Author Topic: Iran seems to be getting.... Frisky.  (Read 7672 times)

dogmush

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Re: Iran seems to be getting.... Frisky.
« Reply #75 on: July 23, 2019, 08:50:24 AM »
So Iran takes ....4? British tankers hostage ... and ...their legal justification is "pretty damn thin?? ?? "

Really?

Can Iran do whatever it wants with no consequences?


I guess so....they already export butt-loads of terrorism .....

If they try to Pearl Harbor the fifth fleet,  it will not end well for Iran.  

I find it difficult to believe anyone on this forum would attempt to defend or justify Iran's actions .... perhaps I accidentally fell through a spacewarp  into an evil mirror universe ..... [tinfoil]

In the order you asked:

1 British tanker.

No, they can't do whatever they want with no consequence, hence the sanctions that are currently destroying their economy.

Pearl Harbor didn't end well for the Japanese either, but there was a few rough years before the end.

I'm not defending Iran's actions, I'm pointing out that we can't pin any real international crime on them. All the chest thumping you see around forums like this ends in US being the aggressor, and in some cases breaking the law. 

dogmush

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Re: Iran seems to be getting.... Frisky.
« Reply #76 on: July 23, 2019, 08:51:53 AM »
Picking fights with religious fanatics?   Oh.  You must mean September 11, 2001.... when the Twin Trade Towers viciously swatted a couple of planes being flown by JihadI nutcakes when their pilots died of natural causes  --

No.  Just. NO.   I am not going to continue this idiocy with someone who thinks WE  attacked THEM.


No, I didn't actually. But good on you for breaking out that Jump to Conclusions Mat.

TommyGunn

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Re: Iran seems to be getting.... Frisky.
« Reply #77 on: July 23, 2019, 09:58:41 AM »
In the order you asked:

1 British tanker.

No, they can't do whatever they want with no consequence, hence the sanctions that are currently destroying their economy.

Pearl Harbor didn't end well for the Japanese either, but there was a few rough years before the end.

I'm not defending Iran's actions, I'm pointing out that we can't pin any real international crime on them. All the chest thumping you see around forums like this ends in US being the aggressor, and in some cases breaking the law. 

The sanctions, iirc,  we're on Iran prior to the tanker fiasco. 
Whether it's one or four tankers, I think hijacking them is usually considered a crime.    It is not equivalent to the USCG interdiction some drug running cartel submarine (not a flagged vessel),  having a military force board and take over a flagged vessel of a sovereign country strikes me as being eminently worthy of being a crime.  Perhaps even an act of war.
You may not be defending Iran .... but you're sure doing a great imitation of it ....
MOLON LABE   "Through ignorance of what is good and what is bad, the life of men is greatly perplexed." ~~ Cicero

TommyGunn

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Re: Iran seems to be getting.... Frisky.
« Reply #78 on: July 23, 2019, 10:00:58 AM »
No, I didn't actually. But good on you for breaking out that Jump to Conclusions Mat.

If you don't want me to conclude what I did,  you'd better learn to express yourself more clearly.  My conclusion might have been wrong .... but I only got there from responding to what YOU posted.
MOLON LABE   "Through ignorance of what is good and what is bad, the life of men is greatly perplexed." ~~ Cicero

Ron

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Re: Iran seems to be getting.... Frisky.
« Reply #79 on: July 23, 2019, 10:47:02 AM »
If it was an act of war, it wasn't an act of war against the USA.



For the invisible things of him since the creation of the world are clearly seen, being perceived through the things that are made, even his everlasting power and divinity, that they may be without excuse. Because knowing God, they didn’t glorify him as God, and didn’t give thanks, but became vain in their reasoning, and their senseless heart was darkened. Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools.

TommyGunn

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Re: Iran seems to be getting.... Frisky.
« Reply #80 on: July 23, 2019, 10:55:43 AM »
If it was an act of war, it wasn't an act of war against the USA.

True.  Despite certain conclusions being erroneously drawn by ... certain Un named members ... I AM NOT  advocating America going to war against Iran.

I'm really essentially saying this:  If Iran perceives what it is doing achieves the ends it wants, it will continue to employ the same means to obtain future desires.  Risk>reward. 
If the world wants Iran to stop doing this,  Iran must be taught that it is very unprofitable to use these methods.
Maybe the sanctions will work .... maybe not.
Right now England is the country missing a vessel.  They are apparently debating their response right now.  As they have a new P. M. it will be .... interesting to see what happens, and when ....
MOLON LABE   "Through ignorance of what is good and what is bad, the life of men is greatly perplexed." ~~ Cicero

dogmush

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Re: Iran seems to be getting.... Frisky.
« Reply #81 on: July 23, 2019, 03:53:37 PM »
[deep sigh]

Whatever man, it's a discussion forum, and I was trying to discuss some profoundly ignorant statements made by several folks, yourself included, on this thread.  Statements in the vein of "Why don't we just X?".  Well I told you why.  International Maritime Law does exist, and it says what it says no matter how much the Iranians are pissing us off and destabilizing the region.

But sure, I'm an Iranian and Islamic apologist.  That's definitely what my post history on this site points to.

Enjoy your circle jerk.

zxcvbob

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Re: Iran seems to be getting.... Frisky.
« Reply #82 on: July 23, 2019, 05:10:12 PM »
@dogmush: as one of the ignorant -- thanks for not saying stupid -- I appreciated the lesson.  I still think heavily armed and armored decoy ships is part of the solution in Somalia.  (another part is to somehow get China to stop illegally fishing the Somali coast, and the EU dumping toxic waste there)  But we're not talking about Somalia...
"It's good, though..."

dogmush

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Re: Iran seems to be getting.... Frisky.
« Reply #83 on: July 23, 2019, 05:58:28 PM »
@dogmush: as one of the ignorant -- thanks for not saying stupid -- I appreciated the lesson.  I still think heavily armed and armored decoy ships is part of the solution in Somalia.  (another part is to somehow get China to stop illegally fishing the Somali coast, and the EU dumping toxic waste there)  But we're not talking about Somalia...

It can be, although in practice it has limited success.  I personally think it's because, as much as you read about Piracy of the Horn of Africa, the ships nabbed as a percentage of ships in the region is pretty small, so the decoy ship just doesn't get attacked very often.  And you can't have it just troll back and forth because then it's obviously not a merchant ship.

The most effective piracy deterrent in that region is armed private security teams on board ships.  Usually it's just a team with small arms (up to like .50cal/12.7mm) and they are only on the ship for the transit, but they pretty effectively fight off the small boarding crafts the pirates use.  There's also some physical measures that merchant ships can do to make themselves harder to board.  This has worked well for the ships and companies willing to spend the money and effort.  These days, the ships getting nabbed are the smaller, poorer vessels from countries that no one cares about.

The waters off the Horn of Africa also have pretty heavy anti piracy patrols from PRC, Russia, US, EU powers, Iran, and the KSA.  That deters piracy against ships they care about.  It's still not a great place to be a 300ft Liberian flagged ship crewed by Malaysians.

BobR

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Re: Iran seems to be getting.... Frisky.
« Reply #84 on: July 23, 2019, 06:24:59 PM »
Maybe the Royal Marines should start looking at updating their hymn (do they even have one?). You know, something like "from the mudflats of Pehio to the Port of Bandar Abbas". Just sayin. Our Marines already have a hymn and as there are no US citizens in harms way (yet) on this one the UK should be getting the job done one way or the other.

bob

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Re: Iran seems to be getting.... Frisky.
« Reply #85 on: July 23, 2019, 10:48:25 PM »
It can be, although in practice it has limited success.  I personally think it's because, as much as you read about Piracy of the Horn of Africa, the ships nabbed as a percentage of ships in the region is pretty small, so the decoy ship just doesn't get attacked very often.  And you can't have it just troll back and forth because then it's obviously not a merchant ship.

The most effective piracy deterrent in that region is armed private security teams on board ships.  Usually it's just a team with small arms (up to like .50cal/12.7mm) and they are only on the ship for the transit, but they pretty effectively fight off the small boarding crafts the pirates use.  There's also some physical measures that merchant ships can do to make themselves harder to board.  This has worked well for the ships and companies willing to spend the money and effort.  These days, the ships getting nabbed are the smaller, poorer vessels from countries that no one cares about.

The waters off the Horn of Africa also have pretty heavy anti piracy patrols from PRC, Russia, US, EU powers, Iran, and the KSA.  That deters piracy against ships they care about.  It's still not a great place to be a 300ft Liberian flagged ship crewed by Malaysians.

When we caught an already pirated ship we put the creatures in the brig, one in the morgue, the crew lived in a troop berthing. Then we loaded up what few Marines we had on board and a bunch of gunners mates. Then the ship cruised ahead of home base by twenty or so nm. No takers, eventually turned the ship back over to it's crew once we reached Kenya. We actually carried around dead pirate for over a month because we thought someone would want him. Bernie rated a Suez certificate before we sent him somewhere.
AKA Navy Joe   

I'm so contrarian that I didn't respond to the thread.

Hawkmoon

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Re: Iran seems to be getting.... Frisky.
« Reply #86 on: July 23, 2019, 11:39:41 PM »
... (another part is to somehow get China to stop illegally fishing the Somali coast, ...

Just to prolong the aside for another moment: Chinese poaching is a worldwide problem. Chile's tiny Navy and Coast Guard expend a major portion of their time and effort chasing after Chinese ships fishing in Chilean territorial waters.
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dogmush

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Re: Iran seems to be getting.... Frisky.
« Reply #87 on: July 24, 2019, 12:35:42 AM »
Just to prolong the aside for another moment: Chinese poaching is a worldwide problem. Chile's tiny Navy and Coast Guard expend a major portion of their time and effort chasing after Chinese ships fishing in Chilean territorial waters.

China is a worldwide problem.