Finger Gun is a Crime

[Ben]

Old guy gets flipped off. Returns the favor, but uses the "finger gun". Convicted of disorderly conduct and fined. Lost his appeal.

When I saw the headline, my first reaction was, "must be England again". Nope, sadly USA.

https://www.foxnews.com/us/pennsylvania-gun-like-hand-gesture-crime

Also:

[Hawkmoon]

How convenient that the video shows only one side of the story.

[MikeB]

Oh yes, the wonderful PA Supreme Court. They are worse than SCOTUS when it comes to finding ways to "interpret" laws. We unfortunately have a whole bunch of liberal justices at the moment, but even when it was supposedly more conservative, they found ways to make bone headed rulings. One example is our non registry handgun registry. It is illegal in PA for the State Police to maintain a registry of firearms, but they do for handguns. All handgun purchases at FFL's have to be reported to the State Police, when they were sued over it, the PA Supreme Court ruled that since it was a "sales database" and didn't include all firearms that it was not a registry and legal ...

Stupid of the guy to do either way. Always better to walk away or de-escalate. The old sticks and stones thing our mothers used to say when someone made a rude gesture or said something not nice.

[griz]

At the time of the incident in 2018, the female neighbor had a "no contact" order against the neighbor who felt threatened,

Sounds like there is some relevant history.  Questions like, why would you walk by his house if you had a NC order against him, and did the video show the neighbor flipping him off come to mind.

[Ben]

Stupid of the guy to do either way. Always better to walk away or de-escalate. The old sticks and stones thing our mothers used to say when someone made a rude gesture or said something not nice.

I agree with that. I just hate something like this becoming a "crime". Slippery slope.

[BobR]

It is illegal in PA for the State Police to maintain a registry of firearms, but they do for handguns. All handgun purchases at FFL's have to be reported to the State Police, when they were sued over it, the PA Supreme Court ruled that since it was a "sales database" and didn't include all firearms that it was not a registry and legal ...

Much the same here in WA, but in true government fashion they screwed to pooch trying to keep it updated. I don't know if they are still woefully behind or not.

https://www.khq.com/news/state-gun-database-lacks-info-on-thousands-of-handgun-sales/article_9cd3a6ff-64e7-5504-89c9-cf9399770c28.html

bob

[MikeB]

Much the same here in WA, but in true government fashion they screwed to pooch trying to keep it updated. I don't know if they are still woefully behind or not.

https://www.khq.com/news/state-gun-database-lacks-info-on-thousands-of-handgun-sales/article_9cd3a6ff-64e7-5504-89c9-cf9399770c28.html

bob

Yeah, unfortunately or SP seems to do a good job keeping it current for items sold since they implemented. Besides the fact it is an illegal registry no matter what the Supreme Court says, some cops have used a gun not showing as ‘registered’ to someone in the DB as reason to confiscate the firearm. Of course handguns sold prior to the DB being setup or transferred between spouses, parent to child etc. aren’t in the DB so they won’t be ‘registered’.

[Hawkmoon]

Much the same here in WA, but in true government fashion they screwed to pooch trying to keep it updated. I don't know if they are still woefully behind or not.

https://www.khq.com/news/state-gun-database-lacks-info-on-thousands-of-handgun-sales/article_9cd3a6ff-64e7-5504-89c9-cf9399770c28.html

That's the issue with the PA "database". Despite the fact that it doesn't include handguns from before when the law was enacted, and there's no law that says people moving into Pennsylvania with handguns have to register them, many PA police departments treat the "database" as a registry. If they make a motor vehicle stop and find someone who is carrying legally, with a carry license, they'll run the pistol against the registry-that-isn't-a-registry and if they don't get a hit ... they confiscate the gun as stolen. Then the owner has to figure out how to prove that his gun is his gun.

[MechAg94]

When I heard about this incident, I was thinking that a handgun gesture could be seen as a credible threat in the right circumstances.  I think that requires some context to be a crime.

[Ben]

When I heard about this incident, I was thinking that a handgun gesture could be seen as a credible threat in the right circumstances.  I think that requires some context to be a crime.

I would be interested to see, had the guy done the old "finger across the throat" gesture instead, if it would have been handled the same. I would actually take that more seriously. My dad does the "finger gun" thing all the time, mostly as a gag, and I've seen many people do that one as more of a joke thing.

In this instance the guy may have been serious (again, a stupid move), but it still doesn't seem as threatening to me as many other gestures could be.

[brimic]

Always better to walk away or de-escalate.

This. Its always better to not make other people's problems your own.

[HankB]

As usual, the linked news story in the OP omits the name and contact information for the judge who issued this asinine ruling.

Sunlight is said to be the best disinfectant, and someone in a black robe deserves to experience the nationwide public ridicule he so richly deserves.

[Jamisjockey]

I agree with that. I just hate something like this becoming a "crime". Slippery slope.

Things like "disorderly conduct" were always a slippery slope.