Author Topic: Top 25 Defensive Gun Uses Of 2017  (Read 1903 times)

LadySmith

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Hawkmoon

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Re: Top 25 Defensive Gun Uses Of 2017
« Reply #1 on: December 31, 2017, 10:18:41 AM »
Thank you. We need more coverage of such incidents.
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230RN

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Re: Top 25 Defensive Gun Uses Of 2017
« Reply #2 on: January 02, 2018, 12:11:52 AM »
The NRA collects and publishes these, to the tune of five or six every month.  Do the math.

Not all of them result in either a gun being fired or a criminal being dead.

And these are only samples of the fact that guns very often prevent crimes.

There are various estimates as to how often this happens in the U.S. The NRA has estimated 2 million a year, and I think the FBI says something like 67,000, but those seem to be only thoroughly documented incidents.

The truth is somewhere between the two, but for my part, even one crime prevention, if it involves me or mine, is plenty.

Terry
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K Frame

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Re: Top 25 Defensive Gun Uses Of 2017
« Reply #3 on: January 02, 2018, 07:24:14 AM »
"The NRA collects and publishes these, to the tune of five or six every month.  Do the math."

From October 1990 to April 1994 I was the one who compiled and edited The Armed Citizen for American Rifleman and American Hunter.

The number that we received every month was far in excess of what we could publish.

One month I published nothing but "gun displayed/gun fired but alleged crook not killed." I got an rather outraged, and outraging, letter from a guy in central Pennsylvania bitching about how NRA had probably hired a token Democrat liberal kid just out of J school who was afraid of guns and that's why no one died...

I talked with my editor (editor approved the letter) and wrote him back rather bluntly. Essentially "Look, numbnuts, as the intro blurb in the column says, most times guns aren't fired in defensive encounters. We use the BEST examples, not just the ones where Harry Patriot scatters Johnny Dindonuttin's brains all over the landscape, and with certainly no consideration given to your apparent case of bloodlust (not that blunt, but close). And by the way, I grew up less than 20 miles from you, in Perry County (rural and VERY conservative), so you get one guess as to what my politics are."

A few months later, just for grins and giggles, I published one that was ALL Harry Patriot scattering Johnny Dindonuttin's brains all over the landscape. I figured I'd get some rather testy letters.

Crickets.
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230RN

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Re: Top 25 Defensive Gun Uses Of 2017
« Reply #4 on: January 02, 2018, 11:04:44 AM »
^
:rofl:

Friggin' hilarious.

double-roffle:  :rofl: :rofl:

"The number that we received every month was far in excess of what we could publish."

I'm glad you mentioned that.

Thanks !

Terry
WHATEVER YOUR DEFINITION OF "INFRINGE " IS, YOU SHOULDN'T BE DOING IT.

K Frame

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Re: Top 25 Defensive Gun Uses Of 2017
« Reply #5 on: January 02, 2018, 11:24:32 AM »
One of the most interesting ones we ever got was a home invasion in a rural area. Dad, Mom, and 2 little kids were the targets. Dad fights them off with cheap .380 that apparently kept jamming. Can't remember if he shot anyone or not.

Something about the article just didn't sit right with me, so I decided to hold it before I did anything with it.

A week or so later I get the update, and I was right.

When the police (called by the wife) got there, Dad wasn't anywhere to be found, so they followed the sound of his tractor. Dad was out in the back 40... plowing his marijuana crop under.
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mtnbkr

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Re: Top 25 Defensive Gun Uses Of 2017
« Reply #6 on: January 02, 2018, 12:15:02 PM »
When the police (called by the wife) got there, Dad wasn't anywhere to be found, so they followed the sound of his tractor. Dad was out in the back 40... plowing his marijuana crop under.

At least he didn't attempt a controlled burn. :D

Chris

MechAg94

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Re: Top 25 Defensive Gun Uses Of 2017
« Reply #7 on: January 02, 2018, 03:07:26 PM »
Somewhere I saw a list of the different studies that estimated how many times per year guns were used in self defense (reported and unreported).  There were something like 8 to 12 studies and the average was in the 2 to 4 million range.  I think one was under a million, but the methods were questioned.  I thought I saved the link, but now I can't remember where I saw it. 

http://www.gunfacts.info/gun-control-myths/crime-and-guns/
Gun Facts has it at 2.5 million.

Found this:
https://www.cnsnews.com/news/article/cdc-study-use-firearms-self-defense-important-crime-deterrent
Quote
defensive gun uses by victims are at least as common as offensive uses by criminals, with estimates of annual uses ranging from about 500,000 to more than 3 million per year.”

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Ned Hamford

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Re: Top 25 Defensive Gun Uses Of 2017
« Reply #8 on: January 02, 2018, 03:25:02 PM »
And don't forget Ned's case.
(Guy is still working to get his guns back, but prosecutor's chief witness just gave a sworn statement she was threatened to give the right testimony and they told her what her story was and wouldn't let her correct it. She was also promised witness money that she didn't receive because she gave the 'wrong' testimony.)
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Scout26

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Re: Top 25 Defensive Gun Uses Of 2017
« Reply #9 on: January 02, 2018, 03:25:46 PM »
One of the most interesting ones we ever got was a home invasion in a rural area. Dad, Mom, and 2 little kids were the targets. Dad fights them off with cheap .380 that apparently kept jamming. Can't remember if he shot anyone or not.

Something about the article just didn't sit right with me, so I decided to hold it before I did anything with it.

A week or so later I get the update, and I was right.

When the police (called by the wife) got there, Dad wasn't anywhere to be found, so they followed the sound of his tractor. Dad was out in the back 40... plowing his marijuana crop under.

Apparently his name wasn't John Lee Pettimore, III.
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K Frame

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Re: Top 25 Defensive Gun Uses Of 2017
« Reply #10 on: January 03, 2018, 07:12:38 AM »
"And don't forget Ned's case."

Sorry, Ned, I've forgotten that case.

Can you refresh us, or point us to the link where you originally discussed it?
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Ned Hamford

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Re: Top 25 Defensive Gun Uses Of 2017
« Reply #11 on: January 03, 2018, 05:51:40 PM »
"And don't forget Ned's case."
Sorry, Ned, I've forgotten that case.
Can you refresh us, or point us to the link where you originally discussed it?
Jury Win and Press Release*Update

More Fun; Police Dept Dissolved with no transition plan enacted


TLDR; Mere presence of a license firearm keeps disabled man from being beaten to death.

Short: Upstate NY Law enforcement arrest wrong man, refuse to review facts, and seek to ruin man's life rather than do their job and continue to do so. Jury literally laughed the case out of court, but DA's office and certain cops continue to defame and expose him to harm; also seeking his pistol license; refusing to return his property to him.

Disabled (steel cage in his spine) man who is a father of 5 is picking up his niece.  His brother was having a rough patch with his wife's 7th affair; this time with a convicted violent felon out on parole. It was a scheduled pickup with a call ahead before leaving the house.  BF is on the couch doing or having just done drugs. My client Jim, who went in to use the bathroom, after using the bathroom spoke his mind to the effect of 'I don't give an F who the F you F, but doing F'in drugs in front of the kids with this F'in pill popper, you should be F'in ashamed.' Something like that.  The body builder physique felon doesn't take well to this.  He charges across the room and tackles him. Sister in law sees this and joins in, jumping on his back and choking him.  He is on the ground being punched, choked and kicked. His ribs and clavicle are cracked.  His brother, skinny small guy, hearing the commotion runs in, tries to pull the Bf off him, but is thrown against the wall dislocating his shoulder. The niece comes in, and her dad scoops her up and takes her away; the beating continues with Jim having crawled from one end of the room to the corner; trying to hide under a table; the table is pulled away and the beating continues.  Jim is concealed carry permit holder and his gun is kicked out; it is on the floor and is later recovered by Jim.  Beating a crippled man to death is fun, but they aren't messing with guns, so they stop immediately.  

The BF calls the police and says a gunman is kidnapping his gf's 3 year old daughter (she is 8 years old) and continues that he is fighting off two guys ect. Asked if he knows who they are he says his gf's husband, 911 operator asks if he means ex-husband, he says yah and later when he is in the hospital trying to score drugs (claimed a 9 level of pain, only 'injury' is an infected pimple and some redness where his chain was pulled), the story became ex-bf.  Asked about the gunman he says he thinks its his brother at which point Jim identifies himself by his full name.  Felon says gunman said he is going to kill everyone; asked about the location by 911 operator 'Oh, he is right next to me.'  Clearly no fear and absurdly false claims.

Anyways, police show up, initially arrest everyone but the mom.  Police speak to no neighbors, even the one that called 911 having watched the scene.  Felon will later go to that neighbors house with some friends and threaten to break his legs if he said anything.  Incident was likely partially caught on tape by a neighbor who kept a security cam running around his perimeter; but I only learn about that too late.  Housing manager has many complaints about the drug den house.  Jim's brother was publicly beaten in front of the house and all neighbors when the felon declared it his house now.  Brother was also beaten up a week earlier at the motel where he found his wife with the felon when he asked if the guy knew that was his wife; the response was a broken nose.  From making a criminal complaint at the unprovoked act of violence; the husband found himself at the station charged with disorderly conduct.  While nothing is known for sure, I think the felon is either a protected CI or just related to someone important.  
Felon violates parole on over 87 occasions just from his parole officer's reports.  During the 6 month lag for trial, during the last 4 months not even reporting to his parole officer anymore.  He winds up arrested when he is in a street fight that became viral (same gf pinning someone by choking them while on their back [ass exposed] and felon savagely kicking them) and while fleeing police is in a high speed DWI car chase with his brother driving that ends with a car accident, more fleeing from police, and a fight with police. This is reported in the news.  He winds up not being charged with anything and spends less than 2 months in prison for a 'technical' parole violation.

Jim is charged with assault and child endangerment.  His sister in law admits in family court it was actually her bf that probably started the fight.  Jim continues to babysit his niece for his SIL, despite his SIL having a temporary order of protection.  The Prosecutor maintains to the court the SIL is terrified of her brother in law; wants the order of protection ect.  SIL has called me telling me Child Protective Services and the Prosecutor have told her she has to stop letting her BIL take care of her daughter cause it looks bad with her charges; which she never wanted.  Skipping over a lot of AYFKM moments in court with prosecutorial misconduct and judicial mishandling (they maintain the Defense needs permission of the prosecution to introduce evidence, but no shock as in preliminary appearances the same assistant district attorney says the defense isn't allowed to have their own investigation).  I still have nightmares about that trial.  The Judge, at request of the prosecution used the pattern jury instructions for use of lethal force; despite no one dying.  She literally read 'Insert Decedent's name here' from the pattern jury instructions.  Other great rulings like 'character is not relevant' and prior bad acts are irrelevant. 4 long days of surreal nightmare with a long suffering Jury.  Jury rules in Defendant's favor.  Court officers warn the Defendant to watch out for the felon and apologize for his experience.  ADA shakes my hand, but he and the detective continue to maintain the jury was bamboozled and Jim is a terrible man who shouldn't have guns, so they refuse to release his guns to him and say he will have to sue to get them back.  While having filed in the local court to revoke his pistol permit and had it rejected, they have now filed with the county court stating the allegations of the criminal complaint and other things I'll get to.  SIL has since given a sworn statement saying the Detective told her what happened and told her to swear to it; refusing to let her correct, change, recant, or give a new statement. That in seeking to have the order of protection dropped, the Prosecutor threatened to have her children taken away and her put in jail if she didn't stand by the statement, and went on to offer her money for her testimony (witness fee multiplied for a week). Due to her 'wrong' [AKA, mostly truthful] testimony; ADA asked about the bones broken by Jim when she never broke any bones ect and she said she was never in fear ect; she is presently quite angry she never got the money the ADA promised.

Motion to revoke his license also says he is mentally ill; citing the evaluation done at the prosecutor's request; the one saying he is fine, was the victim of an assault, and is well adjusted ect but receiving counseling as a reaction to his becoming disabled; suffering reactive, not disorder, symptoms of anxiety and depression.  When called about the people's interpretation of his evaluation, the Dr. asked if they actually read it as he is quite specific that there is nothing wrong with the guy and no reason he shouldn't continue to have his guns.  

And Finally that he failed to disclose an arrest in his application; his application mentioning the sealed record of his teenage arrest where a charge of assault was reduced to a violation without fine.  The application packet having the arrest referenced by number and charge, and the Detective writing about his review of that arrest in the letter to the Judge for him getting his pistol permit.  

Oh; and almost forgot, the motion to revoke also said due to his involvement with Domestic Violence; again referencing the case where the reality is the husband being beaten up by the parolee boy friend.  

Update on the police department; their being disbanded was overruled by a judge saying the Village failed to do an environmental impact study.  This being a bit of an absurdity as the building and service would simply have been taken over by the county law enforcement making it a mere change in personnel.  It is unknown if the disbanding and replacement will simply be done again following such a report or if that ruling will be challenged.  Said ruling not being released by the Court; I can't speak on any particulars as none are available to the public.  I just read the papers too.  Real fun is that the village police went door to door in uniforms, badges on and pistols at hips, instructing residents to sign a petition to keep them and not taking no for an answer.  
« Last Edit: January 04, 2018, 01:04:06 PM by adively »
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HeroHog

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Re: Top 25 Defensive Gun Uses Of 2017
« Reply #12 on: January 03, 2018, 08:46:57 PM »
<mad as hell>Our "Justice"/judicial system is SO busted, corrupt and just plain wrong it absolutely INFURIATES me!</mad as hell>

I've been a witness in a criminal trial. I've been falsely charged with a crime I didn't commit and had to pay a great deal (to us) to defend and watched as the one who was the cause of it all was never even charged and threatened to sue when my case was thrown out a few seconds after the judge reviewed the case (I was rear ended on the interstate initiating a chain reaction pile-up. I was the ONLY one charged, reckless driving). I have a friend serving time for a "crime" he wasn't guilty of involving BitCoin.

I'm beginning to think anarchy might not be all that bad... :mad:  :old:
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