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[Zed]

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Source

6 February 2007
Why Are Mexican Congressmen Allowed to Negotiate U.S. Immigration Policy in Washington, D.C.?
[Allan Wall] @ 5:47 am

On February 5th, 2007, it was announced in the Mexican media that three members of the Mexican Congress would be traveling to Washington to work with Hispanic and other members of the U.S. Congress to craft changes in U.S. immigration policy.

The three Mexican congressmen, one from each of the three major parties, plan to fly from Mexico City to Washington on February 6th (Tuesday). On Wednesday (February the 7th) they are scheduled to meet with both Democratic and Republican congressional representatives. On Thursday the 8th the Mexican congressmen are to meet with U.S. representatives Joe Baca, Luis B. Gutierrez, Hilda Solis and Nancy Pelosi.

The goal is work toward a migratory accord before the U.S. presidential elections advance any further.

Other plans are to meet with Mexican diplomats, diplomats of other countries, Mexican organizations in the U.S., and to fly to Chicago and visit Elvira Arellano, an illegal alien holed up in a Methodist church.

Need I point out that this is blatant meddling in U.S. internal politics, and should not be tolerated?

What can we say about our U.S. congressional members who are hosting them?

And what of our president, what does he have to say about it? Would a president who cares about our sovereignty allow this?

Nixon was run out of office for less than this, what the hell is Bush thinking?

[JimMarch]

Ummmm...this might not be as bad as it first appears.

Where to start...

Fact is, we need Mexican farm labor.  No question.

We also need a way of legalizing and controlling that workflow as temporary US workers.

Well in one of the biggest instances of our doing that (during WW2 to replace US labor off doing important things like ventilating Nazis) it was a major grade mess.  We arranged the payments through the Mexican gov't which promptly stole a lot of it.  The lawsuits are still going on.

So if we're going to do all this again, we'd best come up with ways of regulating the cross-border traffic AND make sure nobody gets hosed in the deal.

Which in turn is going to mean cooperating with Mexico's gov't.

It's possible to set up a business deal whereby nobody gets screwed.  That's what needs to happen here.  Negotiations along those lines as we're creating the legal framework for it isn't a bad idea on it's face.

It's bad only if it's bungled.  Too early to say on that front...

[The Rabbi]

Immigration to the US is an important issue for Mexico as well.  Why shouldnt they have input?  If we were discussing trade tariffs with China wouldnt you expect the input of Chinese diplomats?

[Jamisjockey]

No, we don't need Mexican farm labor.  We have old mining towns and inner citys full of fully capable unemployed workers.  Our government makes it too profitable to sit on thier asses.
End welfare and kick the illegals out.

[Perd Hapley]

No, we don't need Mexican farm labor.  We have old mining towns and inner citys full of fully capable unemployed workers.  Our government makes it too profitable to sit on thier asses.
End welfare and kick the illegals out.

Nailed it.

[Headless Thompson Gunner]

End welfare and you won't have to kick the illegals out.

[roo_ster]

The tomato farmers whined & pleaded back during the end of the Bracero program that they needed illegal alien labor.  Well, their labor was tossed anyway and the tomato farmers invested in machinery to do what the illegals did with fewer legal American workers.

Imagine that, American companies using ingenuity & capital investment to increase productivity of American workers.  We see the legacy of cheap/unskilled labor vs increased ingenuity & captal investments to this day in the north/south divide in our country.

I'm thinkin' we ought to bet on the side of ingenuity, capital investments, and increased productivity.

[richyoung]

If cheap labor was necessary and good for the economy, Mexico and the rest of the Turd, (excuse me, I mean "Third") World would be rich and making loans to US!

[The Rabbi]

No, we don't need Mexican farm labor.  We have old mining towns and inner citys full of fully capable unemployed workers.  Our government makes it too profitable to sit on thier asses.
End welfare and kick the illegals out.

The unemployment rate is about 5%.  Where is anyone supposed to find labor?  American agriculture is already in trouble, losing market share to Mexico and Chile (checked your fruit's country of origin recently?)  Increasig labor costs will just make American grown products even less competitive.

[Headless Thompson Gunner]

If cheap labor was necessary and good for the economy, Mexico and the rest of the Turd, (excuse me, I mean "Third") World would be rich and making loans to US!

Cheap labor is necessary and good for the economy.  So are lots of other things, like the free market, a stable government, the rule of law, contract enforcement, and on and on.  The fact that the turd world has cheap labor without prosperity doesn't mean that cheap labor isn't important or necessary here.

[HankB]

If cheap labor was necessary and good for the economy, Mexico and the rest of the Turd, (excuse me, I mean "Third") World would be rich and making loans to US!

No need to excuse yourself, you were right the first time.

One wonders how many illegals Nancy Pelosi has working her ranch/vineyard in California . . .

[slzy]

what we need to do is hang the people who employ illegals and march the illegas back over the border. but we are so gutless,and so cowardly we will be killed by being trampled by a flock of geese. until we can reinstill a sense of will where we would prefer to starve to death instead of depending on illegal labor we will remain a nation that deserves to be ruled by women the likes of pelosi and clinton. don't ask me how i really feel,you do not want to get me started.

[The Rabbi]

I would ask who would want to employ anyone with that kind of restriction.  But....

[Vodka7]

until we can reinstill a sense of will where we would prefer to starve to death instead of depending on illegal labor we will remain a nation that deserves to be ruled by women the likes of pelosi and clinton.

I agree that illegal immigration is a bad thing, but really, when have we ever had such a sense of will?  First there was slavery, and when we got over that, we used all the Irish, Chinese, and Italians we could get our hands on to do our dirty work.  Now it's the mexicans.  Underpaid and/or illegal labor has a long tradition in the states.

The real problems are the numbers of Mexicans come over, and their (generalizing here, but you've all seen and know what I'm talking about) refusal to assimilate into our culture.  A phrase that's always pissed me off is "salad bowl" when people are talking about the United States.  We are a *melting pot*--no matter what goes in, what comes out is American.  With the salad bowl analogy, even though the pieces come together to make a salad, you can still point and say "that is a piece of lettuce."  Too many immigrants want to live in America without making an effort to become Americans.  I used to go into Wendy's outside of Grand Central on Lexington fairly regularly when I lived in the city, and every time I ordered a "number six, no mayo" it became a "numero seis como mayo."  (I still don't understand why it was como mayo and not sin mayo, but whatever.)

And this isn't a barrio in New Mexico or a mexican neighborhood in LA.  This is midtown Manhattan.  I mean, really, how much English do you have to know to work at Wendy's?  Maybe, tops, fifty words?  If you can't handle that you're not trying and just don't care.

[The Rabbi]

Why does it bother you that people don't want to learn English?  My great-grandfather lived here probably 50 years and never learned English beyond a few words.  He was poor all his life too, not coincidentally.  But it was a choice he made.  If you don't like the help at the Manhatten restaurant, go somewhere where they speak English.
I dont have any problem with the salad bowl analogy.  As long as there is some shared culture and agreement on values (Palestinians living here dont set off car bombs near my synagogue and I wont assasinate their leaders) then there's no problem.

[Vodka7]

For me, it shows a pride and disrespect to the nation you're in to not try to learn any of the language or assimilate.

This is a poor example, but it's the only one I got: a few years ago I went to Egypt for a month.  Lived in Cairo.  Didn't speak a word of Arabic, but I occaisionally was alone, without an interpretor, or just wanted to run some errands to help out the people I was staying with.  The first time I went out for groceries, I went to the corner market five minutes away and basically pointed at what I wanted, and the guy typed a number in a calculator and flipped it around so I could see how much I owed and pay him.  Of course, I felt like an idiot for being in a foreign country and acting like the Arrogant American, so when I got home, I asked how to say the things I bought in Arabic, and I repeated them until a stranger would have a good chance of understanding me.

So the next time I went back, I was able to ask for my Viceroy nanea and my kilo leben, and he understood and even told me my total in English--I met him half way, and he met me half way.  I don't see enough immigrants trying to do the same here.  And it's not just the mexicans--I have friends from China whose parents have been here since the 70's and early 80's who have never left Flushing and can't speak any English.

[The Rabbi]

OK. Thats your opinion.
I'll point out that its a huge difference between being a tourist in a foreign country and being a US citizen.  In my house I can speak whatever language I want.

[Sindawe]

In my house I can speak whatever language I want.

True, and that is not really an issue here.  It DOES become an issue when you stop by my retail establishment and start haranguing at me to learn Hebrew, print all my signs in both English and Hebrew so that you are not inconvenienced, have ballots printed up in Hebrew and call me an insensitive racist when I ask you to speak English.

At that point you're gonna be classified as a ch'rowling p'taq and firmly shown the door.

[The Rabbi]

Has anyone hassled you to learn Spanish?  Has any government decreed that your governmental business must be done in Spanish?  Have they come to your retail establishment, like in Quebec, and told you what languages your signs must be posted in?
No, I think not.

[doczinn]

Has any government decreed that your governmental business must be done in Spanish?  Have they come to your retail establishment, like in Quebec, and told you what languages your signs must be posted in?
No, I think not.

Here in California, at least, they've spent increasingly large amounts of my money ensuring that people who speak only Spanish, (or Chinese, Korean, Tagalog, or Vietnamese), can conduct business in those languages. And yes, many businesses (landlords, for example) must have their forms available in all of those languages.

[The Rabbi]

Not the same thing.  Not even close.

[doczinn]

Not even close.

You're kidding, right?

[The Rabbi]

Not even close.

You're kidding, right?

No, I thought you were.

[doczinn]

You don't see the similarity between:

Have they come to your retail establishment, like in Quebec, and told you what languages your signs must be posted in?

and:

many businesses (landlords, for example) must have their forms available in all of those languages.

?

[The Rabbi]

They are both written in English.