Author Topic: Online retailer with massive attitude problem  (Read 3907 times)

Ezekiel

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Re: Online retailer with massive attitude problem
« Reply #25 on: January 23, 2007, 04:34:07 AM »
There's a flip side to every argument.

I prefer to keep my rights/licenses private, make judicious decisions about thier use/display, and -- generally -- not be the protagonist in situations where merely avoiding conflict is the better part of valor.

There is NO WAY to walk up to a business and report that, "I'm not coming in unless I can do so strapped," without looking like (and being) an alarmist heel.  Just don't use their services.

Such is my choice.

You never fail to amuse.  Wow.   shocked
Zeke

Perd Hapley

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Re: Online retailer with massive attitude problem
« Reply #26 on: January 23, 2007, 05:15:43 AM »
You're so right, Ezekiel.  Sharing your opinion on serious issues with others is completely useless and only makes one look like an alarmist jerk.  After all, carrying a gun is all about my needs, isn't it?  Wait a minute.  It is?  So confused.
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Ex-MA Hole

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Re: Online retailer with massive attitude problem
« Reply #27 on: January 23, 2007, 05:21:06 AM »
Within Thor's post is an ironic statement-

In the article, the rep from the mat company indicates that the employee that sent the email has been fired.

When I ran a search on the company in the BBB, it shows 1 employee....

WTF?
One day at a time.

Thor

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Re: Online retailer with massive attitude problem
« Reply #28 on: January 23, 2007, 09:54:35 AM »
Ex, yeah, I had considered/wondered just how many "employees" this company might have had. I DID run across another article suggesting that the company was bigger than one might have thought.

Quote
E-mail to soldier spurs outrage
Military supporters bombard West Allis company with messages; fears for safety arise
By ANNYSA JOHNSON
anjohnson@journalsentinel.com
Posted: Jan. 22, 2007

What began as a brief e-mail exchange between a U.S. soldier in Iraq and a Wisconsin-based online retailer has erupted into an international incident that has pitted military supporters against free speech advocates and threatens to shut down the local company.

We would NEVER ship to Iraq. If you were sensible, you and your troops would pull out of Iraq.

- Bargain Suppliers employee

If you look at the polls, his opinion is reflected by a majority of Americans
now.

- Othman Atta,,
Islamic Society of Milwaukee

Bargain Suppliers of West Allis said its discount-mats.com Web site had to be taken down Monday to address the thousands of e-mails it's received since news of the exchange - in which an employee voiced opposition to the war in Iraq - began circulating on the Internet last week.

Vice president Sajid Nasir said the employee is being "held accountable." But he said the incendiary and threatening nature of some of the e-mails - and voicemails left at the West Allis home that co-owner Faisal Khetani shares with his parents - have shaken the family.

"It's really getting out of control," said Nasir, who described the messages as "angry and vulgar."

"Our main concern is for the safety of the family. That's more important than the business," he said.

Repeated attempts to reach the Khetanis were unsuccessful.

The controversy exploded last week when a soldier, identifying himself as Sgt. Jason Hess of the Army's 1st Cavalry Division, sent an e-mail to discount-mats.com asking if it ships to military addresses.

Someone on the other end answered no, but went on to add that "even if we did, we would NEVER ship to Iraq. If you were sensible, you and your troops would pull out of Iraq."

A handful of Hess' friends got wind of the exchange, and soon it was ricocheting around the Internet - first on the Web site snopes.com, then on conservative and military forums and blogs - and has since made its way to talk radio.

Military supporters were outraged, calling it disrespectful and urging one another to flood the company with e-mails and calls.

Several posted Khetani's name, telephone number and address, which is also the business address, though Nasir insists it's for mailing purposes only.

Many of the messages invoked anti-Middle Eastern or anti-Muslim sentiment. (Khetani is Muslim, Nasir said.) Others vowed to shut the company down, and a few suggested they might make a personal visit.

"I think it's disgraceful," said Sgt. Maj. Dennis Webster, executive director of the First Cavalry Association in Copperas Cove, Texas, who learned of the e-mail exchange from a reporter.

"He's certainly entitled to his opinion. That's what soldiers defend," Webster said. "But there's a matter of respect. A young soldier isn't making those decisions. He's following orders."

Eduardo Briones, a Milwaukee native and retired Army sergeant who lives in Colorado Springs, Colo., said: "All he needed to say was no."

"I personally think we screwed up in the war, but that's not the fault of the soldiers. That's the fault of the politicians," he said.

Anti-war and free speech advocates were equally offended, by the widespread criticism of the company and the individual who responded to the soldier.

"This is a matter of free speech," said Julie Enslow, an organizer with Peace Action Wisconsin in Milwaukee. "It is totally irresponsible for radio stations and bloggers to attack a person for his personal political views."

Othman Atta, president of the Islamic Society of Milwaukee, said he would fault the worker for his lack of tact but defended his right to speak his mind.

"If you look at the polls, his opinion is reflected by a majority of Americans now," Atta said. "In the United States, everyone one is free to speak their opinion."

Atta appeared concerned that the controversy might fuel anti-Muslim and anti-Middle Eastern sentiment.

"Some people will look for any excuse to target people from the Middle East," he said.

A person identifying himself as Hess, who was reached via a military e-mail address, has agreed to an online interview but has yet to respond to a list of questions.

West Allis police said Monday that they were aware of the controversy.

"We're monitoring the situation, in case somebody decides to retaliate," Capt. Tom Kukowski said.

"But we're hoping people use good judgment."
http://www.jsonline.com/story/index.aspx?id=555527
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mfree

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Re: Online retailer with massive attitude problem
« Reply #29 on: January 23, 2007, 10:04:26 AM »
I love that article. It's full of "right to free speech" quotes but only so long as you agree with them, no argument allowed.

Perd Hapley

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Re: Online retailer with massive attitude problem
« Reply #30 on: January 23, 2007, 10:29:25 AM »
I love how the story of a reprehensible, disgusting mat-salesman can be spun into a piece on how war supporters and conservatives are violent bigots.  Can you identify all of the idiocies in the following passage?  I'll go first.

Quote
"This is a matter of free speech," said Julie Enslow, an organizer with Peace Action Wisconsin in Milwaukee. "It is totally irresponsible for radio stations and bloggers to attack a person for his personal political views."

Othman Atta, president of the Islamic Society of Milwaukee, said he would fault the worker for his lack of tact but defended his right to speak his mind.

"If you look at the polls, his opinion is reflected by a majority of Americans now," Atta said. "In the United States, everyone one is free to speak their opinion."

Atta appeared concerned that the controversy might fuel anti-Muslim and anti-Middle Eastern sentiment.

"Some people will look for any excuse to target people from the Middle East," he said.

1.  "This is a matter of free speech," said Julie Enslow...
It's NOT a free-speech issue.  It's an issue of disrespect to a soldier.  There is no serious question of his right to be a dirtbag.  Legal, yes.  Forgivable, barely. 

2.  "It is totally irresponsible for radio stations and bloggers to attack a person for his personal political views." 
Huh?  How so?

3.  "Othman Atta...said he would fault the worker for his lack of tact but defended his right to speak his mind."
Lack of tact?  How about the fact that he blamed an E-5 for invading Iraq?  Why defend his right to speak his mind?  Who's attacking it?

4.  "If you look at the polls, his opinion is reflected by a majority of Americans now," Atta said.
No, it's not.  A majority of Americans would not, if asked, refuse to sell mats or other items to our soldiers in Iraq, regardless what they thought of the war.   

5.  "Atta appeared concerned that the controversy might fuel anti-Muslim and anti-Middle Eastern sentiment."
So am I.  And who's fault is that?  Could it be the Muslim terrorists and snarky, anti-war Middle-Easterners in Wisconsin? 

6.  "Some people will look for any excuse to target people from the Middle East," he said.
Are you nuts?  Osama and Co. have given us all the excuses we need.  Thank Allah you don't wake up to burning crosses on your yard on a nightly basis.  We've been mighty nice to your kind.  How about acknowledging that?  How about blaming the terrorists that look like you for the fact that we're a little suspicious of you?
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wingnutx

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Re: Online retailer with massive attitude problem
« Reply #31 on: January 23, 2007, 10:42:29 AM »
Quote
"Some people will look for any excuse to target people from the Middle East," he said.

I blame Saturday Night Live

Brad Johnson

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Re: Online retailer with massive attitude problem
« Reply #32 on: January 23, 2007, 10:50:15 AM »
Quote
"Some people will look for any excuse to target people from the Middle East," he said.

Excuse? Who needs an excuse when you have 3000 reasons?

By the way, buddy, you live here now.  Defending the culture that brought us 9/11 does not endear you to anyone (except, of course, other dimwits like yourself who think the rest of us should have to conform to your wishes just because you have a pickle up your butt).

BRad
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Desertdog

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Re: Online retailer with massive attitude problem
« Reply #33 on: January 23, 2007, 11:26:13 AM »
Quote
"This is a matter of free speech," said Julie Enslow, an organizer with Peace Action Wisconsin in Milwaukee.
I agree, it is a matter of free speech.  As long as some idiot does not do anythng to the company, or owners, except send emails, or call, and not shop there, it is their free speech.

Maybe now some idiots that thought of giving that kind of response will think twice about it.

Thor

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Re: Online retailer with massive attitude problem
« Reply #34 on: January 25, 2007, 05:48:20 AM »
It appears that things with Faisal Khetani are not exactly what we're being told. Some of have surmised that already. For an interesting read, look here:

http://euphoricreality.com/2007/01/24/who-is-behind-the-muslim-websites/

There are a couple of other informative links on that page I linked to.
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Fudgieghost

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Re: Online retailer with massive attitude problem
« Reply #35 on: January 25, 2007, 08:09:13 AM »
Oy.  Once again the "free speech advocates" are getting confused between the freedom to express themselves and freedom from the consequences of those expressions.

Obviously, the individual(s) who made the aggravating statement is free to do so---the FBI did not detain or arrest him.  However he, and the company he worked for are NOT free from the consequences of that speech----i.e. angered people beseiging them with emails, etc.  That's FREE SPEECH also!

Obviously death or other types of physical harm threats are stupid, and possibly criminal, and should/can be dealt with as such. 

It's rather breathtaking that many people can't see the difference between the above---certainly the Dixie Chicks did not.  My guess is that they are not the "sharpest knives in the drawer. . ."

Perd Hapley

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Re: Online retailer with massive attitude problem
« Reply #36 on: January 25, 2007, 09:21:40 AM »
Quote
It's rather breathtaking that many people can't see the difference between the above---certainly the Dixie Chicks did not.  My guess is that they are not the "sharpest knives in the drawer. . ."
It's really not about intelligence.  If anything, smarter people are more likely to use the "free speech" defense.  It takes the focus off of what was said, and puts it on the "mean" tactics of the other side. 
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