Sea-Tac hijacking followed by barrel roll and intentional crash

[Viking]

http://www.foxnews.com/travel/2018/08/11/plane-crashes-after-unauthorized-take-off-from-seatac-airport-officials-say.html
Mechanic takes off in plane, jets are scrambled, banter with ATC follows, he wonders about getting a job as a pilot jokes around, he does a barrel roll, then crashes the plane into the ground. People on reddit who followed it said the guy seemed to realize mid-air that he was well and truly *expletive deleted*ed now, even if he was not before stealing the plane. Sad story.

[Viking]

“You think if I can land this successfully, Alaska will give me a job as a pilot?” and the Air Traffic Control tower said, “I think they will give you a job doing anything if you pull this off.” He replied, “yeahhh right.”

[Fly320s]

Every pilot’s dream.  Well, except for the dying part.

[Viking]

"Think you can get someone on who knows how to fly this thing?"
"I wanna try some maneuvers before I put her down".
"I threw up a little bit. I uh, shoot, hold up, man I'm sorry about this I hope it doesn't ruin your day"
"I've played video games before so I, uh, I know what I'm doing a little bit"
"I've got a lot of people that care about me and it's going to disappoint them to hear that I did this. I would like to apologize to each and every one of them. Just a broken guy, got a few screws loose, never really knew it until now".
"Man have you been to the Olympics? These guys are gorgeous, holy smokes"
"Hey uh, pilot guy, can this thing do a backflip you think?"
"I think I'm gonna land it, like uh, in a safe kinda manner. I think I'm gonna try a barrel roll and if that goes well I think I'm gonna go nose down and call it a night".
"I'm gonna do a barrel roll real quick"
"I wouldn't mind just shooting the *expletive deleted*it with you guys, but it's all business you know"
" I feel like I need to be, what do you think, maybe 5000 feet to pull this barrel roll off?"
"I feel like one of my engines is going out or something"

Guy needed help.

[Viking]

Every pilot’s dream.  Well, except for the dying part.

Could he have made a successful landing with coaching from a pilot in the tower?

[Viking]

Video of the barrel roll
https://mobile.twitter.com/CameronThomsen/status/1028157648158568448/video/1

[Fly320s]

Video of the barrel roll
https://mobile.twitter.com/CameronThomsen/status/1028157648158568448/video/1

Nice flyin’, Tex!  He almost ran out of altitude.

I’m surprised he didn’t buzz the tower or Seattle or something.

[Jamisjockey]

Could he have made a successful landing with coaching from a pilot in the tower?

Doubtful.  While I work with quite a few pilots, most are only rated in smaller airframes like Cessna 172's and such. No idea how long it could take to get someone type rated or even familiar enough to fake it onto the freq.

[Firethorn]

Doubtful.  While I work with quite a few pilots, most are only rated in smaller airframes like Cessna 172's and such. No idea how long it could take to get someone type rated or even familiar enough to fake it onto the freq.

Mythbusters tried it in a simulator and they were both able to successfully land a simulated large passanger aircraft, I think a 747, while being coached by a instructor pilot in the ATC seat.

[Fly320s]

Could he have made a successful landing with coaching from a pilot in the tower?

Successful as in not dying or successful as in being able to use the plane again?

This guy sounds like he had some sort of flying experience, maybe from video games, so I think he had pretty good odds of making a successflu landing on his own.  With good coaching, he could probably land well-enough to not damage the plane.

[Jamisjockey]

Mythbusters tried it in a simulator and they were both able to successfully land a simulated large passanger aircraft, I think a 747, while being coached by a instructor pilot in the ATC seat.

Read my post? 
Very few of my colleagues have the flight experience in anything more than a single engine airframe such as a Cherokee or C172.
There is a huge difference in operating a C172 and operating a twin engine commuter aircraft. 
If you can get someone on frequency who has familiarity with the operation of that aircraft, then I think the odds of a successful landing would go up dramatically.

I know of several instances where ATC or pilots have talked people through landing aircraft they're familiar with.
The biggest aircraft I know of being "talked down" by controllers was a super king air when the pilot died, but the guy who took control of the airplane was a qualified pilot, just not in twin engines.  http://www.cnn.com/2009/US/04/13/florida.plane.emergency/

[MillCreek]

My wife and I were watching this live for a bit on the Seattle local news.  The most interesting thing to me was the F-15 response from Portland. The air-to-air defense for the upper left corner of the country is handled by the Oregon Air National Guard flying F-15s out of Portland. You can see their base on the other side of the civilian Portland International Airport.  When they punch the afterburners, they can get up to the Seattle area in just minutes.  As shown by this response, they must keep a couple of aircraft on strip alert.  I knew that the AF/ANG did that all across the country for quite a while after 9/11 but then it tapered off.  On occasion, the Oregon ANG also scrambles for issues in Canadian air space under NORAD, since I don't think Canadian Forces have any air-to-air defense assets in British Columbia.

McChord Air Force Base in Tacoma is all cargo aircraft these days, Fairchild in Spokane is air refueling and Whidbey Naval Air Station is maritime patrol and electronic warfare.  At any one time, there may be a couple of Arleigh Burke destroyers at Naval Station Everett, but they offload ordnance at Indian Island Magazine before making port.  So if the Russians decide to make an air strike on the Seattle area, it will be Portland who saves the day for us.

[Jamisjockey]

There's quite a few alert jets scattered around the country. 

On the nooz:
https://youtu.be/IgL5jOypOQ8?t=1m55s

[MillCreek]

There's quite a few alert jets scattered around the country. 

On the nooz:
https://youtu.be/IgL5jOypOQ8?t=1m55s

Jamis, who is it that makes the call to alert the air defense assets for something like this that is not picked up on NORAD radar?  Is it the local ATC with knowledge of the situation?  I wonder if the NORAD alert desk has a number you can call....

[MillCreek]

https://www.businessinsider.com/f-15cs-breaks-sound-barrier-intercepting-stolen-airliner-from-seattle-2018-8?utm_source=feedburner&amp%3Butm_medium=referral&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+businessinsider+%28Business+Insider%29&utm_content=FeedBurner+user+view

https://twitter.com/Sabian404/status/1028137639747051521/photo/1?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1028137639747051521&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Ftheaviationist.com%2F2018%2F08%2F11%2Ff-15cs-intercept-stolen-dash-8-airliner-out-of-seattle-tacoma-airport-before-crash%2F

Eight minutes from initial alert to airborne, and then approximately five minutes to the interception site. You can see what appears to be a Sidewinder on the starboard pylon of each aircraft. The Twitter feed also references an AMRAAM, but I don't see that one.  Fairchild dispatched a KC-135 tanker in support.

[Jamisjockey]

Jamis, who is it that makes the call to alert the air defense assets for something like this that is not picked up on NORAD radar?  Is it the local ATC with knowledge of the situation?  I wonder if the NORAD alert desk has a number you can call....

Goes up the chain.  We usually notice first and alert from there but there are a lot of eyes in the sky so to speak.
As to the decision chain, that’s not something I can speak publicly on without risking my clearance.

[cordex]

You can see what appears to be a Sidewinder on the starboard pylon of each aircraft. The Twitter feed also references an AMRAAM, but I don't see that one.

White nose cone inboard of the sidewinder?

[MillCreek]

White nose cone inboard of the sidewinder?

I think you are spot on as I look at the different angles of the two photos.

[dogmush]

I think you are spot on as I look at the different angles of the two photos.

Yep, That's a Sidewinder outboard and an AMRAAM inboard. 

Drop tanks instead of conformals though.  Seems like that'd slow them down a little.  Does anyone know if the F-15C will take the conformal tanks, or is that limited to the E's?

[Jamisjockey]

Yep, That's a Sidewinder outboard and an AMRAAM inboard. 

Drop tanks instead of conformals though.  Seems like that'd slow them down a little.  Does anyone know if the F-15C will take the conformal tanks, or is that limited to the E's?

They have to be setup for over-the-water intercepts and have the gas on board to loiter.  I saw the F16's out of Ellington do that regularly.

[Hawkmoon]

The air-to-air defense for the upper left corner of the country is handled by the Oregon Air National Guard flying F-15s out of Portland. You can see their base on the other side of the civilian Portland International Airport.  When they punch the afterburners, they can get up to the Seattle area in just minutes. 

Where the video picks up the F-15 toward the end -- he's clearly on afterburner. There's a very visible flame coming out of the exhaust.

[Hawkmoon]

Most of the news reports I'm seeing appear to be trying to avoid calling the crash an intentional suicide. Their slant is that he was performing dangerous maneuvers and crashed as a result. I wonder if they are doing to in the hope of potentially preserving life insurance benefits for his wife.

https://apnews.com/701faeff7c7a44ab89b1186f6ffa63be/Plane-stolen-by-'suicidal'-employee-crashes-near-Seattle

The Friday night crash happened because the 29-year-old man was “doing stunts in air or lack of flying skills,” the Pierce County Sheriff’s Department said.

Here's the part I like: It appears the ANG F-15s arrived on scene just in time to do a flyover and confirm the crash. Nonetheless:

Troyer [Pierce County Sheriff’s Department spokesman] said F-15 aircraft took off out of Portland, Oregon, and were in the air “within a few minutes” and the pilots kept “people on the ground safe.”

Just how did they keep anyone on the ground safe?

Southers [Erroll Southers, a former FBI agent and transportation security expert], the aviation security expert, said the man could have caused mass destruction. “If he had the skill set to do loops with a plane like this, he certainly had the capacity to fly it into a building and kill people on the ground.,” he said.

Thank you, Captain Obvious. Why is it that too often the "authorities" simply refuse to acknowledge what any third grader can see plainly? The ANG didn't do anything. That's not to fault them, but the reality is that it took them between 15 and 20 minutes from the time they were scrambled to arrive on post. In that time, if the guy had wanted to do so he could easily have flown the plane into the biggest building in Seattle.

[Fly320s]

Why is it that too often the "authorities" simply refuse to acknowledge what any third grader can see plainly?

Protecting their jobs.  The police and other government employees have been indoctrinated to think that only they can protect the general population.  You see that line of thought more in liberal types than in conservative types, but both groups think that way.

[Hawkmoon]

Now that the Q400 has been successfully tested for aerobatics, I wonder if Bombardier will get the type certificate upgraded?

I couldn't help thinking about this video skit -- just substitute "wings" for "front," and "airplane" for "ship":
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3m5qxZm_JqM

[KD5NRH]

There is a huge difference in operating a C172 and operating a twin engine commuter aircraft.

One of the ancient crop duster pilots here used to say the fix for that is to turn the motors off.  Then they're nothing but glide slope and control response.  He'd trained bomber crews in WWII, so I figure he had some relevant experience.

And, of course, they all go splat the same way when you screw up bad enough.