Mass shooting in the workplace at Virginia Beach

[MechAg94]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m-dCF-5ZT5s&feature=youtu.be

Maybe use an automotive suppressor.  Might look something like this. 

[Hawkmoon]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m-dCF-5ZT5s&feature=youtu.be

Maybe use an automotive suppressor.  Might look something like this. 

"Video unavailable"

[Hawkmoon]

https://nypost.com/2019/06/02/dewayne-craddock-had-been-getting-violent-with-co-workers-before-virginia-beach-shooting-report/

According to the New York Post, the shooter had been getting into arguments with co-workers, and was facing disciplinary action for a fight at work.

I feel so sorry for him. If only he hadn't bought those evil GUNZ! his personality wouldn't have gone off the rails, and none of this would have happened.


And a different report says that he had submitted his resignation:

https://heavy.com/news/2019/05/dewayne-craddock/

Possibly to avoid disciplinary action? Too much speculation -- we need to wait for more hard data to filter out.

[WLJ]

They're going nuts over at TTAG over the thought that Trump is going to ban suppressors.
Not saying he won't but there's usually a lot of tin-foil-hat panic on that site especially in the comments. We'll see.

Are Suppressors Next? Trump: ‘I Don’t Like Them At All’
https://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/2019/06/luis-valdes/are-suppressors-next-trump-i-dont-like-them-at-all/

[Ben]

They're going nuts over at TTAG over the thought that Trump is going to ban suppressors.
Not saying he won't but there's usually a lot of tin-foil-hat panic on that site especially in the comments. We'll see.

Are Suppressors Next? Trump: ‘I Don’t Like Them At All’
https://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/2019/06/luis-valdes/are-suppressors-next-trump-i-dont-like-them-at-all/

God Dammit. He's going to take the word of knucklehead talking head "experts" who are/were cops but actually don't know what they're talking about, e.g., "The tools of assassins". Then he's going to do the same thing he did with bump stocks because, hey, they're not guns - he's not taking guns. He's still a friend of the NRA."

His sons better get with him right quick and give him the low down.

I still haven't gotten around to doing my paperwork. I guess I'd better get my ass in gear before panic buying and/or worse sets in.

[MechAg94]

"Video unavailable"

I just clicked the link and it works fine.   

[Ben]

Also, while we know Shannon Watts is an idiot, note the argument from the supposed gun expert arguing with Gutowski how there are "silencers" and "suppressors" and it would be okay to ban "silencers" (he knows because he saw one when he was 13). Our own side doesn't do us any good in these arguments.

https://twitchy.com/sarahd-313035/2019/06/03/im-not-here-to-do-your-bidding-firearms-expert-and-journo-stephen-gutowski-wipes-the-floor-with-shannon-watts-in-brutal-back-and-forth/

[MechAg94]

God Dammit. He's going to take the word of knucklehead talking head "experts" who are/were cops but actually don't know what they're talking about, e.g., "The tools of assassins". Then he's going to do the same thing he did with bump stocks because, hey, they're not guns - he's not taking guns. He's still a friend of the NRA."

His sons better get with him right quick and give him the low down.

I still haven't gotten around to doing my paperwork. I guess I'd better get my ass in gear before panic buying and/or worse sets in.

It is a bit premature to get worked up about this.  First, the information about the "suppressor" used is all from initial reports.  It would be nice to see more information about it such as who made it, was it registered, etc.  Second, a 4 word comment on the way to doing something else doesn't necessarily mean anything.  We will see.  

Also, a lot of the big gun companies either make sound suppressors or own companies that do.  The entire industry would stand to lose if suppressors were somehow made illegaler or harder to get.  

[MechAg94]

Also, while we know Shannon Watts is an idiot, note the argument from the supposed gun expert arguing with Gutowski how there are "silencers" and "suppressors" and it would be okay to ban "silencers" (he knows because he saw one when he was 13). Our own side doesn't do us any good in these arguments.

https://twitchy.com/sarahd-313035/2019/06/03/im-not-here-to-do-your-bidding-firearms-expert-and-journo-stephen-gutowski-wipes-the-floor-with-shannon-watts-in-brutal-back-and-forth/

I don't know who the guy is arguing with Gutowski.  Looking at his twitter account, he appears to be a Trump supporter, but beyond that, I don't know.

[Ben]

It is a bit premature to get worked up about this.  First, the information about the "suppressor" used is all from initial reports.  It would be nice to see more information about it such as who made it, was it registered, etc.  Second, a 4 word comment on the way to doing something else doesn't necessarily mean anything.  We will see.  

Also, a lot of the big gun companies either make sound suppressors or own companies that do.  The entire industry would stand to lose if suppressors were somehow made illegaler or harder to get.  

A four word comment led to bump stocks going bye bye as an easy win for Trump that didn't upset the firearms community as a whole.

I do agree that we need to wait for verification on if this was in fact a suppressor. If it wasn't, then all will be soon forgotten. If it was, and it gets enough media attention, IMO, Trump will see suppressor restrictions as no different than bump stock restrictions as part of a political give and take and easy sacrifice, unless somebody educates him.

[WLJ]

Also, while we know Shannon Watts is an idiot, note the argument from the supposed gun expert arguing with Gutowski how there are "silencers" and "suppressors" and it would be okay to ban "silencers" (he knows because he saw one when he was 13). Our own side doesn't do us any good in these arguments.

https://twitchy.com/sarahd-313035/2019/06/03/im-not-here-to-do-your-bidding-firearms-expert-and-journo-stephen-gutowski-wipes-the-floor-with-shannon-watts-in-brutal-back-and-forth/

    Silencers reduce a guns noise to a stealthy quiet while suppressors only knock it down enough to preserve hearing, big difference. There's no grounds to slash it, they are NOT the same.
    — John C. Jacobs Jr. (@Flashmx1) June 3, 2019

    This couldn't be further from the truth. Where did you even get this absurd idea from? "Silencers" and "Suppressors" are terms for the same devices. One term ("Suppressors") is simply more descriptive than the other since they don't make gunshots silent.
    — Stephen Gutowski (@StephenGutowski) June 3, 2019

    Because I've been around guns, gun shows, military weapons demonstrations and I have a licensed suppressor and seen many silencers demonstrated as obviously you have not.
    — John C. Jacobs Jr. (@Flashmx1) June 3, 2019

    I have a suppressed rifle it goes bang, I've seen a silenced .45 that goes phfft, you are a troll or some other creature with a agenda.

    — John C. Jacobs Jr. (@Flashmx1) June 3, 2019

    I saw it at angun demonstration at Fort Lee Va. when I was thirteen, 59 now, it was an assassin's pistol and not on the market, green wrinkle finish, quick break down and cry he action made more noise than the report.

    — John C. Jacobs Jr. (@Flashmx1) June 3, 2019

[HeroHog]

Shooter was violent with co-workers before Virginia Beach shooting
https://nypost.com/2019/06/02/dewayne-craddock-had-been-getting-violent-with-co-workers-before-virginia-beach-shooting-report/

[HeroHog]

Huh, he was black, for some reason, I didn't know that. Ya would have thought the media would have mentioned that at some point... 

[Pb]

Huh, he was black, for some reason, I didn't know that. Ya would have thought the media would have mentioned that at some point... 

It's odd, but black mass murderers usually kill their coworkers.

[MechAg94]

A four word comment led to bump stocks going bye bye as an easy win for Trump that didn't upset the firearms community as a whole.

I do agree that we need to wait for verification on if this was in fact a suppressor. If it wasn't, then all will be soon forgotten. If it was, and it gets enough media attention, IMO, Trump will see suppressor restrictions as no different than bump stock restrictions as part of a political give and take and easy sacrifice, unless somebody educates him.

We will see if Chris Cox and Wayne LaPierre put out a letter suggesting Trump outlaw suppressors. 

[T.O.M.]

Just read what the Virginia Governor is calling for in response...
1. Ban on "silencers"
2. Ban on "high capacity" magazines
3. Universal background checks
4. Limit to one gun purchase per month
5. Red Flag laws
6. New laws restricting firearms in public buildings and places.

[Hawkmoon]

Just read what the Virginia Governor is calling for in response...
1. Ban on "silencers"
2. Ban on "high capacity" magazines
3. Universal background checks
4. Limit to one gun purchase per month
5. Red Flag laws
6. New laws restricting firearms in public buildings and places.

1. Would the victims be any less dead if one of the two guns reportedly used had not had a "silencer"?
2. Shooters will just carry more magazines, and practice speed reloads
3. The guns were bought legally. What would this change?
4. One of the two guns was bought in 1986, the other in 1988.
5. This guy hadn't been flagged for anything.
6. I thought the Virginia Beach Municipal Complex was already a gun-free zone. How much more illegaler can it be, and how's that going to stop a shooter?

[WLJ]

Make it double secret illegal!

[WLJ]

Also calling for a ban on "assault weapons" and.............. Bump stocks   


VA Gov. Northam Calls Special Legislative Session on Gun Control After Virginia Beach Shooting
https://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/2019/06/daniel-zimmerman/va-governor-calls-special-session-on-gun-control-after-virginia-beach-shooting/

[Perd Hapley]

If you read far enough down in this article, they cite the NY Times as saying about 3/4 of mass shooting perpetrators are black. And about 3/4 of the victims are black.

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2016/may/23/mass-shootings-tracker-analysis-us-gun-control-reddit

All depends on how you define your terms, of course.


Also:  https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2017/10/what-the-white-mass-shooter-myth-gets-right-and-wrong-about-killers-demographics.html

What those initial Mother Jones numbers showed, though, was that white people weren’t overrepresented among mass shooters. The media outlet had found that roughly 70 percent of the shooters in mass killings were white—certainly a majority. But according to Census Bureau estimates for 2012, whites accounted for 73.9 percent of all Americans. (Keep in mind that the definition of whiteness is both vague and forever changing. In the 2010 census, the “white” category includes those whose families originate in Europe, the Middle East, and North Africa. Mother Jones, for its part, categorizes one Moroccan immigrant killer as “white”; leaves the race field blank for a Turkish immigrant; and describes several shooters of Pakistani, Palestinian, Afghan and Kuwaiti extraction as “other.”)

I’m not sure where Kimmel and Leek got their stat about mass murders perpetrated by teenagers, but that figure, too, wasn’t that far off from U.S. demographics. At any rate, it certainly wasn’t true—as many argued then, and many do today—that mass shooters were “almost exclusively” or “disproportionately” or “nearly all” white. (Mass shooters are disproportionately men, however—more on that below.)

Since 2012, Mother Jones has added 29 more mass-shooting events to its database (and tweaked its definition of the crime to fit with new federal guidelines that placed the threshold at three victims instead of four). In this bigger data set, the proportion of white mass shooters drops down to 56 percent, by my count. Judging by those newer numbers, and the most current census estimate that 76.9 percent of Americans are white, the whites-are-overrepresented-among-mass-shooters meme appears even less accurate. Perpetrators that Mother Jones classifies as Asian make up 7.4 percent of the data set, versus an estimated 5.7 percent of the population, while those MoJo identifies as black represent 17.0 percent of the mass shooters in the database versus an estimated 13.3 percent of the population. According to this data set, then, Asians and black Americans are overrepresented among mass shooters by about the same proportion (a bit more than one-fourth) that whites are underrepresented. This means the population rate of mass shootings by whites (at least according to the tiny sample measured in the MoJo database) is 0.021 per 100,000 people, while the corresponding rate of mass shootings by blacks is 1.7 times higher, at 0.037. 

[Pb]

If Trump keeps spouting his mouth off about suppressors, he can go *&T^ himself. 

[French G.]

Waiting to see what happens with special session. Time to call my state critters, hopefully be a good protest there too.

[WLJ]

My Tin Foil Hat is starting to itch considering Virginia Beach happened just in time to possibly. I said possibly, influence this

BREAKING: Supreme Court Won’t Hear Case Challenging Silencer Regulation
https://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/2019/06/daniel-zimmerman/breaking-supreme-court-wont-hear-case-challenging-silencer-regulation/

[Pb]

My Tin Foil Hat is starting to itch considering Virginia Beach happened just in time to possibly. I said possibly, influence this

BREAKING: Supreme Court Won’t Hear Case Challenging Silencer Regulation
https://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/2019/06/daniel-zimmerman/breaking-supreme-court-wont-hear-case-challenging-silencer-regulation/

The #$^* Supremes won't even say you have a right to a 15 round pistol mag and these people thought it was a good time to challenge the NFA!

[brimic]

I don't know about the suppressor part of this .... one report I heard said people heard gunshots.  I know suppressors don't make guns go "pffft" like on tv .... but can the average Joe today really know what a suppressed gun sounds like?

The extended mag part might be true though .....

I guess the facts will straighten out as more is reported .....

A suppressed .45 pistol is pretty loud.... 130db or so... about on par with a framing nail gun.