Amazon Tiny Houses

[charby]

Can someone explain this craze, please? I mean, I get that it makes for lower utility costs, but what will you do with the money you save? You can't collect widgets (no room), make widgets (no room), and how many hobbies can you pursue, with no room to store equipment/materials/tools? Not to mention no room for kids. Is this mostly for writers, or people that do all their work on an ipad? Is it for people saving to get a real house? Is it for business owners that work 18 hours a day, and only come home to sleep, and shower? Is it for people constantly on the road?

'Cuz I live in a very small house, and it's pretty far from ideal.

I would want one for a weekend hunting/fishing cabin, not a primary residence. Before I got married I lived in a 2 bedroom 700 sq ft cottage, it was plenty of room for my dog and me. I'd probably be living in a place of similar size if I was still a bachelor.

I think some people are enamored by them because they want to divest themselves of crap, or work part time with a place to live they can afford. Some people just don't want kids, so buying a big house to fill with offspring isn't in their plans. Might be for folks who live in areas of high real estate prices and high rents, and a 400 sq ft tiny house without sharing a wall with neighbors sounds a lot nicer than the 400 sq ft studio apartment they are living in?

[K Frame]

anyone still make those?

Likely not. The benefit of a column stove is that it wouldn't take up nearly as much floor space in such a small house.

Something like this would be perfect, I'd think...

https://www.ebay.com/itm/REDUCED-Rare-German-Antique-Store-Munich-1890s-Parlor-Coal-Stove-Cast-Iron-Swobo/132820154313?_trkparms=aid%3D888007%26algo%3DDISC.MBE%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D20131227121020%26meid%3D9234e58f81e14d44b62c9cadcb8483da%26pid%3D100009%26rk%3D1%26rkt%3D1%26sd%3D263891442175%26itm%3D132820154313&_trksid=p2047675.c100009.m1982

[zahc]

My parents have a log house; it's from a Canadian company and the roof is more insulated than any other house I have personally seen. They heat it with wood-fired radiant floor heat on the first floor only. 8 inches of white cedar has a pretty good R value.

About the tiny houses; back home we have had those for a long time, except they come partially furnished and outfitted, and they have wheels so you can easily put them wherever you want to.

[Ron]

1400 sq feet with a basement and 2 car garage seems about the right size to me as a single guy with a lot of gear intensive hobbies.

I’d like to have a tiny house/cabin in the wilderness though.

[K Frame]

"8 inches of white cedar has a pretty good R value."

Only about 10-12, actually, depending on whether it's considered a hardwood or softwood.

One of the more interesting tricks I saw on a "log cabin" was the logs, interior and exterior, were split and veneered onto a well insulated wall structure. Added to the cost and complexity, but made it much easier to run services in the walls and really cut down on the tendency of log cabins to settle a LOT.

[Hawkmoon]

"8 inches of white cedar has a pretty good R value."

Only about 10-12, actually, depending on whether it's considered a hardwood or softwood.

Cedar is a softwood. And white cedar is softer than red cedar.

[bedlamite]

One of the more interesting tricks I saw on a "log cabin" was the logs, interior and exterior, were split and veneered onto a well insulated wall structure. Added to the cost and complexity, but made it much easier to run services in the walls and really cut down on the tendency of log cabins to settle a LOT.

That's what my parents have. Maintenance sucks. Every year you have to go over the whole house with a big caulk gun, peel out any loose caulk and redo it. It needs a fresh coat of oil stain regularly too.

[Hawkmoon]

I'm in climate zone 5A under the 2015 Model Energy Code and International Residential Code. The requirements for this zone are R-20 for the walls, R-49 for the ceiling, and R-30 for the floor. I just don't see how anything like a log cabin can come close to meeting that. They would be great for a camp cabin that doesn't qualify as a permanent residence, but they couldn't be built as a primary residence in this climate. Farther north, it gets worse. In zone 6 the requirements jump to R-20+5 or R-13+10 for walls, R-49 for the ceiling, and R-30 for the floor.

Those are for frame walls. There's a separate column for mass walls, which is what a log cabin would be IF the wall weighs at least 20 pounds-per-square-foot. For zone 5, mass walls require "13/17," which means (and I'll quote):

“15/19” means R-15 continuous insulation on the interior or exterior of the home or R-19 cavity insulation at the interior of the basement wall. "15/19” shall be permitted to be met with R-13 cavity insulation on the interior of the basement wall plus R-5 continuous insulation on the interior or exterior of the home. “10/13” means R-10 continuous insulation on the interior or exterior of the home or R-13 cavity insulation at the interior of the basement wall.

So you can't build a log cabin and leave the logs exposed on both the interior and the exterior.

Zone 6 for mass walls is R-15/20. Northern Michigan and northern Minnesota get into zone 7.

[Ben]

I would want one for a weekend hunting/fishing cabin, not a primary residence. Before I got married I lived in a 2 bedroom 700 sq ft cottage, it was plenty of room for my dog and me. I'd probably be living in a place of similar size if I was still a bachelor.

I think some people are enamored by them because they want to divest themselves of crap, or work part time with a place to live they can afford. Some people just don't want kids, so buying a big house to fill with offspring isn't in their plans. Might be for folks who live in areas of high real estate prices and high rents, and a 400 sq ft tiny house without sharing a wall with neighbors sounds a lot nicer than the 400 sq ft studio apartment they are living in?

Yup. Plus there is some "hipster/eco" lifestyle thing about how small of a space you can use efficiently. I'm in the "hunting/fishing cabin" camp. Other than as Scout mentioned, if you've ever seen the way they design these, there are a lot of "moving walls" and stuff. In some of them it's like solving a Rubik's Cube to get to the shower.

For a cabin, I'd rather go up a couple hundred square feet and not have to solve a puzzle to take a shower. However I think one of the deals with these things is being able to move them from place to place, as there is a segment of younger people that want to be able to move their home every year or so and see new things, so they want to keep them as compact and efficient as possible. Also making them "not real houses" apparently lets them "park" on cheaper land.

And yes, I recognize that the above could also describe a motor home. 

[charby]

For a cabin, I'd rather go up a couple hundred square feet and not have to solve a puzzle to take a shower.

Cabin, I'd probably be off the grid. Solar w/battery bank. Composting/incinerating toilet or outhouse. I'd have a water buffalo to haul water into camp. Propane for range, fridge and water heater. I'm not living there year round plus an outhouse and outdoor shower scares a lot of people from inviting themselves for a week/weekend.

[brimic]

Can someone explain this craze, please? I mean, I get that it makes for lower utility costs, but what will you do with the money you save? You can't collect widgets (no room), make widgets (no room), and how many hobbies can you pursue, with no room to store equipment/materials/tools? Not to mention no room for kids. Is this mostly for writers, or people that do all their work on an ipad? Is it for people saving to get a real house? Is it for business owners that work 18 hours a day, and only come home to sleep, and shower? Is it for people constantly on the road?

'Cuz I live in a very small house, and it's pretty far from ideal.

Too small for me to use for anything. My wife needs a small studio to do decor arrangements/displays and photograph them for sale along with resale stuff she does. We literally do not have a square foot to spare in the house with my stuff, her stuff, plus her inventory.

I showed her this last night along with a few other models and she went nuts over it.

I would not want to live in one.

[dogmush]

I'm in climate zone 5A under the 2015 Model Energy Code and International Residential Code. The requirements for this zone are R-20 for the walls, R-49 for the ceiling, and R-30 for the floor. I just don't see how anything like a log cabin can come close to meeting that. They would be great for a camp cabin that doesn't qualify as a permanent residence, but they couldn't be built as a primary residence in this climate. Farther north, it gets worse. In zone 6 the requirements jump to R-20+5 or R-13+10 for walls, R-49 for the ceiling, and R-30 for the floor.

Those are for frame walls. There's a separate column for mass walls, which is what a log cabin would be IF the wall weighs at least 20 pounds-per-square-foot. For zone 5, mass walls require "13/17," which means (and I'll quote):

So you can't build a log cabin and leave the logs exposed on both the interior and the exterior.

Zone 6 for mass walls is R-15/20. Northern Michigan and northern Minnesota get into zone 7.

Hawkmoon,  I can't claim to be a code expert, but you got me wondering, because I've seen new log homes be built.  So I googled "new Log Homes" which led me to this company that sells new log homes and has a handy section on energy performance: https://coventryloghomes.com/aboutUs/energyPerformance.html

They have some links on that page, but the TL:DR seems to be that log homes are exempted from the R requirements of the IECC and are rather given min wall thicknesses based on region.  There's a PDF

[brimic]

I wonder how people ever survived before building codes....

[Perd Hapley]

I wonder how people ever survived before building codes....

People say things like that all the time, but life expectancy is a lot higher now...

[brimic]

People say things like that all the time, but life expectancy is a lot higher now...

No, higher life expectancy is due to HOAs...

[K Frame]

And sugar in cornbread...

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[brimic]

And sugar in cornbread...

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That especially...and abortions.

[Jamisjockey]

Cabin, I'd probably be off the grid. Solar w/battery bank. Composting/incinerating toilet or outhouse. I'd have a water buffalo to haul water into camp. Propane for range, fridge and water heater. I'm not living there year round plus an outhouse and outdoor shower scares a lot of people from inviting themselves for a week/weekend.

In that case....


https://www.lowes.com/pd/Best-Barns-Common-12-ft-x-24-ft-Interior-Dimensions-11-42-ft-x-23-42-ft-Lakewood-Gambrel-Engineered-Storage-Shed/1000406185?cm_mmc=SCE_PLA_ONLY-_-LumberAndBuildingMaterials-_-SosOutdoorStorage-_-1000406185:Best_Barns&CAWELAID=&kpid=1000406185&CAGPSPN=pla&k_clickID=go_625849125_34614214270_111133222990_pla-263592203692_c_9007592&gclid=EAIaIQobChMIr9Lctv6w3gIVDUwNCh0ZlAmzEAQYBSABEgKOj_D_BwE

You could easily insulate, panel and modify this into a hell of a hunting cabin. 

[K Frame]

Hey charby, how would you feed the water buffalo? 

[bedlamite]

Hey charby, how would you feed the water buffalo? 

Probably with a fork and spoon

[charby]

Hey charby, how would you feed the water buffalo? 

With a garden hose at home

[Ben]

In that case....


https://www.lowes.com/pd/Best-Barns-Common-12-ft-x-24-ft-Interior-Dimensions-11-42-ft-x-23-42-ft-Lakewood-Gambrel-Engineered-Storage-Shed/1000406185?cm_mmc=SCE_PLA_ONLY-_-LumberAndBuildingMaterials-_-SosOutdoorStorage-_-1000406185:Best_Barns&CAWELAID=&kpid=1000406185&CAGPSPN=pla&k_clickID=go_625849125_34614214270_111133222990_pla-263592203692_c_9007592&gclid=EAIaIQobChMIr9Lctv6w3gIVDUwNCh0ZlAmzEAQYBSABEgKOj_D_BwE

You could easily insulate, panel and modify this into a hell of a hunting cabin. 

Something that seems to be getting popular is the home within a shop. I ran into a guy in Idaho who is the Wyoming rep for Morton Buildings.
https://mortonbuildings.com/

I guess they have been popular in the Northeast and South for a good while, and are getting popular out West. I really like the concept and if you check out the website, there are some beautiful examples of home/shop combos, including things like ginormous aircraft hangers, etc. coupled with pretty near luxury homes.

That said, my realtor took me to one of them (not a Morton building) when I was still shopping, and I wasn't super impressed by it. Partly because it wasn't finished, but also, going to the upstairs loft/family room/office, it was blazing hot, and that was in May. Not that it couldn't be fixed, but I think you have to super insulate these kinds of buildings to make them living spaces. I watched some Morton videos where they show how they do it, and they seem to have a good system for making living spaces liveable, but also notice is hard as hell to find out the building costs on a Morton building.

Again, I think it's an awesome concept, but  I think it has to be "done right", which may make other options more fiscally reasonable.

[Scout26]

Hey charby, how would you feed the water buffalo? 

I think Charby is referring to one of these:

http://www.vintagemilitarytrucks.com/Military_Water_Buffalo_Trailer.htm

[charby]

In that case....


https://www.lowes.com/pd/Best-Barns-Common-12-ft-x-24-ft-Interior-Dimensions-11-42-ft-x-23-42-ft-Lakewood-Gambrel-Engineered-Storage-Shed/1000406185?cm_mmc=SCE_PLA_ONLY-_-LumberAndBuildingMaterials-_-SosOutdoorStorage-_-1000406185:Best_Barns&CAWELAID=&kpid=1000406185&CAGPSPN=pla&k_clickID=go_625849125_34614214270_111133222990_pla-263592203692_c_9007592&gclid=EAIaIQobChMIr9Lctv6w3gIVDUwNCh0ZlAmzEAQYBSABEgKOj_D_BwE

You could easily insulate, panel and modify this into a hell of a hunting cabin. 

I've thought of that, rather stick build one from the ground up.

[charby]

I've even thought about a permanent ice house too. About the time later deer season ends, the hard water is ready.

Build something like there. Basically a camper that can be dropped down onto it frame to sit on the ice.

https://icecastlefh.com/