Secondly, do any of you REALLY think torturing a terrorist to get the info needed NOW to save millions of lives is a bad thing? If you do, then you are part of the problem here, not part of the solution. Most Americans don't have the guts for war, or any sense of self preservation. Sad.
Yes, but the ticking bomb terrorist is a very rare occurance. Politician dissants (which may someday include gun owners), unpopular ethnic groups, etc are much more common. Play the odds.
I recall a case of an American officer pulling out his sidearm, firing a round into the ground next to a gentleman recently captured, and send the next one was going in his head if the gentleman did not cough up the location of a mortar team. This is an example of heat of the moment stretching of the Geneva Conventions, a far more realistic example than "terrorist with a nuclear weapon."
Does the officer deserve to be tossed in the clink? Of course not, any reasonable person understands that under stressful situations (and getting shot at definitely counts) folks deserve some leeway. Some leeway does not mean they are immune to the UCMJ, the War Crimes Act (look it up), and the GC/Hague.
Systemic institutionalized torture is a different story. It is pure evil, on the moral side. It is a pure waste of time, on the practical side. I remember being told by indigenous folks that you torture for three reasons. Entertainment, revenge or to force a confession. Not sure how much I'd agree, but they had practical experience where I did not. So there you go. None of them expected torture to yield much or any useful information. There are far superior methods of gathering reliable intelligence.
Mannlicher, you have a GWOT medal? I'm just curious. There are things we do not do. DO NOT DO. We are Americans, not some tin pot third world rabble. Things can turn charlie foxtrot in a hurry. But there is a huge difference between that and institutionalized conduct.
Well there is that pesky notion of intent. Intent matters. The ends matter. If torture is the only method left available to discover the location of a nuclear weapon that will kill 1000's or even millions then it is justified. Of course in the absolutist world it is preferable to just let the million's die - after all in their minds, since the question, where does one draw the line is not answerable we just won't answer it and will let the die fall where it may. Kinda like the notion many anti-gunners have that a naked, raped and dead woman in an alley is preferable to her having shot and killed her assailant.
People love to toss that "terrorist with a nuclear weapon" example out there to legitimize illegal, unethical and immoral behavior. Here's a reality check. There are no terrorists with a functional nuclear warhead. None. Zip. Notta. Unlike in Hollywood, nuclear weapons cannot be assembled by slapping random electronics onto a 1kg chunk of uranium, and pressing a button on some ueber-ultra sophisticated triggering device to cause a explosion that blows the world into two halves, causes global warming and kicks a puppy. Nuclear weapons ain't the easiest to use, deploy and maintain even if you have the best technology on the planet. And few countries, including Russia, have nuclear technology remotely close to the US's level.
What are the limits of torture? Just mental/emotional abuse? Physical abuse? Sexual abuse? Rape? According to the Article 15-6 investigation of the 800th Military Police Brigade by Maj. Gen. Antonio M. Taguba (aka, the Taguba Report), these have already occurred. I can think of no reason why a soldier found guilty in a clear cut charge of rape of a detainee should not be executed, in public.
A bit of a side note... All of the above to 'foreigners'? Is it ok to do such things to fellow Americans? What is the threshold? What warrents torture up to and including death, without conviction or even charges?
But that's me. I have those opinions because they were drilled into me from the beginning of my service, and I drilled it into my FNG's. This was the core of all of it: We are Americans. No further justification is required.
