Author Topic: History in the making, return of the USSR?  (Read 1670 times)

glockfan.45

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History in the making, return of the USSR?
« on: January 21, 2007, 07:15:04 PM »
Quote

Heres what fools do with Democracy  shocked

Quote
Venezuelan President Hugo Chavez on Sunday called the U.S. secretary of state "my little girl" and told Washington to "go to hell" after it questioned his plan to seek special powers to legislate by decree.
  
Chavez, a Cuba ally re-elected by a landslide in December, this month launched a campaign to consolidate power by nationalizing key industries, seeking expanded executive powers and pushing for unlimited presidential re-election.

A State Department spokesman on Friday described Chavez's proposal to allow presidents to rule by decree as "a bit odd" in a democracy.

"That is a sacrosanct legal authority of Venezuela. Go to hell, gringos! Go home! Go home!" Chavez said during his weekly Sunday broadcast. "We're free here, and every day we'll be more free."

Chavez also took on U.S. Secretary of State        Condoleezza Rice, who has described Chavez as a "negative force" in the region.

"Hi Condoleezza, how are you? You've forgotten about me, my little girl," said Chavez, who last year called        President George W. Bush "the devil" during a U.N. speech.

Venezuela's legislature this week is expected to give its final approval to the Enabling Law that would grant Chavez 18 months to decree legislation.

'CERTAINLY ... A BIT ODD'

The former soldier has said he would use the expanded powers to end the autonomy of the nation's central bank, create a national police force and boost state control over the nation's oil industry, which provides around 11 percent of U.S. oil imports.

State Department spokesman Tom Casey on Friday said the legislation by decree proposal was "a sovereign right of Venezuela but certainly ... a bit odd in terms of a democratic system."

Chavez also plans to alter the nation's constitution, rewritten in 1999 following a campaign Chavez himself led, to boost state control over the economy and remove a two-term limit for presidents.

He said he additionally plans to create new luxury taxes and raise Venezuela's rock-bottom gasoline prices -- currently around 13 cents per gallon -- and use the proceeds to finance community development groups.

Chavez in 2001 decreed a package of 40 laws that paved the way for a sweeping land reform measure and higher taxes for oil companies. The move galvanized the country's fledgling opposition, which accused Chavez of authoritarianism and staged a botched coup six months later.

The government says previous Venezuelan administrations used the Enabling Law, though opposition leaders say they reserved the law for emergency measures rather than divisive reforms.

Chavez frequently describes the United States as a decadent empire and has promised to roll back Washington's influence in Latin America.

The United States has criticized his close relationship with U.S. foes including Cuba,Iran and Syria, charging he has used the nation's oil wealth to meddle in the affairs of neighboring countries.


Chavez seems more and more like Stalin everyday, the level of control he is seeking should scare the hell out of Venezuelans. Many other South American countries seem to be sliding towards socialism. Would Venezuela play the role of Russia in a new USSR?
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K Frame

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Re: History in the making, return of the USSR?
« Reply #1 on: January 21, 2007, 07:25:58 PM »
No...

More analagous to Adolf Hitler in the 1930s when he sought from the Reichstag, and won, virtual dictatorial powers.

We all know what came next.

Chavez reminds me more and more of Hitler all the time.
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mountainclmbr

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Re: History in the making, return of the USSR?
« Reply #2 on: January 21, 2007, 07:32:28 PM »
Chavez reminds me of Schumer, Hillery et al. The left loved the soviet union under stalin and they love anything with similar goals today.
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Fly320s

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Re: History in the making, return of the USSR?
« Reply #3 on: January 22, 2007, 03:57:36 AM »
I think Mike is right.

Chavez, like Hitler, is telling the people what they want to hear and he's doing it with a flourish of showmanship.  Also, he's making the promise of a prosperous future for all Venezuelens and, largely based on timing, is starting to deliver on those promises.  Now Chavez is telling his people that he can deliver more wealth into their hands if only he is allowed to run the country without interference.  Looks like he's going to get it.

Calling Bush the devil, insulting the US at every turn, is the current fad in world politics.  Why, if some country isn't bashing the US, then they aren't part of the "in" countries.  So, Chavez jumps onboard, which is quite easy for him since he really does hate the US.  Two parts US bashing, two parts Venezuela nationalism, one part grandstanding makes a tasty dictator pop-tart.
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Furious Styles

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Re: History in the making, return of the USSR?
« Reply #4 on: January 22, 2007, 04:12:02 AM »
For an idea of how truly loopy Chavez is, check out this video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1QqKhRLvOOs

It's poorly translated to English subtitles, but you'll get the drift.

No, my sound was off. That's actually how poorly spoken Chavez is. Wow.

Perd Hapley

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Re: History in the making, return of the USSR?
« Reply #5 on: January 22, 2007, 04:38:03 AM »
Quote
a tasty dictator pop-tart
cheesy
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Furious Styles

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Re: History in the making, return of the USSR?
« Reply #6 on: January 22, 2007, 05:25:38 AM »
Yes, we loooooove Hugo!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R7B24wkcFLQ

Rata inmunda, Dirty rat
animal rastrero, despicable animal
escoria de la vida, vilest thing in life
adefecio mal hecho bastard attention whore

infra-humano, sub-human
espectro del infierno, spectre from hell
maldita sabandija, rotten vermin
cuanto daño me has hecho how much you've hurt me

alimaña, Rotter
culebra ponsoñosa, [something] snake
desecho de la vida, stuff between the treads on the soles of my shoes
te odio y te desprecio I hate you and I scorn you

rata de dos patas, Two-footed rat
te estoy hablando a ti, I'm talking to you
porque un bicho rastrero Because a despicable bug
aun siendo el mas maldito Even being the absolutely worst
comparado contigo Compared with you
se queda muy chiquito Winds up pretty small

maldita sanguijuela, Rotten leech
maldita cucaracha Rotten cockroach
que infectas donde picas You infect where it itches
que hieres y que matas You who wound and kill

alimaña,
culebra ponzoñosa,
desecho de la vida
te odio y te desprecio

rata de dos patas,
te estoy hablando a ti
porque un bicho rastrero
aun siendo el mas maldito
comparado contigo
se queda muy chiquito

¡ME ESTAS OYENDO INÚTIL HIENA DEL INFIERNO CUANTO TE ODIO Y TE DESPRECIO!
YOU LISTENING TO ME, YOU HYENA FROM HELL HOW MUCH I HATE AND DESPISE YOU?!

maldita sanguijuela,
maldita cucaracha,
que infectas donde picas,
que hieres y que matas

alimaña,
culebra ponsoñosa,
deshecho de la vida
te odio y te desprecio

rata de dos patas,
te estoy hablando a ti
porque un bicho rastrero
aun siendo el mas maldito
comparado contigo
se queda muy chiquito

glockfan.45

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Re: History in the making, return of the USSR?
« Reply #7 on: January 22, 2007, 05:53:42 AM »
Furious Styles could you translate that please?
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The Rabbi

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Re: History in the making, return of the USSR?
« Reply #8 on: January 22, 2007, 05:55:04 AM »
I get the definite sense Chavez is seriously mentally unbalanced.
But in the video he appeared to be saying "kum a her" which is Yiddish for "come here."
What a two bit tin pot piece of something.  Fidel at least had some style and education.
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Furious Styles

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Re: History in the making, return of the USSR?
« Reply #9 on: January 22, 2007, 06:26:50 AM »
Furious Styles could you translate that please?

Done. Didn't bother to translate the refrain twice.

roo_ster

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Re: History in the making, return of the USSR?
« Reply #10 on: January 22, 2007, 06:41:04 AM »
Chavez sounds like the perfect latin american idiot.

If crude oil goes below $35/bbl, I expect him to be deposed & killed for not delivering on his promised made on the assumption that $80/bbl oil would be the norm from now on.
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Furious Styles

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Re: History in the making, return of the USSR?
« Reply #11 on: January 22, 2007, 06:43:20 AM »
Chavez sounds like the perfect latin american idiot.


I have that book in Spanish! Excellent read ...

The real danger that Chavez represents is that he is supporting, at least morally, FARC in Colombia, as well as other destabilizing forces in the region.

Some reading on Chavez and FARC:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/4675485.stm

http://www.weeklystandard.com/Content/Public/Articles/000/000/005/177yckaw.asp?pg=1

http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/world/para/farc.htm

Cosmoline

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Re: History in the making, return of the USSR?
« Reply #12 on: January 22, 2007, 11:07:00 AM »
Chavez is just grooming himself to become the new Castro. 

CAnnoneer

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Re: History in the making, return of the USSR?
« Reply #13 on: January 24, 2007, 10:41:30 AM »
I think CIA should put a bullet through his little brain, before the deficits of an individual become the tragedies of a nation.

Perd Hapley

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Re: History in the making, return of the USSR?
« Reply #14 on: January 24, 2007, 11:48:17 AM »
CAnnoneer agrees with Pat Robertson. 

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Iapetus

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Re: History in the making, return of the USSR?
« Reply #15 on: January 24, 2007, 12:06:29 PM »
Is it really fair to compare Chavez to Hitler?  Has he really made clear his hatred of and desire to crush any Venezuelan ethnic groups?

Or to liquidate any economic classes, the way Stalin did?


As a counterbalance to the quoted article, here is one published in the Independent as few weeks ago.  (I know you guys don't think much of "European-style social democrats", as the author describes him, but there is a big gap between the likes of them and Hitler / Stalin).

http://comment.independent.co.uk/columnists_a_l/johann_hari/article2064733.ece

Quote
Johann Hari: The lies being told about Hugo Chavez
In his presidency, the proportion of Venezuela's GDP in the private sector has actually increased
Published: 11 December 2006

After the landslide victory comes the landslide of lies. Last week, Hugo Chavez was re-elected as President of Venezuela with 63 per cent of the vote - in an election declared "totally free and fair" by the international legal monitors, in a country where almost all of the media militantly opposes him.

I know the reason why. Her name is Maria Gonzalez. She is a lined, stooped 60 year-old grandmother I stumbled across last year in Barrio Neuva Tacagua, a fetid slum made of tin and mud in the high hills around Caracas. Maria grew up in a Venezuela that was dripping in oil wealth - but she never went to school and she never saw a doctor, because the country's petro-profits surged only into the bank accounts of the country's 25 richest families. Like the vast majority of Venezuelans, she was left to live and die in makeshift rust-and-cardboard shacks.

The day I met her, Maria wrote her name - in shaky handwriting, on a blackboard - for the first time in her life. Since Hugo Chavez was first elected, in another free and open election in 1998, Maria's world has begun to change. The new President began to use the country's oil wealth to build clinics where Maria could be treated free of charge, to subsidise food prices for the 70 per cent of Venezuelans who, like her, live in grinding, binding poverty, and to establish mass literacy programmes to teach his country - and a million Marias - how to read.

But somehow, somewhere in-between Maria's Venezuela and the newspapers and television screens of the US and Britain, Chavez undergoes a strange transformation. He ceases to be the most popular leader in the democratic world, and instead morphs into "a grotesque dictator", "like Hitler, Stalin or Mao".

Why is that? I know of only one persuasive explanation: these people reporting on Chavez are deeply ingrained in a political culture that views the rest of the world as a trough for corporate profit. When a developing-world regime funnels its profits to a handful of rich, they instinctively describe it as aiding "regional stability" and "democratic". But when a government uses its resource-riches for people who live in slums, they become suspect and "a threat to stability".

Let's go through the lies about Hugo Chavez one by one to see how this deception occurs:

Lie Number One: Chavez is a dictator. In reality, he has been chosen by the Venezuelan people in elections praised by the Carter Centre - the gold standard for election monitoring across the world - as "impressively open". This is hardly, as some critics who have never visited Venezuela jeer, because the people are pickled in Chavista propaganda. Pick up any of Venezuela's seven national newspapers any day and six of them will blast you with ferocious anti-Chavez invective. I have been to dictatorships - from Saddam Hussein's to Bashar al-Asad's - and they are nothing like this.

Lie Number Two: You can tell what Chavez is really like by looking at his allies. It is true Chavez has allied himself with some repellent dictatorships, praising Fidel Castro and - when I met up with him earlier this year - Robert Mugabe. Similarly, Tony Blair has allied himself with the torturers and murderers Vladimir Putin, the Chinese Communist Party and the House of Saud, and found praise for them all. Does this mean Britain is not a democracy? All democratic governments make unsavoury alliances but it does not reveal the true nature of the government in Caracas any more than in Westminster.

Lie Number Three: Chavez is suppressing human rights. This accusation is screamed loudly but with little evidence. Sometimes, the critics claim there are 200 political prisoners in Venezuela. Here's the reality. In 2002, an anti-democratic junta consisting of oil barons, media bosses and a few disgruntled generals kidnapped Hugo Chavez and announced they were taking over the country. They dissolved parliament and the courts, and announced a military lock-down on the streets, threatening to shoot anybody who came out. The Bush administration jumped in praising the coup with suspicious speed. With incredible courage, more than a million democrats descended from the barrios on to the streets around the Miraflores palace in Caracas, refusing to allow their elected President to be toppled. The soldiers holding Chavez joined the rebellion, and he was returned to power.

The only "political prisoners" in Venezuela - the so-called 200 - are the people who directly planned and participated in this attempt to destroy the country's democracy. If a foreign-funded group had kidnapped Tony Blair, trashed Parliament and the Old Bailey, and placed Britain under military curfew, would we imprison so few of the guilty?

Lie Number Four: Chavez is a communist who is determined to nationalise the whole of the country's economy. This is a Rumsfeldian lie that, ironically, is also reinforced by some of Chavez's old left supporters in Britain, such as that smirking Stalinist carbuncle George Galloway. In reality, Chavez is a European-style social democrat who believes in an active government that lifts up the poor alongside a vigorous market economy. He calls this "21st-century socialism". The tragedy is that in Latin America, under the heel of the IMF and US power, it takes a revolutionary to be a social democrat.

The evidence for this is pretty overwhelming. During Chavez's presidency, the proportion of Venezuela's GDP that is in the private sector has actually increased, and the Caracas stock exchange is at an all-time high. Chavez has not nationalised land; instead, he has redistributed it, breaking the vast unused landed estates of the rich into smaller packages for landless peasants. For all his rhetorical praise for Fidel Castro, Chavez's policies are much more like Abraham Lincoln's Homestead Act of 1862, which doled out the land in the West to poor people who wanted to settle there.

While market fundamentalism and communism deflate an economy - look at the history of Latin America for proof - mixed social democratic states work: Venezuela grew by 12 per cent last year. The anti-Chavez critics carp that this is due to soaring global petrol prices. How do they explain that in the 1970s when the oil price was - adjusted for inflation - just as high, the Venezuelan economy hardly grew at all?

No, it's not just the size of your oil money that counts, it's what you do with it. Chavez is using his petro-dollars to carry out the will of the people - to lift them out of their slums. A woman like Maria does not need to be tricked or intimidated into voting for Chavez. She is doing it for a simple reason: he has kept his promises to her. No amount of lies can bury this bright, shimmering reality.

j.hari@ independent.co.uk

The Rabbi

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Re: History in the making, return of the USSR?
« Reply #16 on: January 24, 2007, 12:47:28 PM »
CAnnoneer agrees with Pat Robertson. 

What are those strange birds flying above the pig farm? 

It's worse: I agree with CAnnoneer.  Best thing to happen to Venezuala and the US would be a dose of lead poisoning.
As for the Euros, yeahyeahyeah.  They loved Castro.  They loved Ortega.  There isnt an anti-American socialist revolutionary they don't love.
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Perd Hapley

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Re: History in the making, return of the USSR?
« Reply #17 on: January 24, 2007, 01:03:16 PM »
I think this is a good time to reveal that I am actually Pat Robertson.  I love talking to you guys, because it's so hard for a well-known person like me to really talk to regular people in person.

I'm sensing that one of you out there is struggling with back pain.  If you have faith, you can be healed.   angel
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Re: History in the making, return of the USSR?
« Reply #18 on: January 24, 2007, 07:42:26 PM »
Iapetus,
I see your point, I get tired of lefties calling Bush "Hitler" because it minimizes
the ruthlessness of the third reich.

However, while Chavez has not gone there yet, it's possible for el presidente for life to go there.
Politicians and bureaucrats are considered productive if they swarm the populace like a plague of locust, devouring all substance in their path and leaving a swath of destruction like a firestorm. The technical term is "bipartisanship".
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CAnnoneer

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Re: History in the making, return of the USSR?
« Reply #19 on: January 25, 2007, 09:35:41 AM »
CAnnoneer agrees with Pat Robertson. 

What are those strange birds flying above the pig farm? 

It is no surprise that a secularly motivated conservative agenda has a non-zero intersection with a religiously motivated conservative agenda. In fact, the opposite would be bizarre.

I change my recommendation from bullet through the brain (hard to find in Chavez) to a 40mm grenade up his upper or lower exhaust pipe. The explosion would not scatter any more excrement than he already does.

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Re: History in the making, return of the USSR?
« Reply #20 on: January 25, 2007, 11:07:00 AM »
I am not particular to the method.  I am more interested in results.
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Perd Hapley

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Re: History in the making, return of the USSR?
« Reply #21 on: January 25, 2007, 11:11:09 AM »
I am not particular to the method.  I am more interested in results.

  laugh grin laugh
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