6.8 SPC poised for big time!?

[makattak]

https://www.armytimes.com/news/your-army/2018/05/08/armys-next-squad-weapon-will-fire-a-never-before-seen-ammo-combination/

Reportedly, the new SAW for the Army is being considered in 6.8 SPC.

That's exciting in a lot of ways. First, I'll be happy the military is finally getting an improved caliber.

Second, the popularity and availability of 6.8 SPC ammo will likely skyrocket while the price out to go down.

I'm naturally a cynic, so my expectation is that the Army will once again reject the 6.8, but I still have hope.

[K Frame]

How many times now have we heard that the military is transitioning over to the nextest, bestest cartridge?

More than I can count.

[230RN]

Development[edit]

The 6.8mm SPC cartridge was designed to address the deficiencies of the terminal performance of the 5.56×45mm NATO cartridge currently in service with the U.S. Armed Forces.

Terry tries to stifle laugh.

[RoadKingLarry]

How many times now have we heard that the military is transitioning over to the nextest, bestest cartridge?

More than I can count.

Yeah, they really screwed the pooch when they dumped the .30-40 Krag cartridge, been downhill ever since.

[bedlamite]

I'm pretty sure if there are any changes, they will be based on politics, rather than practicality and usefulness.

[K Frame]

Yeah, they really screwed the pooch when they dumped the .30-40 Krag cartridge, been downhill ever since.

That pansy assed little sub caliber round? It couldn't hurt a fly!

If it ain't .50-70, it ain't *expletive deleted*it!

[cordex]

Okay guys, I'm going to let you in on an inside scoop I have.  The Army is guaranteed to be adopting the 6.8 SPC wholesale.

Source: I bought a 6.5 Grendel a few years ago.

[HankB]

Okay guys, I'm going to let you in on an inside scoop I have.  The Army is guaranteed to be adopting the 6.8 SPC wholesale.

Source: I bought a 6.5 Grendel a few years ago.

With a strong enough spring, you can make the SPC fit the Grendel chamber, can't you?

(With the resulting accordion pleats in the brass, case life for reloading might be a bit short.)

[Fly320s]

Okay guys, I'm going to let you in on an inside scoop I have.  The Army is guaranteed to be adopting the 6.8 SPC wholesale.

You're right.  I know because I built a .300Blk. 

I still have hope that the Army switches to 6.5CM for long range rifles.

[230RN]

Didn't da goobermink just order 4 or 5 billion rounds of 5.56 a couple of years ago?  I seem to recall a thread on that in APS about it.

Terry tries to stifle laugh.

[brimic]

The last one I heard was that some branch was adopting the 6.5 Creedmoor- which would be an even bigger deal.

[230RN]

Well, at least that will penetrate a whole 0.010" of paper fiber at 1000 yards in a moderate wind.

Terry tries to stifle laugh.

[HankB]

Will the .gov spend a lot of money to develop environmentally friendly "green" bullets they way they've been doing for 5.56?

[K Frame]

I have to admit, I always have to laugh when I read articles like this, with all of the breathy exhortations that this will FINALLY give our soldiers the Holy Grail of military equipment, THE ONE GUN, THE ONE AMMO, THE UNIVERSAL WEAPON SYSTEM!

The military has spent billions of dollars looking the one gun/ammo combination that will be all things and do all things.

The gun and ammo combined will be light, short, handy, low recoiling, easy to fire on automatic, AND powerful and long ranged at the same time.

Sigh.

[lupinus]

I will say I wouldn't mind 6.8 getting a nice little boost that would invite more parts and ammo availability at better prices. And 6.8 would seem well suited to keep the benefits of 5.56 while offering better punch.

But I'm also not going to hold my breath, not even a little bit.

Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk

[MechAg94]

I have to admit, I always have to laugh when I read articles like this, with all of the breathy exhortations that this will FINALLY give our soldiers the Holy Grail of military equipment, THE ONE GUN, THE ONE AMMO, THE UNIVERSAL WEAPON SYSTEM!

The military has spent billions of dollars looking the one gun/ammo combination that will be all things and do all things.

The gun and ammo combined will be light, short, handy, low recoiling, easy to fire on automatic, AND powerful and long ranged at the same time.

Sigh.

You forgot to include "one shot stop" in your list of qualities.  And that is where the "stifle a laugh" comment belongs IMO.  I have no issue with the military looking for more effective ammo, but that pipe dream has been around for a while and we never seem to quite get there.  Though I guess 5.56 does about as well as anything else.

I am curious about the benefits of 6.8 in a machine gun.  How much ammo capacity is available for the same weight and what is the change in effectiveness at range?  Also, is that ammo generally shipped loaded on belts so logistics would be similar?  How valuable is ammo compatibility with the other squad weapons?

[Brad Johnson]

They should just call it .270 Short and get it over with.

Brad

[K Frame]

"one shot stop."

That's where the powerful at long range comes in.

That's the biggest complaint about the 5.56 is that it lacks the ability to do much damage at longer ranges. Well duh.

The rational for the M16/5.56 combo was based largely on the US military experiences in World War II in that most combat was at ranges under 400 yards, where the 5.56 is still pretty effective.

But then, in the continuing quest for the HOLY UNIVERSAL WEAPON the military chopped almost 6 *expletive deleted*ing inches off the barrel length, and thus a shitpot load of velocity off the 5.56 bullet, resulting in huge hit on effective range. Still not a huge thing if your routinely engaging in combat at 400 yards or less, but then...

Gulf War I, then Gulf War II and Afghanistan where engagement ranges are often FAR past the 5.56's effective range.

Whut? You mean our HOLY UNIVERSAL WEAPON... is now LESS effective than the sandman's 7.62x39 at almost all distances? OMG!!!! We need squad designated marksmen with 7.62s!

I've never understood the military's reticence to use a blended weapons structure that would make units far more effective. That's sort of what they've got right now with the combination of 5.56 and 7.62 weapons.

But, logistics! Supply!

Yeah, it would make logistics and supply SLIGHTLY more complicated. But it would increase unit combat effectiveness significantly.

[RoadKingLarry]

I have to admit, I always have to laugh when I read articles like this, with all of the breathy exhortations that this will FINALLY give our soldiers the Holy Grail of military equipment, THE ONE GUN, THE ONE AMMO, THE UNIVERSAL WEAPON SYSTEM!

The military has spent billions of dollars looking the one gun/ammo combination that will be all things and do all things.

The gun and ammo combined will be light, short, handy, low recoiling, easy to fire on automatic, AND powerful and long ranged at the same time.

Sigh.

Don't forget "environmentally conscious"

[French G.]

Then there was the enhanced penetration bs where an overstabilized round that didn't fragment or expand zipped right through the people it was supposed to be killing.

[K Frame]

Then there was the enhanced penetration bs where an overstabilized round that didn't fragment or expand zipped right through the people it was supposed to be killing.

Yep, that's what happens when you drop below the velocity threshold, which in current 5.56 ammo is about 2,300 fps. IIRC, that was right around 400, 500 yards with the old M2 configuration with a 20 inch barrel, with tumble ability enhanced by the slower 1:12 twist.

Chop 6 inches off the barrel, tighten the twist down to 1:7, and voila! MAJOR drop in effectiveness from the latest iteration of the Holy Universal Weapons System!

I read one complaint from a user in Afghanistan who said at ranges much over 200 meters you might as well just call in an air strike because terminal performance sucked so badly.

[230RN]

Terry muffles mouth in a stage-whisper fashion.

Let alone the wind drift at longer range...  Of course that doesn't matter if you're just fire-hosing rounds downrange. Kentucky windage by full auto.

Terry stifles a laugh.

[just Warren]

Give everyone an M-79.

Problem solved!

[Regolith]

Give everyone an M-79.

Problem solved!

Nah, Mk19.

Because *expletive deleted*ck you and everyone near you.

[Fly320s]

Nah, Mk19.

MAGA.  Make America Grenade Again.