Should this CCW have chased his attacker?

[just Warren]

He won the fistfight and drove the goblin away.

But then went on to chase the thug and ended up shooting him in the butt.

Now he's in jail and the outcome in terms of charges is uncertain.

Would you have chased the guy? Would you shoot a fleeing attacker? 

[dogmush]

He won the fistfight and drove the goblin away.

But then went on to chase the thug and ended up shooting him in the butt.

Now he's in jail and the outcome in terms of charges is uncertain.

Would you have chased the guy? Would you shoot a fleeing attacker? 

No, and no.

I would have called the police and reported being assaulted (first person to make the report is the victim)  and left the Area in case goblin was coming back with friends and/or firepower.

[Phyphor]

*expletive deleted*ck no.

Once they're running, it's OVER.  Your best bet is to report the encounter to the cops (get it documented NOW) and un-ass the area (unless it's your house or something like that. )

Chasing is pretty stupid no matter what, and shooting him in the butt was an absolutely stupid thing to do.

[Brad Johnson]

No.

Most concealed carry laws I'm familiar with are adamant that your right to use of deadly force ends when the "threat of imminent serious bodily injury or death" ends. A BG running away is no longer an imminent threat ergo no more legal justification for use of deadly force.

There's also the responsibility to take no action which will escalate a situation. By chasing a fleeing BG the shooter was acting counter to that responsibility.

He's lucky all he did was hit the BG in the butt. If charged/convicted he'll likely end up with some high-level misdemeanor and a suspended sentence. Had the BG died he'd probably be facing muder charges.

Brad

[Hawkmoon]

No, and no.

Not a good shoot.

[MechAg94]

Did the shooting not happen until the very end of that surveillance video clip?  That is what it looks like, but I wanted to check and see if I missed something.

If that is the case, he was attacked, fought his way clear, followed the guy around the side of the building, brought him back around front at gun point, then followed/chased him a short distance away before firing?  That looks like he went a bit further than most would consider self defense. 

[TommyGunn]

This question even has to be asked?

NO!

[/b]

[brimic]

No.
OTOH, that area is ghetto. There are shootings a few times a week, gangbanger shooting gangbanger, gangbanger shooting toddler, gangbanger shooting random human. People die in these types of 'robberies' on a regular basis. I seriously have no remorse for the 'victim' of the shooting.

Same area, almost 15 years ago... This one sticks in the minds of milwaukeeans. State Special Agent was was complying with a robbery attempt and was gunned down in cold blood.

https://www.odmp.org/officer/17490-special-agent-jay-p-balchunas

[Pb]

No sympathy for the thug.  Give a medal to the shooter.

[griz]

Unless I'm seeing a different video than you guys, there isn't enough to go on.  The guy is headed away from him when shot, but there are gaps between the attack, the bad guy headed toward the camera, then the bad guy headed the other way.  It doesn't look good, but i can imagine a situation where the good guy tries to disengage but the bad guy keeps hanging around looking for another opportunity. 

[MechAg94]

Unless I'm seeing a different video than you guys, there isn't enough to go on.  The guy is headed away from him when shot, but there are gaps between the attack, the bad guy headed toward the camera, then the bad guy headed the other way.  It doesn't look good, but i can imagine a situation where the good guy tries to disengage but the bad guy keeps hanging around looking for another opportunity. 

I can't disagree with that.  This struck me as one of those cases where 1) I wouldn't recommend anyone do what he did, but 2) I would have a hard time convicting him if I were on the jury. 

[gunsmith]

i tried watching the video, not a lot of success - however - it looked like a long fight.
looks like the thug kept coming back and it also looked like ccw guy was under the influence of a huge dose of adrenaline.
at one point it looks like the ccw guy whacks him in the noggin with the pistol.
the video was buffering wierdly , it looked like the ccw guy was attempting a citizens arrest but had no training on how to detain someone.
I don't think he should have shot the guy but I am glad he did.
hopefully ccw guy learned he needed more training and thuggy wannabee learned to not rob people

[brimic]

Shooter is not being charged.. unless the virulently anti-gun DA's office finds something to charge him with.

https://fox6now.com/2018/08/03/man-faces-robbery-charge-after-prosecutors-say-he-attacked-ccw-permit-holder-who-then-shot-him/

[Ben]

Shooter is not being charged.. unless the virulently anti-gun DA's office finds something to charge him with.

https://fox6now.com/2018/08/03/man-faces-robbery-charge-after-prosecutors-say-he-attacked-ccw-permit-holder-who-then-shot-him/

Interesting. I hadn't commented here yet, but from the video alone, I was going with legally bad shoot. Though from my "I hate thieves" perspective, a thief being shot in the ass is appropriate. That doesn't even take the beatdown into account. All thieves and robbers should be shot in the ass.

[Pb]

Good!   

If you don't want to get shot by someone, don't attack them!

I don't care if they are "running away" or not.

If this happened all the time to these aholes, robbery would go away.

[Hawkmoon]

Shooter is not being charged.. unless the virulently anti-gun DA's office finds something to charge him with.

https://fox6now.com/2018/08/03/man-faces-robbery-charge-after-prosecutors-say-he-attacked-ccw-permit-holder-who-then-shot-him/

I am glad the shooter is not being charged, but I still don't think the shooting was legally defensible.

[gunsmith]

sometimes, the good guy wins.
it was a bad shoot but understandable, especially for me.
I understand what its like living in an inner city ghetto.
I understand shooting the guy, the cops would never catch and the DA will never prosecute the robber.
In my old slum in NYC muggers have to maim or kill in order to face serious consequences.
If he had held him for the cops, he would be back on the street in a day.
A justified unjustified shooting.
Not legal, but when we can't rely on the criminal justice system, we are left with little choice.
I was a taxi driver and after catching the people trying to rob me multiple times and seeing the cops not even run them for warrants, I beat the tar out of the last one.
there was consequences for me, because i have a livelihood and ID, but the sketchy street rats do not and do not mind jail because its showers and meals and new friends.
Sometimes you just have to let your mugger know that he picked the wrong day and wrong person to steal from.

[brimic]

sometimes, the good guy wins.
it was a bad shoot but understandable, especially for me.
I understand what its like living in an inner city ghetto.
I understand shooting the guy, the cops would never catch and the DA will never prosecute the robber.
In my old slum in NYC muggers have to maim or kill in order to face serious consequences.
If he had held him for the cops, he would be back on the street in a day.
A justified unjustified shooting.
Not legal, but when we can't rely on the criminal justice system, we are left with little choice.
I was a taxi driver and after catching the people trying to rob me multiple times and seeing the cops not even run them for warrants, I beat the tar out of the last one.
there was consequences for me, because i have a livelihood and ID, but the sketchy street rats do not and do not mind jail because its showers and meals and new friends.
Sometimes you just have to let your mugger know that he picked the wrong day and wrong person to steal from.

All of that.
In milwaukee, Carjacking (they charge it as 'operating without permission') carries a very light penalty, and perps do it multiple times until it escalates to the point where a life is lost.

ETA: the counties surrounding Milwaukee county are very conservative, have no tolerance for this type of crime, throw the book at criminals, and are very safe except for the occasional criminal that wanders out of milwaukee county.

[Ben]

In milwaukee, Carjacking (they charge it as 'operating without permission') carries a very light penalty,

That is very disturbing to me. Perhaps I'm out of touch, but I consider carjacking at the same level as home invasion. Pretty much a "shoot first and ask questions later" type of crime, because there is an imminent danger to my life.

[brimic]

That is very disturbing to me. Perhaps I'm out of touch, but I consider carjacking at the same level of home invasion. Pretty much a "shoot first and ask questions later" type of crime, because there is an imminent danger to my life.

But, we cant rehabilitated the yutes if they have a felony conviction!

[Strings]

Which is why, anytime I have to actually be IN Milwaukee, I'm carrying more than just a 1911 and a couple reloads

[Hawkmoon]

But, we cant rehabilitated the yutes if they have a felony conviction!

Fixed it for you.

[freakazoid]

That is very disturbing to me. Perhaps I'm out of touch, but I consider carjacking at the same level as home invasion. Pretty much a "shoot first and ask questions later" type of crime, because there is an imminent danger to my life.

I'd be inclined to consider it at a higher level than a home invasion. A home invasion you have a lot of room to move around in and possibly hide and escape or fight back. A car jacking is happening an inch from you with no where for you to really escape.

[Hawkmoon]

I'd be inclined to consider it at a higher level than a home invasion. A home invasion you have a lot of room to move around in and possibly hide and escape or fight back. A car jacking is happening an inch from you with no where for you to really escape.

Yeah ... there's no provision for a safe room in a car, and no time to dial 9-1-1.

[brimic]

I'd be inclined to consider it at a higher level than a home invasion. A home invasion you have a lot of room to move around in and possibly hide and escape or fight back. A car jacking is happening an inch from you with no where for you to really escape.

But the nice carjackers will sometimes leave your car a few blocks away if they find a child in a car seat....