Author Topic: Dear patient with a service animal  (Read 2805 times)

MillCreek

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Dear patient with a service animal
« on: October 16, 2018, 04:33:16 PM »
Dear patient with a service animal:

Please do not try to pass off your miniature pig as a service animal.  I must admit this was the first time I have ever seen a miniature pig up close and actually petted one.  It looked very alert and cute with its little orange harness with a 'service animal' badge attached to it.  You seemed surprised when I gave you a copy of the actual state and Federal regs defining a service animal as a dog or miniature horse and proving that I did not have to accommodate a pig.   Because my heart is not made of stone, however, I did allow you to bring the pig into clinic this morning and you promised to leave it at home next time.  I am a sucker for a cute pig. 
_____________
Regards,
MillCreek
Snohomish County, WA  USA


Quote from: Angel Eyes on August 09, 2018, 01:56:15 AM
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Brad Johnson

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Re: Dear patient with a service animal
« Reply #1 on: October 16, 2018, 04:34:42 PM »
I didn't think there were fed regs for "service animal" and I'm very interested in a professional capacity. Could you posty linky?

Brad
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MillCreek

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_____________
Regards,
MillCreek
Snohomish County, WA  USA


Quote from: Angel Eyes on August 09, 2018, 01:56:15 AM
You are one lousy risk manager.

Firethorn

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Re: Dear patient with a service animal
« Reply #3 on: October 16, 2018, 05:56:03 PM »
I think the current regs are a bit too narrow, we used to have monkeys trained as service animals, and pigs test as smarter than dogs on a routine basis.

Realistically, I'd rather switch to a standard that tests animals for social suitability.

IE if your anti-seizure dog is great at handling seizures but can't handle crowds, it doesn't get the privileges of a service animal, not that this is a big problem.

If somebody has a social support purse dog that passed the tests, I'm fine with it being out and about, as it will cause fewer problems than its owner.

Most weird animals won't pass, and should we really care if somebody has a pig that does?
« Last Edit: October 17, 2018, 10:32:47 PM by Firethorn »

BlueStarLizzard

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Re: Dear patient with a service animal
« Reply #4 on: October 16, 2018, 09:23:53 PM »
I think the current regs are a bit too narrow, we used to habe monkeys trained as service animals, and pigs test as smarter than dogs on a routine basis.

Realistically, I'd rather switch to a standard that tests animals for social suitability.

IE if your anti-seizure dog is great at handling seizures but can't handle crowds, it doesn't get the privileges of a service animal, not that this is a big problem.

If somebody has a social support purse dog that passed the tests, I'm fine with it being out and about, as it will cause fewer problems than its owner.

Most weird animals won't pass, and should we really care if somebody has a pig that does?

THIS THIS THIS THIS

Furthermore, a service animal needs to be unobtrusive and focused on the owner (who it's serving) Not tail wagging, trying to meet and great everyone it see's and acting like it's on parade. (I've run into this and it irked me)
"Okay, um, I'm lost. Uh, I'm angry, and I'm armed, so if you two have something that you need to work out --" -Malcolm Reynolds

Kingcreek

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Re: Dear patient with a service animal
« Reply #5 on: October 16, 2018, 09:26:09 PM »
So I should cancel my order for a therapy gator?
What we have here is failure to communicate.

RoadKingLarry

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Re: Dear patient with a service animal
« Reply #6 on: October 16, 2018, 09:37:10 PM »
So, my service honey badger is right out then?
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Hawkmoon

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Re: Dear patient with a service animal
« Reply #7 on: October 16, 2018, 09:38:55 PM »
I think the current regs are a bit too narrow, we used to habe monkeys trained as service animals, and pigs test as smarter than dogs on a routine basis.

Realistically, I'd rather switch to a standard that tests animals for social suitability.


Realistically, I'd rather see a standard that specifically names what animals can be used as "service" animals, as well as a requirement for some sort of certification. And I would like to see the concept of "comfort" animals eliminated under the law, because IMHO that's the one that people are abusing.

As usually happens, something starts out as a response to a legitimate need, and as soon as the .gov creates a protected class a metric boatload as arseholes start claiming that their pet orangutan is a "comfort animal" and that every place of busness or public accommodation or government office MUST allow the beast in.

Horse feathers.
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TommyGunn

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Re: Dear patient with a service animal
« Reply #8 on: October 17, 2018, 12:28:14 AM »
So, my service honey badger is right out then?

Amateur.  I'm waiting for actual cloned dinosaurs.   I want a therapy Velociraptor.  [tinfoil]
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Hawkmoon

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Re: Dear patient with a service animal
« Reply #9 on: October 17, 2018, 12:50:16 AM »
https://www.ada.gov/service_animals_2010.htm

https://www.ada.gov/regs2010/service_animal_qa.html

https://www.law.cornell.edu/cfr/text/28/35.136

https://www.ada.gov/regs2010/titleII_2010/titleII_2010_withbold.htm

Bearing in mind where you work, you should always check with your general counsel's/attorney general office.

From the second link:

Quote
Q36. Do Federal agencies, such as the U.S. Department of Veterans Affairs, have to comply with the ADA?

A. No.  Section 504 of the Rehabilitation Act of 1973 is the Federal law that protects the rights of people with disabilities to participate in Federal programs and services.  For information or to file a complaint, contact the agency's equal opportunity office.

Why might I have thought, even for a nanoscond, that the feral government would follow the same rules it requires everyone else to follow? This explains why I see so many blatantly obvious ADA violations every time I go to the VA hospital.
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freakazoid

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Re: Dear patient with a service animal
« Reply #10 on: October 17, 2018, 01:53:39 AM »
Dear patient with a service animal:

Please do not try to pass off your miniature pig as a service animal.  I must admit this was the first time I have ever seen a miniature pig up close and actually petted one.  It looked very alert and cute with its little orange harness with a 'service animal' badge attached to it.  You seemed surprised when I gave you a copy of the actual state and Federal regs defining a service animal as a dog or miniature horse and proving that I did not have to accommodate a pig.   Because my heart is not made of stone, however, I did allow you to bring the pig into clinic this morning and you promised to leave it at home next time.  I am a sucker for a cute pig. 

Ummm... What? ???
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Scout26

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Re: Dear patient with a service animal
« Reply #11 on: October 17, 2018, 01:56:04 AM »
Amateur.  I'm waiting for actual cloned dinosaurs.   I want a therapy Velociraptor.  [tinfoil]

Beat me to it.
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zxcvbob

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Re: Dear patient with a service animal
« Reply #12 on: October 17, 2018, 01:56:55 AM »
Amateur.  I'm waiting for actual cloned dinosaurs.   I want a therapy Velociraptor.  [tinfoil]

An "emotional support" velociraptor :D
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KD5NRH

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Re: Dear patient with a service animal
« Reply #13 on: October 17, 2018, 06:44:41 AM »
So, my service honey badger is right out then?

I've been trying to decide between a badger and a wolverine to help with my tendency to attract stupid people.

Fly320s

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Re: Dear patient with a service animal
« Reply #14 on: October 17, 2018, 08:05:21 AM »
Amateurs.

I’m currently interviewing female Croatian Super Model comfort animals to keep me relaxed while flying.
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MillCreek

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Re: Dear patient with a service animal
« Reply #15 on: October 17, 2018, 08:41:44 AM »
Ummm... What? ???

Read the last page of my first link. All about miniature horses.
_____________
Regards,
MillCreek
Snohomish County, WA  USA


Quote from: Angel Eyes on August 09, 2018, 01:56:15 AM
You are one lousy risk manager.

KD5NRH

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Re: Dear patient with a service animal
« Reply #16 on: October 17, 2018, 09:11:39 AM »
Read the last page of my first link. All about miniature horses.

What about getting a regular horse and disguising it as a miniature Clydesdale?

MillCreek

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Re: Dear patient with a service animal
« Reply #17 on: October 17, 2018, 09:31:25 AM »
What about getting a regular horse and disguising it as a miniature Clydesdale?

Here is how the Feds define a miniature horse: In addition to the provisions about service dogs, the Department’s revised ADA regulations have a new, separate provision about miniature horses that have been individually trained to do work or perform tasks for people with disabilities. (Miniature horses generally range in height from 24 inches to 34 inches measured to the shoulders and generally weigh between 70 and 100 pounds.)  I have read some material on miniature horses being trained as guide animals and the like, and one of the biggest problems is training the horse not to bite.
_____________
Regards,
MillCreek
Snohomish County, WA  USA


Quote from: Angel Eyes on August 09, 2018, 01:56:15 AM
You are one lousy risk manager.

Brad Johnson

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Re: Dear patient with a service animal
« Reply #18 on: October 17, 2018, 10:28:52 AM »
I have read some material on miniature horses being trained as guide animals and the like, and one of the biggest problems is training the horse not to bite.

It's been my experience that in the "emotional support whatever-animal-is-trendy" crowd it's the people who need the muzzles.

**Specific exception for people who have been professionally matched to a trained service animal.**

Brad
It's all about the pancakes, people.
"And he thought cops wouldn't chase... a STOLEN DONUT TRUCK???? That would be like Willie Nelson ignoring a pickup full of weed."
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Pb

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Re: Dear patient with a service animal
« Reply #19 on: October 17, 2018, 11:38:03 AM »
There was a university that lost an expensive lawsuit because they banned an emotional support guinea pig. 

Hawkmoon

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Re: Dear patient with a service animal
« Reply #20 on: October 17, 2018, 01:04:47 PM »
There was a university that lost an expensive lawsuit because they banned an emotional support guinea pig. 

Unless that state has very strange laws, I'd say that's a university that should hire better lawyers.
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TechMan

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Re: Dear patient with a service animal
« Reply #21 on: October 17, 2018, 04:35:13 PM »
Amateur.  I'm waiting for actual cloned dinosaurs.   I want a therapy Velociraptor.  [tinfoil]

That's cutting edge...
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just Warren

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Re: Dear patient with a service animal
« Reply #22 on: October 17, 2018, 07:55:17 PM »
Knew a guy who had a Shetland pony named Bill that was trained to whinny whenever his master had a problem.

However this didn't work as one day the guy had a seizure and died. The poor pony had tried his best to alert the nurse but she couldn't hear him because Bill was a little horse.

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Hawkmoon

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Re: Dear patient with a service animal
« Reply #23 on: October 17, 2018, 10:52:41 PM »
Knew a guy who had a Shetland pony named Bill that was trained to whinny whenever his master had a problem.

However this didn't work as one day the guy had a seizure and died. The poor pony had tried his best to alert the nurse but she couldn't hear him because Bill was a little horse.


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Firethorn

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Re: Dear patient with a service animal
« Reply #24 on: October 17, 2018, 10:54:16 PM »
Realistically, I'd rather see a standard that specifically names what animals can be used as "service" animals, as well as a requirement for some sort of certification. And I would like to see the concept of "comfort" animals eliminated under the law, because IMHO that's the one that people are abusing.

Your first part has already been done.  Under the ADA your choices have been restricted down to dogs and miniature horses.  Cats, pigs, monkeys, regular sized horses, and all need not apply. Monkeys are no longer allowed because they're considered too dangerous, and too smart - it's cruel to keep them as a service animal.

As for the comfort animals, they typically aren't actually protected, it's more that there isn't a specific listing of what conditions it applies to because it would be too damn long.  Blindness, deafness, seizure, panic attacks, paralysis(fetching, toting, opening doors) are only the start of reasons to have a service animal.

As such, people pushing it generally get away with it because the people in the location don't want trouble and aren't familiar with the exact details of the law.

Quote
As usually happens, something starts out as a response to a legitimate need, and as soon as the .gov creates a protected class a metric boatload as arseholes start claiming that their pet orangutan is a "comfort animal" and that every place of busness or public accommodation or government office MUST allow the beast in.

Which is why I support requiring them to pass tests on social behavior regardless of "legitimate need" because it gets down to the point - if you're going to have the animal out in public on and off private and public land, it needs to be well behaved.  Don't worry about what task(s) it has been trained to do on the medical side, that's hard to assess.  Whether the thing can be out and about without tearing people's faces off is the more important concern.