Author Topic: Draft of a "newbie's guide to Linux" sort of thing...  (Read 2547 times)

JimMarch

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Draft of a "newbie's guide to Linux" sort of thing...
« on: January 21, 2007, 07:53:59 PM »
...in case anybody is curious about what a non-M$ life looks like...

--------

The State Of Linux Today

I'm a political activist who uses a laptop hard and heavy in a computer-related field. Before that I did over 15 years of IS tech support, sysadmin stuff, some techwriting.

Seven months ago despite every possible precaution, update and paid-for add-on security, my WinXP install got nailed by botnet Trojan. I spent about a day trying to disinfest it, no joy.

I scored an external USB hard disk (160gig on sale at Officemax for $100), backed up my data, reformatted the disk. But not with XP. With Linux  a particular distro (distribution) called Ubuntu version 6.06.

I haven't run Windows since. I figured others might benefit from a report back from the other side of the great divide where Microsoft fears we'll tread. With damned good reason.

I've written this with the non-geek in mind.

Linux: what is it, and some definitions:

UNIX is an operating system originally made for big iron - large scale multi-user computer systems. Which means right at it's core, it knows how to deal with more than one program going on at once and more than one user, whether it's at once or logging in at different times, but with individual settings and security privileges. UNIX traces it's roots back to 1969 and knew how to do all this well back into the 1970s. Across the 1990s, Sun Microsystems and others adapted a Graphical User Interface onto it similar to how the Macintosh and now MS-Windows looks and feels complete with mice, clicking at things, variable fonts, all that.

The UNIX, Macintosh and Windows operating systems are all closed source - meaning the companies that own the code know how it works, and they sell it to you, but the ability for either you or other companies to modify/customize that code is seriously limited.

In 1993 a very smart Finnish geek by the name of Linus Torvald (where we get the Li in Linux) began work on a functional clone of UNIX, with a similar feel and security-related features, but with a key difference: he gave away the code and did not directly copy prior UNIX code. He used a concept that had been mostly theoretical before, in which he said that anybody can copy or tweak his code to make their own derivatives, but in doing so they had to agree to also give away any code of their own that used his code as a starting point. This is the GNU Public License originally conceived at the Free Software Foundation. Hence you'll see the term GNU/Linux at times.

Within a few years, a few *thousand* geeks worldwide thought this was a jolly idea and all dove headlong into collectively building a complete, functional alternative to Microsoft's dominance.

Sidenote: as of the last few years, the Mac OS has changed to where it also has an underlying UNIX core. The Mac and Linux are now cousins to a point where most Linux software of note is also cut in a Mac version as the re-coding between the two is pretty minimal.

Once it was clear Linux was for real, a number of sizable companies realized they could get download of this borderline amateur stuff, clean it up some and produce operating systems and products faster that way than doing their own coding job from scratch - and while they'd be barred from selling Linux *derivative* code, they could make good money on *services* (and could sell add-on code just like you can sell programs for Windows). Red Hat was a pioneer but were joined by Novell and now *IBM* in this concept.

Full disclosure here: I'm about ready to start up a consulting biz helping people jump from Windows to Linux at a flat rate  installing the OS, moving their data, setting it all up, etc. But my intent isn't to spam. And if you suspect that's what I'm doing, you'll be dissuaded when you see the number of links I'm going to post to these various Linux pieces and resources at the end of this file...

Different groups of programmers (amateur or professional) produce different distributions of Linux. Let me give you a basic lay of the land discussing the distros I've played with so far and the pieces surrounding them:

Linux applications come in three forms: source code that you have to compile yourself (by now hardly ever needed, but doable by a non-geek able to follow directions), standard generic Linux applications meant to work on a broad variety of Linux variants, and Distro-specific packages set up to work correctly with a specific Linux variant. The latter are often easier to install than Windows apps are on Windows. And on top of those, there is a program called WINE (free version) or Crossover Office (a bit slicker at moderate cost) which allows *some* MS-Windows applications to work under Linux .

Gnome and KDE: these aren't distributions, but rather graphical overlays to the underlying Linux system. They're the two biggest Desktop Environments and they control first how your system will look and feel, and to a lesser degree what applications you can run: most major Linux programs can cope with either, but some programs are written for one or the other. Gnome is slightly more Macintosh like, KDE is a bit more Windows-ish, at least out of the box. So far my preference is Gnome and I'll discuss what's proven to be a big benefit later.

Debian Project: Debian is a group of just over 1,000 programmers, tech writers, artists and other project members who have no connection (as a group) to any company. They are one of the oldest distro producers out there, and when they mark a complete release as being stable, you can bet it is. However, they tend to go fairly long periods between releases, always over a year. At present their current release in the 3.x series is getting somewhat stale: the installer is a bit primitive with little automation and there's less support for the latest and greatest bits (application or operating system). They also release setups marked Unstable which contain newer, slicker software parts but said bits aren't fully tested. Debian is apparently close to finishing a new stable release (version 4.0) which is eagerly awaited and may be a contender for The Chosen One: the standardized Linux that eats major market share from Micro$oft. Due to it's history, it has more pre-canned packages available than any other Linux variant.

Ubuntu: this Linux distro is produced by a small South African company of 60 employees. They take the Debian Unstable branch and clean it up. What they end up with is very modern, slick, good looking and has probably THE easiest-to-use installer of any distro and of late. It can also use all the application packaging work that has been done for Debian, giving it a massive potential application base. It's been what a lot of Linux newbies jump to first, myself included. Version 6.06 (which means sixth month of 2006) code name Dapper Drake was excellent. But a few months later, 6.10 Edgy Eft turned out to be too edgy. Ubuntu runs the Gnome desktop, while the Kubuntu variant runs KDE.

OpenSuse: Novell corporation sells the Suse Linux distro (packaged with services and some Novell proprietary code) to corporations, but releases OpenSuse free to a sizeable community fan base which tweaks it a bit further. I jumped to this after Ubuntu 6.10 crashed a few times and found it very, very stable. It never crashed in the couple of months I ran it. However, for somebody like me who is constantly trying new programs and toys, I found it lacking due to the relatively crude software installer/update system. It's a viable choice for somebody wanting to just build a system, load good basic applications and then not screw around with it. But for grins'n'giggles I next tried:

Fedora Core 6: Fedora is the free-to-the-community version of the corporate Red Hat Linux distro, so in that sense it's similar to OpenSuse. In both cases a good-sized corporation is using the free version to generate goodwill among geeks while using said geeks to test out the latest, coolest bits. I've been running it now for over a month and with one big caveat I love it: it's software load/upgrade process is almost as good as the Debian/Ubuntu family tools, while it's ability to load generic Linux apps is unbeaten. While some Linux setups choke on programs not specifically customized for that distro, Fedora 6 snacks them down, burps and holds out it's plate for seconds. It too hasn't crashed on me once, and I pound on systems pretty heavily. But there's a snake in paradise: the installer is non-newbie-friendly on a good day, ghastly when things get rough. But hey, once it's running, it friggin' rocks...modern, plenty of auto-updates by the original brewers to keep it up to date, tweakable as hell yet perfectly newbie-compatible...once it's running!

Applications:

OpenOffice is a complete clone of the Microsoft Office application suite, with strong equivalents to Word, Excel, and Powerpoint. There's also a fair business graphics package (drawing for flow charts, org charts, etc.) and a modest database. The newest revision (2.1) is very, very good at interchanging documents with MS-Word, Excel and Powerpoint and improving in the database area (MS-Access). It runs on both Linux and Windows, so if you're curious, try it out on Windows and see if it can eat all your documents. If it digests them just fine, you can be assured that the OpenOffice for Linux is just as compatible and up-to-date.

Firefox is a web browser also well-known in the PC.

Email: there are many good Email programs for Linux that can take in all your old data from Microsoft Outlook or Outlook Express. Thunderbird, Evolution, Konquorer and others.

The GIMP: an oddly-named near-clone of Adobe Photoshop(!). It lacks features needed for professional-grade use (full color matching on the CMYK system for example) but 90% of all Photoshop home users it's all you need. And free is a damned sight better than $1,000 for Photoshop! Also available for Windows.

Many, MANY more, some just plain weird, many just plain good. Most free, some worth a bit of money. On my laptop right now I have a ton of free sound and video editing programs, some pretty good games, everything I need to read and *create* Acrobat PDF files and more. With very rare exceptions, you always spend far less in software costs under Linux than with Windows or Mac, to such a degree that it would more than offset the cost to have a geek like me come out and back up your Windows data, load and configure Linux and then bring your data back. AND connect your camera, printer, scanner...

Every program I've listed here is free except for Crossover Office (about $40).

Living With Linux:

I've completely swapped out my Linux installations several times. And I only have one computer. That sounds like a lot of struggle, but it actually wasn't. Here's why: Linux (like it's cousin UNIX) keeps all of it's directories and program configuration files in standard places. One of these is the home directory. My data files and program configuration files are stored in a standard fashion due to this sense of structure built into the system.

So here's what swapping distros looks like:

1) Go to the new distro site, download the new Linux as a series of CD image files.

2) Each big file gets burned to a CD and marked as to what it is.

3) Plug in external hard disk.

4) Copy the home directory on my laptop to the external hard disk.

5) Boot the laptop off of disk number one of new set of Linux distro disks and do the install.

6) Load the new Linux. Connect to the Internet with it and download the updates (let it cook for an hour, the first update you do usually takes a bit to let you catch up with all the latest goodies since the distro was set for release some months back...)

7) Tell it to go grab and load the various applications you want, straight off the Internet.

Cool Copy the home directory back off of that external hard disk.

And that's IT. Because all your various program configuration stuff including Email account setup, bookmarks, your files, your passwords in the web browser, your preferred layout stuff in the word processor, you touch NONE of that.

Because it was all organized properly in the home directory.

You flat cannot do that in Windows. There, if your operating system gets corrupted or infested or otherwise brain-dead, you have to both reload AND re-configure everything. It takes three times as long.

So far I know that this zero config distro swap works great when you're staying with Gnome from distro to distro. It *might* work with KDE, I don't know. I do suspect that jumping between Gnome and KDE could lead to issues  I've messed with KDE enough to know it's a bit off from Gnome convensions.

(continued next post...)

JimMarch

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Re: Draft of a "newbie's guide to Linux" sort of thing...
« Reply #1 on: January 21, 2007, 07:54:23 PM »
Other benefits to Linux:

Windows viruses, trojan horses, spyware, junkware, malware, etc. ad infinitum just cannot function under Linux.  Linux is *immune* to all the current Windows crapware and resistant to anything developed specifically for Linux (which at the moment is almost nothing bad).  Linux is a professional large scale operating system scaled down for home use.  Windows is a toy that has been scaled UP to grotesque proportions, until it's just about ready to pop.

Linux runs faster on lower-grade hardware than Windows does.

Security: when you operate a Linux computer, you're not doing so as administrator, but rather as a user who doesn't have the ability (the rights) to kill off the operating system.  In order to do anything even slightly risky, you have to put in a different password for the admin account.  So if you do get infested with something, the infestation only has the limited ability to do what you yourself can do...which does not include the ability to blow the system to kingdom come.

Finally, Linux is tough.  It resists breaking.  Remember how I said it started way back when and then a graphical user interface (or GUI) was grafted on later?  Well the GUI is the most complex part.  With Windows, if the GUI breaks, you have a doorstop instead of a computer.  With Linux, if the GUI breaks you revert to late-1980s tech, the command line, which ain't fun but can do ALL of the following and more:

* Connect to the Internet.

* Load new software.

* Re-configure the GUI so it goes live.

* Worst case, plug in an external hard disk or network connection and BACK UP YOUR DATA!

* There is even a text-only web browser if you need to go read instructions on how to get your system back fully alive Smiley.

In other words, even if 3/4ths of the thing goes belly-up, you (or at least a hired geek) can do significant things to get it live again and/or salvage data.  When all else goes completely to hell this can save your butt.  Microsoft's equivalent state is the infamous blue screen of death deer in the headlights crash and burn goodbye Charlie you're screwed power off and pray it comes back.

One of the Fedora installs I did for a friend went shaky  the GUI wouldn't start.  A quick search of the Fedora support forum showed that his video card was extra-weird and needed different software.  I was able to get to the command line, connect to an online source for the video card driver software he needed, load it, edit the GUI configuration file so it would use the new code and do a reboot  and bingo, we jumped from 1988 text-only tech to 2006 with the stroke of a power button Smiley.

It's like...well, a hunting analogy would be, Windows is like a small graceful deer.  Shoot it with a 22 and it'll daintily fall over dead.  Linux is like a wild boar: mess it up so bad it's like multiple 12ga magnum slugs and it'll snort and shake off enough of the hit to keep staggering around Smiley

SO WHAT SHOULD YOU DO!?

Sick'n'tired of Windows?  Fed up with the costs, crashes, viruses, problems?

First step, figure out what documents you have.  Most people will have Word/Excel  download PC OpenOffice and test that out.  Email, take it for granted you can convert.  Web browsing, that's covered.  Even if you have to deal with a website that requires Microsoft's web browser, that free WINE emulator allows Microsoft's own browser code to work under Linux!  It'll be about 20% slower, but on anything even slightly decent (700mHz CPU with 512megs RAM) it'll be very functional.

Hardware Requirements:

I'm assuming you want a full featured distro instead of something stripped down, and want respectable multimedia: music playback, DVD player, YouTube and Google Video, CD burning and the like.

A 500mHz CPU with 512megs RAM will do fairly well.  If you double either of those specs (either a 1gHz CPU or a gig of RAM) you'll have a very healthy machine, desktop or laptop.  Laptop support is good except that some WiFi interface vendors have refused to play Linuxball  worst case you'll spend $50 on a different card.  If you have a modern 3D video card with 64megs RAM or more you'll get eye candy options involving moving and/or translucent windows much like the latest MacOS or Vista, but it's not critical.  A good complete install can be done to a 20gig drive and smaller yet can be very functional.  But it'll support disks to as big as you want to go.

(There are distros made for lesser machines such as Puppy Linux and (I kid you not) Damned Small Linux that can work on real dinosaurs, 486s and stuff - but more technical experience is required to run these stripped-down variants.  Not recommended for a newbie.)

Backups: to play with Linux, you need to be able to do serious backups.  The way to go is an external USB hard disk.  A 200 to 250gig external drive with it's own little chassis will cost about $150.  Drives as big as 500megs are available.  If you're unsure about the brand, stick with Seagate or Western Digital.

You also want to make sure your computer (laptop or desktop) has USB ports that meet the Version 2 spec (USB2) as these are much faster than USB1.  Backing up a fast hard disk through a slow port will take forever.  USB2 add-on ports for a desktop will run less than $25; the same for a laptop (with a PCMCIA slot) will run $50/$60.  In the latter case you'll only have to add the ports when you connect a drive.

This stuff isn't a Linux cost as you should be doing backups regardless!  That said, to install Linux you have to either re-format the drive or set your computer to dual boot where both Windows and Linux operating systems are loaded on different portions of the same drive.  This sometimes (read: rarely) goes bad and the Linux install nukes the Windows install.  Ooops.  If you didn't have a full disk copy, you're not going to be pleased in that event.

Finally, as to hardware, you must have an Internet connection faster than a dial-up modem.  Free software means doesn't come in a box, you download it across the Internet.  The amount of downloading would be far too slow over a dial-up modem, period, end of discussion.

When I start doing pro installs, I'll be requiring the user own an external hard disk with free space sufficient for a total backup, and a fast connection.  If they'll go that far, I would in turn guarantee no data loss unlike the rapidly-becoming-infamous Geek Squad.

LINKS AND RESOURCES:

Fedora:

http://fedora.redhat.com - main page, downloads, history, about the project...

http://www.fedoraforum.org - Fedora community forums

http://www.gagme.com/greg/linux/fc6-tips.php  an excellent Fedora tuning and tweaking guide

I'm doing some free installs for friends to build my skills and I'm focusing on Fedora.  It has a lot of merit for a standard pro install.

OpenSuse:

http://www.opensuse.org

http://www.suseforums.net

Debian:

http://www.debian.org

http://forums.debian.net

http://forums.debian.net/viewforum.php?f=19&sid=d7618a92af236b028c8c00e02b9eafe1  this is where you go to monitor progress on Debian 4.0 (codeword Etch).  People are already running pre-release sets but what you want is code marked stable and Etch 4.0.  If you go to the first Debian link of these three, you'll see that the current official release (stable) is 3.1.  4.0/Etch is due...well any day now, almost certainly 1st quarter of '07.  It will be worth a look but remember, always give it a week or more and look at what early adopters are saying on the distro's support forums.

Ubuntu:

http://www.ubuntu.com - also due soon (around April '07) is the next Ubuntu, codename Feisty Fawn.  Fiesty is supposed to address the stability issues from the unfortunate Edgy, add the latest and greatest but also make a departure from most distros: included full multimedia support.  Let me explain that part.  In the Fedora links section I included a tuning guide - similar exist for almost all distros.  The tuning allows throwing things on that are available free as in no cost, but are NOT free as in the source code is available.  These closed-source pieces such as MP3 support, Adobe Flash Player and more are controversial in the Linux community but to aid newbie first-time installers, Fiesty is going to include the goodies right off the bat.  (Then again, I can add the goodies to the others in about 15 minutes flat so...that alone won't be a good reason to jump to Feisty unless it otherwise solves the stability issues.)

Major Applications (all are Windows/Linux dual, most are Mac too):

The GIMP Photoshopoid:
http://www.gimp.org

OpenOffice (MS-Office clone):
http://www.openoffice.org

FireFox web browser, Thunderbird Email and many other cool bits for Mac, Windows and Linux:
http://www.mozilla.org

Adobe Flash player to get YouTube, Google Video and the like running the same version as the Windows variant finally:
http://www.adobe.com/shockwave/download/alternates

Adobe PDF files are handled four ways: there is an open-source free PDF reader, there is Adobe's free reader that's bulkier and slower but has better search functions, there is the ability to write advanced PDF files in all of the OpenOffice components and finally there is the Cups-PDF application to make ALL Linux apps able to write at least simple PDFs.  All of these are widely available for Linux at no cost.

Linux Hardware Support Databases:

There are a variety of websites that report which hardware worked with which versions of Linux.  The three most important are:

http://www.linux-laptop.net - a listing of which laptops worked with which distros and versions of Linux, with glitch reports as appropriate.  Laptop support has generally improved in the last year or so to a point where this isn't quite as crucial, but it can still be useful.

http://www.freestandards.org/en/OpenPrinting  this database can look up which model printers either work or don't with Linux, what glitches are present (if any) and most importantly, where to download the correct driver.  It is VERY common for a given make and model printer to work with a driver originally meant for another printer, either of the same make or even in some cases a whole 'nuther brand.  This database sorts all that out.  So far it's been 100% accurate in my experience.

http://users.linpro.no/janl/hardware/wifi.html  this page is a good start at sorting out which WiFi cards (or rather, chipsets) work under Linux.  Linux and WiFi is a minor mess.  To save money, the WiFi manufacturers have made cards and other WiFi devices that have no internal brainpower of their own.  Instead, a program loaded at the PC loads all of the card's smarts, without which the card can't operate.  So when you buy the card and hold it in your hand, it is literally brain-dead until the card manufacturer's software is loaded into it just before each use  all too often exclusively via a Windows application.  Ooops.  It's not all grim as some cards still have brains in hardware while others can have the brains loaded under Linux.  Sites like this and others show you which do and don't, and which techniques turn the card on.  You still may be best off with geeky setup help the first time through.

Conclusion: is it worth it?

My answer is yes.  Without question.  My laptop is no longer vulnerable to some half-wit half-geek nephew of a Ukranian mobster.  I like that, a lot.  I like having control over this thing instead of giving  Microsoft, McAfee or God help us all AOL my total belly-up submission.  I like how tough it is, how my data is protected yet I can swap documents with the remaining Windows slaves at will.  I even like the quirky humor found scattered through the freeware community  you've seen software Wizards that help you set things up in Windows?  Sure.  But I'll bet you've never seen such a thing referred to as a Druid.

Oh, and did I mention it's free?

cosine

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Re: Draft of a "newbie's guide to Linux" sort of thing...
« Reply #2 on: January 21, 2007, 08:31:47 PM »
Nice write-up/basic overview. Very helpful.

Tagged so I don't lose it.
Andy

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Re: Draft of a "newbie's guide to Linux" sort of thing...
« Reply #3 on: January 21, 2007, 09:17:55 PM »
welcome to thr btw Jim, how are things going?........oop's I meant to say APS!.......i
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JimMarch

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Re: Draft of a "newbie's guide to Linux" sort of thing...
« Reply #4 on: January 21, 2007, 09:44:37 PM »
Eh.  Not TOO bad.  Doing election protection stuff, have to hang out with Democrats a lot  cheesy.

The good news is, Arizona Democrats ain't that bad, not at ALL like California variants.  Hell, the Democrats hereabouts are better than most California Republicans  rolleyes.

It's funny.  They claim that Arizona's "Clean Elections" laws have let people run for state office who don't have a lot of money.  At the same time, it's limited campaign contributions to candidates, but more can go to parties.  The net result is that the AZ Dems at least aren't as dominated by big money as they were.  They seem to think that 10 years ago, the party was dominated by a few upper income types, now it's dominated by an army of little guys.  Who are very politically radical in some ways, a lot of "GET OUT OF IRAQ" types.  Heck, I don't even know what exactly to think on that...part of me says "yeah", part says "if we pull out it'll look like a giant pizza with the toppings ripped off in less than a week".

Anyways.  The California kind were a bunch of two-faced jerks.  To win election they need huge money and they whore out to anybody paying...but to cover that they jump on board every neo-hippie dumb-as-nails concept that creeps in the door, including of course massive gun control.  They KNOW it's stupid but they need distractions from taking in big money from all kinds of shaky sources.

The AZ dems I'm dealing with, with a few exceptions of course, really believe 100% of what they're saying.  Are they always right?  Hell no.  But they're not playing "distraction politics" and they're fundamentally respectable.  I've yet to find any as truly loathesome as Don Perata, Willie Brown, or any as red-lefty radical as John Burton or Jackie Goldberg.

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Re: Draft of a "newbie's guide to Linux" sort of thing...
« Reply #5 on: January 22, 2007, 05:21:59 AM »
Jim:

Good write-up.  I hope you succeed in your venture.

Linux does have anti-virus software.  Usually it comes in two flavors: AV that scans email for Windows viruses (when your mail server is running linux) and AV that is similar to a Windows AV tools.  Even though the liklihood of infection is small & the consequences of infection (given a properly configured box) are minor, some folks just want it.

We use clamav on our boxes that Uncle Sam says we must have linux AV.  It is unobtrusive in the extreme.

I have all those links bookmarked with the exception of the gagme.com site.  I just muddled through figuring out how to install flash, mp3, & others.  Nice to see it in one place.

FWIW, a lot of companies in the US got started on Redhat products.  When Redhat spun off Fedora, some companies went with the now not-free ($$$) Redhat, but a lot use Fedora.

WiFi on linux has come a long way since last year, when I gave up on it. 
Regards,

roo_ster

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Iain

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Re: Draft of a "newbie's guide to Linux" sort of thing...
« Reply #6 on: January 22, 2007, 06:13:13 AM »
I thought wifi was going to be an absolute nightmare, but I managed it pretty simply as far back as Ubuntu Breezy. Luckily I had a card that was well supported, and all I had to do was enable it.

I know the Ubuntu wiki is marked pretty clearly on ubuntu.com, but perhaps a direct link would be good - wiki.ubuntu.com The other resource that ubuntu-philes are (rightly) proud of is the user community to be found at http://ubuntuforums.org/
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JimMarch

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Re: Draft of a "newbie's guide to Linux" sort of thing...
« Reply #7 on: January 22, 2007, 09:16:42 AM »
Somebody asked off-line about doing Linux under a dial-up Internet setup:

---

No, most dial-up accounts can be set up under Linux no problem.

The issue here is that downloading updates will...take a while.  Smiley

OK.  Let's take Fedora Core 6, which I'm playing with now.  It's been out almost three months or so.  I installed it a few days ago on a friend's spare rig, and once it was live it went to check for updates.  Found 174 Cheesy.  Took 30 minutes of downloading.

On a cable modem.

:scrutiny:

Then I updated OpenOffice from 2.0.4 to 2.1 - worth doing because 2.1 has a much easier time digesting M$ documents.  It's a 90meg download.  Which went a LOT faster than all those updates.

To create the five Fedora Core 6 CDs in the first place, I had to download five CD image files ("ISOs") - at 690megs each.

Are you getting the idea?

Now, there ARE some workarounds in some cases.  Fedora just last week made available a "re-spin" of the FC6 CDs containing all the newest updates since initial release.

http://forums.fedoraforum.org/showthread.php?t=145019

But for me, it's just as easy to use my initial set of FC6 CDs and do the 174+ updates because I'm not (yet) doing a huge number of installs.  And I'll end up with the same exact program as I'd get off the "re-spin" CDs.

---

There are some smaller distros that are crammed on a single CD.  One very recent version has a lot of the "latest and greatest" bits such as OpenOffice 2.1, FireFox2, etc and has been getting good reviews:

http://www.pclinuxos.com/page.php?7

Haven't tried it yet.  Basically they're trying to make a Linux box look a lot like a Windows system.  Browse around there and see what you think.  I may get it running on an available spare rig in the next day or two and report back, but that won't be enough heavy pounding to report on stability as I won't be putting it on my laptop - PCLinuxOS is limited in the number of funky add-ons it'll take - but it might be a good place for a newbie to start and learn while getting useful work done.

The four distros I've mentioned are ones I've lived with for over a month each and wrung them out pretty good.

---

For grins'n'giggles I just loaded both of the other desktop environments Fedora supports on my laptop: KDE and XFCE (in addition to Gnome already on there).  So when I boot it up and get to the login screen, I can either continue normally to the default Gnome or change it to one of the others just for that session or re-set the one I'm starting as the new default.  That part is easy.

XFCE is the most "alien" but it's considered faster than the others.  Looks OK, nothing too thrilling except that I can change background windows to be semi-transparent, which looks really cool Smiley.  My laptop's video card isn't hot enough for the latest "3D effects packages" in Gnome or KDE (Beryl or Compiz) so I can't get that trick in Gnome.  But other than that, no big deal.

KDE...I dunno, at least by default I don't see it as a strong "Windows Clone".  I'll mess with the "tweaked" KDE in PCLinuxOS and see if that changes anything.

There's a problem with doing this multi-desktop thing.  In Gnome's program menus I can now see all the various KDE add-on bits...some of which work in Gnome (to varying degrees) and some don't.  Same in KDE: I can see the Gnome bits.  Knowing the difference it's no big deal to me but this would drive a newbie nuts.  OK?  Stick with one or the other at first and my preference is at this point still Gnome.

---

One other distro I'm curious about is Sabayon:

http://www.sabayonlinux.org

They seem to be focused on major-grade eye candy with the latest video cards.  If you're running a slug system like my laptop :p with an old Radeon 7500 32meg video card, fuggedit.

RadioFreeSeaLab

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Re: Draft of a "newbie's guide to Linux" sort of thing...
« Reply #8 on: January 22, 2007, 09:21:27 AM »
I'm a Mac OS X user at home, and a Windows and Linux user at work.  We have a community computer lab that's running Xubuntu, the XFCE version if Ubuntu.  XCFE is my favorite Linux environment.  It's just fast and slick.

JimMarch

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Re: Draft of a "newbie's guide to Linux" sort of thing...
« Reply #9 on: January 22, 2007, 09:43:53 AM »
Yeah, it does look OK.   A wee bit strange but not bad Smiley.

One possible problem: there are a lot of "minor programs and utilities" developed for either Gnome or KDE that might be needed by some users.  For example, one of my testers wanted a home financial package and we found one for Gnome in the Fedora repositories that seemed pretty respectable that was able to eat Quicken data files...suggesting it could do at least a large subset of what Quicken can do.  And a brief scan of the KDE utilities shows equivelents over there.

That's just one example - other environment-specific apps can be seen scattered thoughout.

That may be a reason to avoid XFCE in some cases...

RadioFreeSeaLab

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Re: Draft of a "newbie's guide to Linux" sort of thing...
« Reply #10 on: January 22, 2007, 09:49:29 AM »
You can run Gnome and KDE apps on XFCE, it'll just ask you to install the Gnome and KDE graphics stuff, and then you're good to go.

Gewehr98

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Re: Draft of a "newbie's guide to Linux" sort of thing...
« Reply #11 on: January 22, 2007, 10:13:32 AM »
I've been running the "heavy" versions of Windows since NT 3.5, to include NT 4.0, Windows 2000 Professional, Windows XP Professional, and Windows Server 2003. 

In my sheltered little world, I really haven't noticed instability or crashes, and infections have been exceptionally rare.  I am, however, quite anal about firewalls, spyware, and virus protection. 

I've been toying with Linux since my early copies of Mandrake, and even keep a version of Knoppix around for my computer clients who have managed to infect or corrupt their Windows installations.  Knoppix is nice because the entire OS will run from the CD-ROM, I find it the ultimate get-out-of-trouble plan to save data when the OS is Tango Uniform.   My current experimental version of Linux is Debian 3.1. 

I like it.  It's fast, not as bloated as Windows, and very customizable. It loves dual and quad-processor workstations and servers, which is what I have here at home. It's been simply amazing with respect to the amount of new drivers and utilities that have allowed peripherals and systems to transition from Microsoft, but...

Since I took a second major as a graphics designer, I've been using Adobe Creative Suite, PC Quark, and a few other apps written solely for Windows.  I've played with WINE, and find it weak at best.  (It's a Win32 emulator, after all).  Likewise, my Brothers in Arms Earned in Blood remains playable only on my WinXP Pro IBM Intellistation M 6850.

The Corel Suite does run nicely on my dedicated Linux Dell Precision 420 box, and I enjoy working and tweaking with the system.  However, until the software vendors make their move to support the Linux side of the house, I'll stay with the bloated (and supported) Windows. Linux still needs to mature more and offer an incentive for the big names to hop on board - I'll give it a couple more years, but it'll happen.  In the meantime, regardless of the gloom and doom posted elsewhere, I've not had the plethora of problems other allude to, and find no need to force a migration on my home network here, that includes my new Dell Inspiron 6000 notebook.  Maybe if George W. Bush doesn't fix global warming and get us out of Iraq and Afghanistan, then my computers will be in trouble.  Otherwise, I ain't fixin' what ain't broken.  laugh
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JimMarch

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Re: Draft of a "newbie's guide to Linux" sort of thing...
« Reply #12 on: January 22, 2007, 10:35:29 AM »
Right, but...

Do y'all have ANY idea how many "gramma Millies" there are out there running a standard set of apps, who have no clue how to do even the most basic security updates and are just getting hammered by malware?

It's BAD, folks.  The infection rate for full-on botnet trojans is around 11% of all Windows boxes.  Add in spyware, junkadware, plain ol' psychotic data-destroyer virii, it's just ghastly.

I ran into one granny that had switched to firefox purely because IE had so many malicious add-ons that half the screen was eaten by junkware banner ads.  Turned out to have two medium-ugly viruses.  And didn't run ANY apps that aren't either supported or with very strong equivelents in Linux.

There are just scads of these people out there.  Tons.

"Oh but I can't sit down and learn a whole new operating system!"

If I was being blunt: "Why would you care, you have no idea how to use Windows NOW, what the hell is gonna be the difference?  You're going to have program icons for programs you already know, I'll make you a "my documents" folder as default just like now, I'll set it all up, you'll never know the freakin' difference..."

cheesy

Gotta be more polite than that but really, that's the situation...

Gewehr98

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Re: Draft of a "newbie's guide to Linux" sort of thing...
« Reply #13 on: January 22, 2007, 10:52:12 AM »
Jim, I'm very much aware of people out there who can't be bothered to do simple upkeep on their computer systems.

I've actually made good money on them, some of my former computer clients in Florida were of the opinion that if their office computers were bogging down, it was time to buy new machines because the old ones were full or obsolete.  I ended up with a good clientele list when I left, consisting of real estate offices more than happy to pay whatever I asked to get their systems running again after an agent connected his AOL/Kazaa/LimeWire infected laptop to their office networks.  I could've sold them all sorts of new computers and operating system substitutes, but instead disinfected their network, installed Norton Antivirus Corporate Edition, made certain their Linksys/D-Link hardware firewalls were running with wireless encryption on, and forced the independent agents with individual laptops to run proper anti-malware software or else they were not allowed to access the office network. Those that refused weren't given WEP passwords, it was that simple.

My parents are of the "Grandma Millie" variety - they just bought their first Dell PC a year or so ago.  They get by quite well with just a dialup ISP, and every time I'm over to their farm, I make it a point to do a system checkup. Were their machine to bog down or get an infection, I'm sure the first thing they'd do is consider buying another one and donating the earlier system to Saint Vincent dePaul or Goodwill. 

That's your target market for Linux, as you stated in not so many words.  But let's not forget that some of us really don't have problems with Windows (other than it's bloated and inefficient compared to well-written code like Unix and Linux) and are more than capable of keeping a clean running system.  Wink 
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Iain

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Re: Draft of a "newbie's guide to Linux" sort of thing...
« Reply #14 on: January 22, 2007, 11:42:45 AM »
This is where the debates kick off from.

I use XP and I use Ubuntu. A friend of mine sneers at me for not using 'proper' linux and only being ever so vaguely command prompt capable. Don't really care, I just want my computer to work, but for a lot of people that means MS. No problems with that, I put in quite a bit of work to get Ubuntu to the point where it 'just worked', several reinstalls and so on. I consider that time an investment, but a lot of people won't.

In the end what will probably end my use of MS at home on any regular basis will be the day when I pretty much have to upgrade to Vista. I have no preconceptions or prejudices about what Vista is or does, I'm not anti-MS, I'll just weigh up the benefits of a free, highly customisable linux distro that does nearly everything I could want against the cost of Vista.
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JimMarch

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Re: Draft of a "newbie's guide to Linux" sort of thing...
« Reply #15 on: January 22, 2007, 01:14:40 PM »
Cost.  Yeah.  Don't get me started Smiley.

I'm finding that a few of these "gramma Millies" have already loaded OpenOffice simply because MS-Office is too expensive.  One I came across had been resigned to sticking with their MS-Works for their own documents but every time they got a DOC or XLS attachment they were SOL.  I downloaded OO2.1, connected it to their DOC, XLS and PPT file types and for the next hour I heard squeals of glee from the next room as they went back through old EMails and got "the whole scoop".  Just as a document READER OpenOffice was a Godsend.

drewtam

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Re: Draft of a "newbie's guide to Linux" sort of thing...
« Reply #16 on: January 22, 2007, 04:14:24 PM »
Thanks for posting this. I am taking a good hard look at Linux now, since my system ready for a reinstall.

The one thing that I have read is that there is very little market for games, and I do like my Americas Army, BF2, IL2, Homeworld, Simcity, etc.
Can Linux support these?


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JimMarch

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Re: Draft of a "newbie's guide to Linux" sort of thing...
« Reply #17 on: January 22, 2007, 04:42:44 PM »
Some games work with the emulators such as Wine but...it's mostly grim.

What I'd do if I had more disk space is to run dual-boot, do everything serious in Linux, boot to Windows for games.

As it is, with a 60gig boot drive that's not practical.  I have a 40gig extra laptop-sized hard disk with XP on it that I swap out sometimes - I don't connect to the 'net at ALL with it, I just use it to test voting system software, MS-Access databases, stuff like that.

There's a few good games native to Linux.  Battle for Wesnoth is just an awesome strategy game...simple, but with a killer AI and lots of user-created scenarios.

But again: the people who are getting hammered the worst by malware aren't the gamers, as they tend to be more technically competent.  It's "granny Millie"...

CNYCacher

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Re: Draft of a "newbie's guide to Linux" sort of thing...
« Reply #18 on: January 23, 2007, 12:17:19 PM »
I read through half way so far.

If you want to really crank your brain on the whole upgrade thing, on your next re-install, create a seperate partition to mount on /home.  Then you can do re-installs without the external HD, just don't reformat that home partition, and make sure to set it to mount on /home for your new distro.

Mate that external HD to a Knoppix CD and you will be loving life!  Linux to go!

Good writeup overall so far!


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JimMarch

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Re: Draft of a "newbie's guide to Linux" sort of thing...
« Reply #19 on: January 23, 2007, 02:52:54 PM »
Nice trick IF you have the disk space available.  Problem is, with 60gig as my main drive right now, I can't completely predict what I'm going to spend on apps and what on data.  So, a single partition makes more sense.

The other thing is, I'm not sure I'd 100% trust some of the experimental partitioners out there to THAT degree.  Smiley  Every once in a while these things nuke somebody's Windows partition when trying to set up dual boot.

If I'm going to take responsibility for somebody's data, I'd rather have it backed up to another drive.  Maybe that's just me, but...

---

The other thing I'm hearing from some of these "grannies" is that previous techs they've dealt with have not been the least bit careful about making sure it's obvious they're not stealing data while there.

When I show up, if I want to refer to my own machine and the Internet for information or something, I hook up via my cellphone-signal connection, rather than tying into their home network.  I don't stick their drives on my machine, or mine on theirs.  And if I want to test-print something, I ask before opening a document in MS-Word or the like.  When I leave, it's not just that I haven't stolen anything, it's that it's OBVIOUS I haven't.  If they get an identity theft issue of any sort, they'll know it wasn't me.

And I know why I'm thinking this way: this is how elections departments and voting machine vendors need to act, but don't.

zahc

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Re: Draft of a "newbie's guide to Linux" sort of thing...
« Reply #20 on: January 24, 2007, 11:39:16 AM »
I'm thinking about trying ubuntu. Two things I'm wondering about, is support for 1. Dvorak keyboard layout 2. Japanese input and most importantly 3. Japanese input with Dvorak layout. It took a registry edit to enable this in windows.
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Iain

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Re: Draft of a "newbie's guide to Linux" sort of thing...
« Reply #21 on: January 24, 2007, 11:50:26 AM »
Hate to be this guy zahc - try the wiki I linked to. I think support exists for multiple languages but it's not an area I know anything about. They seem to be all about all-inclusiveness, I'd be surprised if serious efforts hadn't been made or aren't being made.
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mtnbkr

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Re: Draft of a "newbie's guide to Linux" sort of thing...
« Reply #22 on: January 25, 2007, 01:29:37 AM »
Sorry, but this was too funny...



Chris

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Re: Draft of a "newbie's guide to Linux" sort of thing...
« Reply #23 on: January 25, 2007, 08:24:41 AM »
Great post Jim,
I started downloading Fedora on it's site and it was way too slow (40Kb/sec)

thanks for this post..
Quote
Now, there ARE some workarounds in some cases.  Fedora just last week made available a "re-spin" of the FC6 CDs containing all the newest updates since initial release.

http://forums.fedoraforum.org/showthread.php?t=145019

The respin torrent came down at 200Kb+ 
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