Author Topic: Another immigration policy change  (Read 1123 times)

T.O.M.

  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 6,407
Another immigration policy change
« on: August 28, 2019, 06:35:11 PM »
No longer will the children born overseas of Americans living abroad receive automatic naturalized citizenship. 

https://www.businessinsider.com/trump-us-troops-kids-born-overseas-dont-get-automatic-citizenship-2019-8

Article indicates that the parents of these children will need to apply for citizenship for the children.  Confusing, but the article seems to indicate that such children of government employees would need immigrant visas to come into the U.S. to complete the application process.

Now, if one of the parents is not a citizen, this may make sense.  But if mommy works for the State Department overseas, and daddy is also American, why does this make sense?  Looks like service member children also fall under this, but they can finish the process while still overseas.

Thoughts?
No, I'm not mtnbkr.  ;)

a.k.a. "our resident Legal Smeagol."...thanks BryanP
"Anybody can give legal advice - but only licensed attorneys can sell it."...vaskidmark

Hawkmoon

  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 27,263
Re: Another immigration policy change
« Reply #1 on: August 28, 2019, 06:44:55 PM »
Wrong time, wrong policy. Children born to American citizens should be American citizens automatically. I'm much more concerned with things like "tourist" citizenship, and chain citizenship. Most importantly, while I'm on the fence about children born to legal resident aliens, I absolutely oppose citizenship for children born in the U.S. to parents who are here illegally -- even if only one of them is here illegally. We should not be rewarding illegal immigration in any way, shape, or form.
- - - - - - - - - - - - -
100% Politically Incorrect by Design

MechAg94

  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 33,742
Re: Another immigration policy change
« Reply #2 on: August 28, 2019, 07:07:02 PM »
It sounds like they will be able to qualify as naturalized citizens, they just have to turn in some paperwork on it.  It seems to me it would makes some sense that the records need to get to the US Govt at some point.  This could be no big deal or a bureaucratic nightmare.  Depends on how it is set up. 
“It is much more important to kill bad bills than to pass good ones.”  ― Calvin Coolidge

Ben

  • Administrator
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 46,010
  • I'm an Extremist!
Re: Another immigration policy change
« Reply #3 on: August 28, 2019, 07:08:28 PM »
Yeah, this makes no sense to me either. It's bass akwards. We need to stop making the children of foreign nationals who were born on US soil citizens automatically (and I was one as my immigrant parents hadn't yet gotten their citizenship when I was born). The idea that because a child is born to a US citizen who happens to be out of the country at the time should not automatically be a US citizen is kinda nuts.
"I'm a foolish old man that has been drawn into a wild goose chase by a harpy in trousers and a nincompoop."

Ben

  • Administrator
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 46,010
  • I'm an Extremist!
"I'm a foolish old man that has been drawn into a wild goose chase by a harpy in trousers and a nincompoop."

T.O.M.

  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 6,407
Re: Another immigration policy change
« Reply #5 on: August 28, 2019, 10:12:18 PM »
Thanks Ben. What's funny is NBC has issued the correction, but my phone is showing other news sources still reporting that Trump is cancelling automatic citizenship for natural children of American military personnel born overseas.  Sou is like everyone needs to try and get on the same page or the are going to look stupid.  Or stupider.
No, I'm not mtnbkr.  ;)

a.k.a. "our resident Legal Smeagol."...thanks BryanP
"Anybody can give legal advice - but only licensed attorneys can sell it."...vaskidmark

Sindawe

  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 2,938
  • Vashneesht
Re: Another immigration policy change
« Reply #6 on: August 28, 2019, 10:23:56 PM »
Strange, I thought it was always that way.  Mabe 'cause my ex back in the day had to be naturalized since she was born in Japan to American citizens.
I am free, no matter what rules surround me. If I find them tolerable, I tolerate them; if I find them too obnoxious, I break them. I am free because I know that I alone am morally responsible for everything I do.

zxcvbob

  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 12,232
Re: Another immigration policy change
« Reply #7 on: August 29, 2019, 02:19:21 AM »
I thought a baby born overseas to 2 US citizen parents was automatically a "natural born" US citizen -- but there might be extra paperwork involved unless they were born in a US embassy or perhaps on a military base.

I have a doctor friends who was born in the US embassy in Cameroon (might not have been called that at the time.)  His parents were missionaries.  He travels to Africa occasionally, but he avoids Cameroon because he doesn't want to get conscripted (kidnapped) into their military.  I don't know if that's a real risk or an imaginary one.  In college, he tried to join some kind of African-American group just to cause trouble, and they didn't see the humor in it.  He was more African than probably any of them even tho' he's white :)  I bet they would really get upset with a white applicant from South Africa.
"It's good, though..."

Ben

  • Administrator
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 46,010
  • I'm an Extremist!
Re: Another immigration policy change
« Reply #8 on: August 29, 2019, 07:54:41 AM »
Thanks Ben. What's funny is NBC has issued the correction, but my phone is showing other news sources still reporting that Trump is cancelling automatic citizenship for natural children of American military personnel born overseas.  Sou is like everyone needs to try and get on the same page or the are going to look stupid.  Or stupider.

Yeah, typical of the Twitter news era (Lawrence O'Donnell being the latest example). A "reporter" finds something they want to be true because of their political biases, plasters it all over the internets where it gains 10,000,000 views, then does a retraction that gains 142 views.
"I'm a foolish old man that has been drawn into a wild goose chase by a harpy in trousers and a nincompoop."

T.O.M.

  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 6,407
Re: Another immigration policy change
« Reply #9 on: August 29, 2019, 08:36:18 AM »
Reading in articles that Trump has expressed a desire to end all birthright citizenship, even for children of Americans born in America.  Articles say that he wants all citizenship to be granted by a .Gov application process.   Anyone know if this is remotely accurate?  If so, this would create a massive bureaucracy for ICE...
No, I'm not mtnbkr.  ;)

a.k.a. "our resident Legal Smeagol."...thanks BryanP
"Anybody can give legal advice - but only licensed attorneys can sell it."...vaskidmark

Ben

  • Administrator
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 46,010
  • I'm an Extremist!
Re: Another immigration policy change
« Reply #10 on: August 29, 2019, 08:40:49 AM »
Reading in articles that Trump has expressed a desire to end all birthright citizenship, even for children of Americans born in America.  Articles say that he wants all citizenship to be granted by a .Gov application process.   Anyone know if this is remotely accurate?  If so, this would create a massive bureaucracy for ICE...

Seems like that would be contrary to basic principles the country was founded upon.
"I'm a foolish old man that has been drawn into a wild goose chase by a harpy in trousers and a nincompoop."

MechAg94

  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 33,742
Re: Another immigration policy change
« Reply #11 on: August 29, 2019, 09:11:20 AM »
Reading in articles that Trump has expressed a desire to end all birthright citizenship, even for children of Americans born in America.  Articles say that he wants all citizenship to be granted by a .Gov application process.   Anyone know if this is remotely accurate?  If so, this would create a massive bureaucracy for ICE...
Care to post any of those articles?  I would like to see what Trump actually said. 

I would agree with the part about restricting birthright citizenship for children of illegals or people not hear on a permanent visa.  For children of citizens, I am not sure what point that would serve.  They end up filing paperwork to get a social security card anyway so it isn't like they won't know that person exists.
“It is much more important to kill bad bills than to pass good ones.”  ― Calvin Coolidge

T.O.M.

  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 6,407
Re: Another immigration policy change
« Reply #12 on: August 29, 2019, 09:24:02 AM »
Care to post any of those articles?  I would like to see what Trump actually said. 

I would agree with the part about restricting birthright citizenship for children of illegals or people not hear on a permanent visa.  For children of citizens, I am not sure what point that would serve.  They end up filing paperwork to get a social security card anyway so it isn't like they won't know that person exists.

I was about to link the article from an acquaintance's Facebook page, but I'm not going to after reading it all.  It's a crap article from USA Today in which the author (I chose that word for a reason.  He's writing fiction.) talks of ending all birthright citizenship, but then goes on to say that Trump made a promise to end it for the children of illegals.  The author stretches this to mean that all bithright would end, and the children of citizens would need to file paperwork with .gov to get citizenship for their children.  Sorry I didn't read the entire article before bringing it up.
No, I'm not mtnbkr.  ;)

a.k.a. "our resident Legal Smeagol."...thanks BryanP
"Anybody can give legal advice - but only licensed attorneys can sell it."...vaskidmark

MechAg94

  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 33,742
Re: Another immigration policy change
« Reply #13 on: August 29, 2019, 10:34:22 AM »
That sounds typical of what passes for news these days.

https://www.wsj.com/articles/good-riddance-to-the-flores-decree-11566859594?redirect=amp#click=https://t.co/M9XFYxXMjt
I came across this article that is related.  I can't read the entire thing, but it appears to be more consistent with what we have seen the Trump administration do.
“It is much more important to kill bad bills than to pass good ones.”  ― Calvin Coolidge

dogmush

  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 13,868
Re: Another immigration policy change
« Reply #14 on: August 29, 2019, 11:23:09 AM »
I thought a baby born overseas to 2 US citizen parents was automatically a "natural born" US citizen -- but there might be extra paperwork involved unless they were born in a US embassy or perhaps on a military base.

I have a doctor friends who was born in the US embassy in Cameroon (might not have been called that at the time.)  His parents were missionaries.  He travels to Africa occasionally, but he avoids Cameroon because he doesn't want to get conscripted (kidnapped) into their military.  I don't know if that's a real risk or an imaginary one.  In college, he tried to join some kind of African-American group just to cause trouble, and they didn't see the humor in it.  He was more African than probably any of them even tho' he's white :)  I bet they would really get upset with a white applicant from South Africa.

This is true, and yes there is one extra sheet of paper.  American parents that have a child overseas must obtain a Consular "Report of Birth Abroad".  This grant the kid birthright citizenship and serves as a de facto Birth Certificate, since the actual certificate is often in a foreign language. I routinely offer my Birth Certificate when asked for it and watch folks try and read the Italian, before giving them the ROBA.

This process has not changed.

As Ben pointed out the article is so obscurely worded as to cross the line into lying.  The policy change only applies to a *very* small set of cases of a foreign born child (born to foreign parents) that is adopted by US citizens, in a foreign country.  They would then have to apply for naturalization papers for that child, which, in that category, is pretty much automatically granted.  ICE changed their policy to conform to the Dep. of State's policies because the differences in the two was causing confusion.

This (as you might expect) blew up on US Military social media pages and took about 15 minutes to run down the truth and spread it on the same pages.  I guess the media couldn't be bothered to read the policy. 

Perd Hapley

  • Superstar of the Internet
  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 61,409
  • My prepositions are on/in
Re: Another immigration policy change
« Reply #15 on: August 29, 2019, 11:38:37 AM »
It's just another way the Trump administration is going to kill us all.
"Doggies are angel babies!" -- my wife

Hawkmoon

  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 27,263
Re: Another immigration policy change
« Reply #16 on: August 29, 2019, 01:46:26 PM »

As Ben pointed out the article is so obscurely worded as to cross the line into lying.  The policy change only applies to a *very* small set of cases of a foreign born child (born to foreign parents) that is adopted by US citizens, in a foreign country.  They would then have to apply for naturalization papers for that child, which, in that category, is pretty much automatically granted.  ICE changed their policy to conform to the Dep. of State's policies because the differences in the two was causing confusion.


This is what we went through when my late wife and I adopted her granddaughter. The adoption was in her native country. It was all coordinated with/through the U.S. Consulate in that country. As soon as the adoption was finalized, we took the documents to the consulate, they did their thing, and a couple of weeks later the girl had a resident visa and we all came home. A few weeks later we were given an appointment at the office of what is now called ICE in the state capital. At that appointment, the young lady surrendered her native country passport and was given a certificate of naturalization. She was also photographed and fingerprinted, and a couple of weeks later her U.S. passport arrived in the mail.

As is typical of many countries (which would explain why someone born in Cameroon might not want to go back there), my daughter's native country regards anyone born there as a citizen for life so, as far as they are concerned, she is now a dual citizen. On her next visit to the native country, my wife took her to whatever agency issues passports and she got a new passport from her country of birth. So she now has two passports.
- - - - - - - - - - - - -
100% Politically Incorrect by Design