Mass shooting in the workplace at Virginia Beach

[WLJ]

Why would it only be good for one shot?

The pressure wave basically just shreds the paper. You might get away with a few shots of 22 before that happens but a 45 one or two shots at most.
Plus the paper, what's left of it, would probably ignite after a few shots. I don't if you've ever shot with a suppressor before but they get extremely hot after just a few shoots.

[Hawkmoon]

Or the old oil filter trick
But I think they're only good for maybe one shot IIRC

https://www.everydaynodaysoff.com/2013/01/18/shooting-with-an-oil-filter-suppressor/

[WLJ]

https://www.everydaynodaysoff.com/2013/01/18/shooting-with-an-oil-filter-suppressor/

And guess what, that's a 22.
22lr is around 7-8,000 psi
45ACP 19-20,000
For reference 5.56 is 62,000 psi

[Hawkmoon]

The pressure wave basically just shreds the paper. You might get away with a few shots of 22 before that happens but a 45 one or two shots at most.
Plus the paper, what's left of it, would probably ignite after a few shots. I don't if you've ever shot with a suppressor before but they get extremely hot after just a few shoots.

So how about stainless steel?

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0739MQ2GM/ref=psdc_15727161_t3_B07CCM8QCF

[HeroHog]

RE: lawnmower muffler Suppressors, they would need to be drilled out as the internal baffle(s) would get by the projectile. While thew would probably provide some level of suppression, I doubt it would be much.

[Hawkmoon]

And guess what, that's a 22.
22lr is around 7-8,000 psi
45ACP 19-20,000
For reference 5.56 is 62,000 psi

Ummm ... .22 LR is 24,000 psi

https://saami.org/wp-content/uploads/2019/01/SAAMI-Z299.1-Rimfire-Approved-2018-06-13.pdf

Jump to page 13

[Hawkmoon]

RE: lawnmower muffler Suppressors, they would need to be drilled out as the internal baffle(s) would get by the projectile. While thew would probably provide some level of suppression, I doubt it would be much.

Do they have internal baffles? I think that style muffler is basically a straight-through "glass pack" style.

[WLJ]

Ummm ... .22 LR is 24,000 psi

https://saami.org/wp-content/uploads/2019/01/SAAMI-Z299.1-Rimfire-Approved-2018-06-13.pdf

Jump to page 13

You're right, not sure why 7-8 popped into my head.
I plead permanent insanity

[WLJ]

Do they have internal baffles? I think that style muffler is basically a straight-through "glass pack" style.

Need enough internal space for the for the pressure to drop and the gas to cool. Not sure what 45 would need in that regard although looking at a 45 can should give an idea.

[HeroHog]

The mufflers DO have an internal baffle that is pretty much a plate with a lot of small holes in it.

[WLJ]

Honestly I wonder if we're getting into ATF no no land here or am I getting paranoid?

[WLJ]

of course even at the same pressure (or so) or even less 45 has a much greater pressure volume (if that's the right term) than 22

[HeroHog]

Theory is fine, practice is not.

[WLJ]

At this point we still don't know if he bought one, whether legally or not, or made one.
I remember someone showing how to piece one together at lowes. This guy was supposedly an engineer, it shouldn't take much for an engineer to figure out how.
With a little trial and error I have no doubt I could.

[Hawkmoon]

Honestly I wonder if we're getting into ATF no no land here or am I getting paranoid?

It's not illegal to discuss it. It IS illegal to construct or to possess a suppressor without the prerequisite $200 permission slip. There is (or was) a company that sold the oil filter adapters for $75. [The adapter featured in Hickock45's video] They reportedly had gotten their adapter accepted by the BATFE as a suppressor, so you paid your $75 plus the $200 baksheesh to the government, and you could chew up all the oil filters you could buy. Making your own adapter to use one of these in-line mufflers would be illegal without the tax stamp.

It gets into what the BATFE likes to call "constructive possession." If you own a lawn mower and a spare muffler, no problem. If you own a lawn mower, a firearm, and a muffler -- still no problem. If you own a firearm, a muffler, and a "thingie" that might allow you to attach the aforementioned muffler to the aforementioned firearm -- you could be in deep kimchee because you could put those things together to create an untaxed (ergo illegal) suppressor.

[WLJ]

It's not illegal to discuss it. It IS illegal to construct or to possess a suppressor without the prerequisite $200 permission slip. There is (or was) a company that sold the oil filter adapters for $75. They reportedly had gotten their adapter accepted by the BATFE as a suppressor, so you paid your $75 plus the $200 baksheesh to the government, and you could chew up all the oil filters you could buy. Making your own adapter to use one of these in-line mufflers would be illegal without the tax stamp.

It gets into what the BATFE likes to call "constructive possession." If you own a lawn mower and a spare muffler, no problem. If you own a lawn mover, a firearm, and a muffler -- still no problem. If you own a firearm, a muffler, and a "thingie" that might allow you to attach the aforementioned muffler to the aforementioned firearm -- you could be in deep kimchee because you could put those things together to create an untaxed (ergo illegal) suppressor.

Having a sub 16" barrel AR upper is fine As long as you don't attach it to a lower.

[Hawkmoon]

Having a sub 16" barrel AR upper is fine As long as you don't attach it to a lower.

Correction -- as long as you don't possess a lower. If you have an upper and you have a lower, "constructive possession" says you might put them together.

[Ben]

There doesn't appear to be a connection between the recently purchased firearms and those used in the shooting:

As for weaponry, two .45-caliber pistols were said to have been used by the shooter, and two other guns were recovered at the shooter's home, the chief said. At least three of the weapons were purchased legally, though the history of the fourth was not immediately known. The two weapons used at the municipal center were purchased in 2016 and 2018 by the shooter, officials said.

https://www.foxnews.com/us/virginia-beach-police-zero-in-on-shooters-weapons-cache-and-job-background

[Hawkmoon]

Does anyone know if the Virginia Beach Municipal Center is a "gun free" zone?

[BobR]

More and more it seems that when the guns are purchased legally the media want to make sure it is a headline on an article or 12. I wonder if they are doing this to say"Look, the gun laws we have don't work, they still get guns. We have to pass more laws to make gun ownership more restrictive. If for the safety of us all!!"   


bob

[Hawkmoon]

More and more it seems that when the guns are purchased legally the media want to make sure it is a headline on an article or 12. I wonder if they are doing this to say"Look, the gun laws we have don't work, they still get guns. We have to pass more laws to make gun ownership more restrictive. If for the safety of us all!!"  

True. But there's legal, and then there's legal.

For example, the AR-15 used in the Sandy Hook shooting was bought legally. By the shooter's mother. So it was her gun. Did she give her son permission to use it to shoot up a school? Oh, wait -- he murdered her. So "purchased legally" (by someone) does not equate to "obtained legally" (by the shooter).

Same thing with the fairly recent STEM High School shooting. There were two handguns used. They were stolen by one of the shooters from his parents. So, again ... purchased legally, yes. Obtained legally by the shooter, no. Stolen is stolen. I don't see that stealing a gun from a relative makes it any less a stolen gun than a stolen gun one goon buys from another goon on a street corner late at night.

[Ben]

Single shots are preferable to multi-round handguns, which are preferable to semiautos, which are preferable to AR-15s. At least when the death to time ratio falls on a Tuesday.

https://twitchy.com/brettt-3136/2019/06/01/like-a-chair-scraping-on-the-floor-is-not-what-a-suppressor-sounds-like-to-stephen-gutowski/

[Hawkmoon]

Single shots are preferable to multi-round handguns, which are preferable to semiautos, which are preferable to AR-15s. At least when the death to time ratio falls on a Tuesday.

https://twitchy.com/brettt-3136/2019/06/01/like-a-chair-scraping-on-the-floor-is-not-what-a-suppressor-sounds-like-to-stephen-gutowski/

Well, now ...

In terms of death-to-time ratio, single-shot weapons are preferable to multi-round handguns and handguns are preferable to the semiautomatic, ...

If I read what this says ... in English ... it says that handguns are not semi-automatics. Semi-automatics are something (anything) other than handguns. How did this person ever get to be a senior executive in any government agency, let along Homeland [In]Security?

[HankB]

And guess what, that's a 22.
22lr is around 7-8,000 psi
45ACP 19-20,000
For reference 5.56 is 62,000 psi

Chamber pressure is irrelevant for a suppressor - it's the gas pressure at the muzzle that really matters, plus the volume of gas, of course.

[Hawkmoon]

Chamber pressure is irrelevant for a suppressor - it's the gas pressure at the muzzle that really matters, plus the volume of gas, of course.

True. But if the peak chamber pressure is 8,000 psi, the pressure at a suppressor is unlikely to approach 20,000+ psi. However, if the chamber pressure peaks at 24,000 psi, there's a fair chance the pressure at a suppressor may exceed 8,000 psi.