Author Topic: Goodbye, Boy Scouts  (Read 10111 times)

makattak

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Goodbye, Boy Scouts
« on: May 02, 2018, 09:52:15 AM »
https://apnews.com/d3efeda8ffb74b79b367fce426780d6f

As of today, there will no longer be any Boy Scouts. They will just be "Scouts".

Sad to see an organization so lose sight its intended purpose.

I wish the Ring had never come to me. I wish none of this had happened.

So do all who live to see such times. But that is not for them to decide. All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given to us. There are other forces at work in this world, Frodo, besides the will of evil. Bilbo was meant to find the Ring. In which case, you also were meant to have it. And that is an encouraging thought

Hawkmoon

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Re: Goodbye, Boy Scouts
« Reply #1 on: May 02, 2018, 10:01:20 AM »
Quote
The program for the older boys and girls will largely be divided along gender-lines, with single-sex units pursuing the same types of activities, earning the same array of merit badges and potentially having the same pathway to the coveted Eagle Scout award.

Surbaugh said that having separate units for boys and girls should alleviate concerns that girls joining the BSA for the first time might be at a disadvantage in seeking leadership opportunities.

I'm confused. I thought we stopped doing "separate but equal" several decades ago.
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Perd Hapley

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Re: Goodbye, Boy Scouts
« Reply #2 on: May 02, 2018, 11:20:23 AM »
I'm confused. I thought we stopped doing "separate but equal" several decades ago.


If the BSA had re-organized into two "separate but equal" branches a long time ago, I don't think I would have had a problem with it. To move away from gender-specificity in today's climate is much different. We can't have anything nice, if the Left is involved. Look at how they managed to ruin that whole black people getting equal rights/having a black president thing. It's almost as if we'd all be better off without them.
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T.O.M.

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Re: Goodbye, Boy Scouts
« Reply #3 on: May 02, 2018, 11:32:06 AM »
I'm confused. I thought we stopped doing "separate but equal" several decades ago.

It was ruled unconstitutional once, and will very likely be declared unconstitutional here as well...
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Kingcreek

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Re: Goodbye, Boy Scouts
« Reply #4 on: May 02, 2018, 12:22:43 PM »
Life was too simple when gender was something you were born with and couldn't just change whenever you felt like it.
What we have here is failure to communicate.

zxcvbob

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Re: Goodbye, Boy Scouts
« Reply #5 on: May 02, 2018, 12:25:35 PM »
Life was too simple when gender was something you were born with and couldn't just change whenever you felt like it.

Gender is a language construct, not a biological one.  Words have gender, people have sex.  The word was hijacked to blur meanings.
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Fly320s

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Re: Goodbye, Boy Scouts
« Reply #6 on: May 02, 2018, 04:39:57 PM »
  Words have gender, people have sex. 

Not as true for married people.
Islamic sex dolls.  Do they blow themselves up?

JN01

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Re: Goodbye, Boy Scouts
« Reply #7 on: May 02, 2018, 05:09:31 PM »
I'm confused. I thought we stopped doing "separate but equal" several decades ago.

Yeah, the SJWs will not stand for that.

Angel Eyes

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Re: Goodbye, Boy Scouts
« Reply #8 on: May 04, 2018, 06:27:16 PM »

"The slide rule is a pathway to many abilities some consider to be unnatural."
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AJ Dual

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Re: Goodbye, Boy Scouts
« Reply #9 on: May 06, 2018, 02:36:12 AM »
This is a big win for our side of the culture war. Girls have been participating in Cub Scouts and Boy Scouts for years now at the regional level. This is just acknowledging it at the BSA national level.  And of course, girls have been in the Sea Scouts, Adventure Scouting, and Explorers portion of the BSA for longer than I've been alive.

Sorry about everyone's butthurt that's not letting them see it.. Don't let the facts get in the way. Like having segregated girl only and boy only troops for those who want them.

This is like the Trump presidency, you may need to look at who the enemies are to know if you're on the right side of the issue or not.

The GSA is PISSED, and by default I'm for anything that makes that bunch of crusty NYC rad-fem lesbians that use the girls and cookies as a fundraising ploy angry.
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Angel Eyes

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Re: Goodbye, Boy Scouts
« Reply #10 on: May 06, 2018, 05:35:35 PM »

"The slide rule is a pathway to many abilities some consider to be unnatural."
                     - Darth Calculus

Scout26

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Re: Goodbye, Boy Scouts
« Reply #11 on: May 07, 2018, 12:24:07 AM »
I challenge the nay-sayers to go to any Cub Scout outing.  You''ll see the siblings (girls) there as well as the boys.   They are already there doing the same thing as their brothers (without the awards and recognition). Plus Venturing (14-21 year olds), Explorers (career focused Scouts like Police, Nursing, Firemen, etc), and Sea Scouts have all been Co-Ed since the 1960's. So this is really nothing new.

The difference is that each Chartering Organization (e.g. Kiwanis, Rotary, PTA, Lions, etc.) gets to decide whether or not to admit girls to their unit, or form a new "Girls Only" unit.    If they decide to allow girls, then there will be Girls Only Cub Scouts Dens (Dens are all kids in the same grade, there will be Boys  Dens and Girls Dens).  At the Troop Level, there will be Boys Patrols and Girls Patrols.  The only time they will be together will be for Pack/Troop Meetings and Outings.

This was done based on the overwhelming feedback the BSA got from Parents that would very interested in the having a program that includes the entire family.  Since the BSA has a very well tested and successful outdoor youth program that can be applied to both boys and girls, they would be inclined to sign-up their daughters.

And as previously mentioned the Rad-fem/leftist tilt of the GSA has turned many conservative parents off from having their daughters join.   Here;s the difference in programs in a nutshell.  Each group has a monthly magazine. Compare and Contrast:






  





* - The Scoutmaster for my son's Troop is married to Literature professor.  She teaches a class on Monday nights  Same night as the Troop's meeting.  Guess where their two pre-teen daughters are that night?  I can tell you that they are not auditing a class on Medieval French Poetry.
« Last Edit: May 09, 2018, 12:50:39 PM by Amy Schumer »
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freakazoid

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Re: Goodbye, Boy Scouts
« Reply #12 on: May 07, 2018, 12:30:51 AM »
And as previously mentioned the Rad-fem/leftist tilt of the GSA has turned many conservative parents off from having their daughters join.

The GSA has that?
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makattak

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Re: Goodbye, Boy Scouts
« Reply #13 on: May 07, 2018, 08:16:41 AM »
This is a big win for our side of the culture war. Girls have been participating in Cub Scouts and Boy Scouts for years now at the regional level. This is just acknowledging it at the BSA national level.  And of course, girls have been in the Sea Scouts, Adventure Scouting, and Explorers portion of the BSA for longer than I've been alive.

Sorry about everyone's butthurt that's not letting them see it.. Don't let the facts get in the way. Like having segregated girl only and boy only troops for those who want them.

This is like the Trump presidency, you may need to look at who the enemies are to know if you're on the right side of the issue or not.

The GSA is PISSED, and by default I'm for anything that makes that bunch of crusty NYC rad-fem lesbians that use the girls and cookies as a fundraising ploy angry.

Big win? I'm more than a little skeptical.

GSA is ALREADY dying. That the BSA is poaching the few girls that aren't interested in the lib-fest that GSA has become is really no big deal. GSA is going to die, and soon, anyway.

Instead, the BSA has completely lost the point of its charter. It's no surprise, though, after they caved on homosexuals in the scouts, which is a related issue.

The point of an organization that allows boys to learn and interact as boys without the problems and concerns that occur when the sexes are mixed. (This is ESPECIALLY important during the teen years.)

Boys need to learn how to be men without the added pressures, dynamics, and conflicts that the presence of girls necessarily brings. Boys act differently when girls are around. (And, I will assume the reverse is true.)

BSA was one of the few organizations that stuck to their founding principles, recognizing this. Sadly, it will not be strengthened by this move, and as a "killing blow" to GSA, it will eventually turn into a "killing blow" for the BSA. BSA is already pretty well feminized by the myriad of restrictions placed on boys in the past 20-30 years. This will now be increasingly the case as females have greater and greater influences on the future of the organization.

(Or are you going to tell me that BSA won't change at all from having their membership shift from vast majority male to a much closer ratio?)

I wish the Ring had never come to me. I wish none of this had happened.

So do all who live to see such times. But that is not for them to decide. All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given to us. There are other forces at work in this world, Frodo, besides the will of evil. Bilbo was meant to find the Ring. In which case, you also were meant to have it. And that is an encouraging thought

makattak

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Re: Goodbye, Boy Scouts
« Reply #14 on: May 09, 2018, 08:10:42 AM »
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/mormon-church-to-sever-its-105-year-old-ties-to-the-boy-scouts-at-end-of-2019/ar-AAwYPgf?OCID=ansmsnnews11

And this is another result of trying to have your cake and eat it to. (Yes, the Mormon church says it's not about all the changes the BSA has made in the last 10 years... but it's all about the changes that have been made and what they say about the BSA's future course.)
I wish the Ring had never come to me. I wish none of this had happened.

So do all who live to see such times. But that is not for them to decide. All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given to us. There are other forces at work in this world, Frodo, besides the will of evil. Bilbo was meant to find the Ring. In which case, you also were meant to have it. And that is an encouraging thought

Marnoot

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Re: Goodbye, Boy Scouts
« Reply #15 on: May 09, 2018, 09:58:52 AM »
The LDS church would have left BSA eventually anyway, due to the need for a unified program for LDS youth throughout the world. But I have no doubt that the changes in the BSA in the past decade accelerated the decision by at least a few years.

T.O.M.

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Re: Goodbye, Boy Scouts
« Reply #16 on: May 09, 2018, 11:09:43 AM »
The LDS church would have left BSA eventually anyway, due to the need for a unified program for LDS youth throughout the world. But I have no doubt that the changes in the BSA in the past decade accelerated the decision by at least a few years.

Agreed.  In talking with some LDS Scouters in the past, the BSA was convenient.  LDS wanted their own youth program, but no one was wanting to take the initiative and create one.  The changes to the BSA program in the last five years have pushed the LDS leadership to actually do what they've been talking about doing, and create their own youth program.  No doubt some LDS youth will stay in Scouting, going for their Eagle.  But, within a few years, BSA membership will drop.  Estimates from within BSA put it at a 20%-30% drop.  Of more concern though is that there will be a concurrent drop in funding/donations to BSA, as those LDS dollars go to their own program, and not to BSA.

I'm betting that there won't be a 150th anniversary celebration for Scouting.  Between changing interests in the youth, people fed up with the changes to the program, and the financial struggles, it will be dead and gone before 2060.
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brimic

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Re: Goodbye, Boy Scouts
« Reply #17 on: May 09, 2018, 12:18:14 PM »
This is a big win for our side of the culture war. Girls have been participating in Cub Scouts and Boy Scouts for years now at the regional level. This is just acknowledging it at the BSA national level.  And of course, girls have been in the Sea Scouts, Adventure Scouting, and Explorers portion of the BSA for longer than I've been alive.

Sorry about everyone's butthurt that's not letting them see it.. Don't let the facts get in the way. Like having segregated girl only and boy only troops for those who want them.

This is like the Trump presidency, you may need to look at who the enemies are to know if you're on the right side of the issue or not.

The GSA is PISSED, and by default I'm for anything that makes that bunch of crusty NYC rad-fem lesbians that use the girls and cookies as a fundraising ploy angry.

Yes.

My son dropped boy scouting shortly after he finished cub scouts- he's too heavily involved in sports to do much else. My younger daughter is nominally in Girl Scouts (its more of a social club for her and her peers than anything else). There is no comparison between the two organizations, I would absolutely support my daughter going BSA if she wanted to.
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cordex

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Re: Goodbye, Boy Scouts
« Reply #18 on: May 09, 2018, 02:32:33 PM »
The LDS church would have left BSA eventually anyway, due to the need for a unified program for LDS youth throughout the world. But I have no doubt that the changes in the BSA in the past decade accelerated the decision by at least a few years.
Do you know if the LDS youth program is open to non-LDS kids?

Hawkmoon

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Re: Goodbye, Boy Scouts
« Reply #19 on: May 09, 2018, 03:12:03 PM »
But, within a few years, BSA membership will drop.  Estimates from within BSA put it at a 20%-30% drop.  Of more concern though is that there will be a concurrent drop in funding/donations to BSA, as those LDS dollars go to their own program, and not to BSA.

I think a lot of troops are based in churches, too. If (when) the LDS cuts off their relationship with the BSA, there will probably be a number of troops looking for a home, and a number that simply cease to exist.
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brimic

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Re: Goodbye, Boy Scouts
« Reply #20 on: May 09, 2018, 04:27:20 PM »
Imagine the horror if the Young Men's Christian Association started taking female or non-Christian members. S.M.O.D. will have to act on our behalf, it would be our only hope.
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makattak

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Re: Goodbye, Boy Scouts
« Reply #21 on: May 09, 2018, 04:30:47 PM »
Imagine the horror if the Young Men's Christian Association started taking female or non-Christian members. S.M.O.D. will have to act on our behalf, it would be our only hope.

I'll bet that what would happen is that very quickly, it would no longer have many young men, men, or any focus whatsoever on being Christian.

Probably still have "association" going for it, so 1 out of 4 ain't bad.
I wish the Ring had never come to me. I wish none of this had happened.

So do all who live to see such times. But that is not for them to decide. All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given to us. There are other forces at work in this world, Frodo, besides the will of evil. Bilbo was meant to find the Ring. In which case, you also were meant to have it. And that is an encouraging thought

cordex

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Re: Goodbye, Boy Scouts
« Reply #22 on: May 09, 2018, 04:54:18 PM »
I'll bet that what would happen is that very quickly, it would no longer have many young men, men, or any focus whatsoever on being Christian.
Might be more fun to stay there, though.

Perd Hapley

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Re: Goodbye, Boy Scouts
« Reply #23 on: May 09, 2018, 05:05:02 PM »
I'll bet that what would happen is that very quickly, it would no longer have many young men, men, or any focus whatsoever on being Christian.

Probably still have "association" going for it, so 1 out of 4 ain't bad.

It doesn't have the "association," actually. Since they dropped the M, and the C, they only have the Y.

https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2010/jul/12/ymca-changes-its-logo-to-just-the-y/


I did a little research on the YMCA, a few years ago. They were originally meant to help young, urban men (and later, travelling railroad workers) to live moral lives, and avoid the temptations of drink, gambling, whore-mongering, etc. While the loss of religious emphasis, and sex-segregation didn't spell the end of the world, they are certainly not the same organization they used to be.
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Scout26

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Re: Goodbye, Boy Scouts
« Reply #24 on: May 09, 2018, 06:42:52 PM »
I think a lot of troops are based in churches, too. If (when) the LDS cuts off their relationship with the BSA, there will probably be a number of troops looking for a home, and a number that simply cease to exist.

LDS troops (and Packs) generally do not have non-LDS youth as members, simply because they heavily stress the Duty to God Aspect and it's LDS focused.

When the LDS pulls out, all those Troops and Packs will cease to exist as BSA units and simply become LDS Youth Group units.
Some days even my lucky rocketship underpants won't help.


Bring me my Broadsword and a clear understanding.
Get up to the roundhouse on the cliff-top standing.
Take women and children and bed them down.
Bless with a hard heart those that stand with me.
Bless the women and children who firm our hands.
Put our backs to the north wind.
Hold fast by the river.
Sweet memories to drive us on,
for the motherland.