up."   So, there shouldn't be any confusion there.

Hunter Rose, I hear your concern.  I'm guessing they had something else against your wife that wasn't "actionable."  Sorry to hear about her troubles. 

I think the word you were looking for was something like "wierdo."  Fundamentalists ought to know that "Thou shalt look not upon naked people" is neither a Christian fundamental nor scriptural.  Sorry, but I get a little defensive about that term, even though I'm not part of an official "Fundamentalist" church, and don't know anyone who is.  Or maybe they were just wierd fundamentalists.  Bet they have that polar bear verse in their Bibles.
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