Stop Turning Your Yard into a Hellscape for Halloween

[makattak]

If you live in a city... hell, if you live within sight of anyone... at some point one of those neighbors is gonna do something you don't agree with. It's one of those unwritten understandings of life. Encouraging legal ways to enforce your views on your neighbor is to encourage legal ways for your neighbor to enforce their views on you. Being a *expletive deleted*che about it only ups the probability that the law of unintended consequences will end up biting you. Hard.

The decorations might be an eyesore but they aren't permanent. The decorations are there for a few weeks. The kids are there one night a year and it's one of those things kids can still actually enjoy. My neighbor puts up the most gawdawfully tacky display you've ever seen. Kids come from all over the city by the hundreds to see it. It looks hideous and the street is unpassable for a couple of hours. Does it irritate the crap out of everyone on the block? Yes, but he doesn't encroach on anyone else and we can see the kids are having a ball so we accept it as part of "living in the city". We used to have a neighbor who would go on ranting fits about it but he was an irritable old bastard about everything and everyone anyway. No one shed a tear when he moved.

Brad

There's a difference between tacky and even an eyesore versus decapitated, bleeding heads hanging from every lamppost.

I should note, I don't think I've ever seen anything as bad as she describes in her article. But having a gory murder scene in your front yard for 3 and 4 year olds to walk through is just wrong.

And, the VAST majority of people don't do that. As I've said, I don't think I've seen anything like that before. The closest I can think of was one that was full of "jumps", but nothing disgusting. Scary is fine. Rated "R" blood and gore is not.
 
So I've not seen this but, of course, I don't live in one of the decadent coastal or northern cities where this is more likely to happen.

[Brad Johnson]

And, the VAST majority of people don't do that. As I've said, I don't think I've seen anything like that before. The closest I can think of was one that was full of "jumps", but nothing disgusting. Scary is fine. Rated "R" blood and gore is not.

That's where the slippery slope rears it's ugly head. We have enough legal lunacy floating around because someone was "offended" or got their feelz hurtz by something that is otherwise harmless. We should be trying to pare back that nonsense, not add to it.

I don't care for some of the lawn displays and certainly wouldn't take any child of mine to see them, but I'm not going to actively promote restricting others' right to do so.

Brad

[dogmush]

There's a difference between tacky and even an eyesore versus decapitated, bleeding heads hanging from every lamppost.

I should note, I don't think I've ever seen anything as bad as she describes in her article. But having a gory murder scene in your front yard for 3 and 4 year olds to walk through is just wrong.

I'm not sure I agree with the bolded part.  1st, unless they are my friend's kids, they aren't walking through it, they are walking past it.  Second, I'm trying to think of what one would have to put in their yard for me to agree with "just wrong".  Dead nude bodies? Decorations made of actual decomposing meat? Maybe a recreation of an actual, specific murder, that was easily recognizable*.  Honestly I have lived in cities and I can't think of a display that would, for me, cross the line from "yuck I don't like" that to "just Wrong" that wouldn't also cross the line of an existing obscenity law.

*Even that is iffy.  A realistic recreation of Anne Boleyn's beheading wouldn't strike me as obscene, and one of Che's murder would have me seeking out youngsters to bring buy and show them.

[charby]

I'm not sure I agree with the bolded part.  1st, unless they are my friend's kids, they aren't walking through it, they are walking past it.  Second, I'm trying to think of what one would have to put in their yard for me to agree with "just wrong".  Dead nude bodies? Decorations made of actual decomposing meat? Maybe a recreation of an actual, specific murder, that was easily recognizable*.  Honestly I have lived in cities and I can't think of a display that would, for me, cross the line from "yuck I don't like" that to "just Wrong" that wouldn't also cross the line of an existing obscenity law.

*Even that is iffy.  A realistic recreation of Anne Boleyn's beheading wouldn't strike me as obscene, and one of Che's murder would have me seeking out youngsters to bring buy and show them.

Hell, if I had kids and my neighbor want to have a gore fest party in their front yard, I would see if my kids could help build it, so they know its fake.

[RoadKingLarry]

What if your house looks kind of like a hellscape normally?
It helps keep unwanted visitors away.

[Firethorn]

What if your house looks kind of like a hellscape normally?
It helps keep unwanted visitors away.

[Jamisjockey]

Went for a run yesterday and saw a few yards done up, which brought my mind back to this thread.
The problem with offense and "standards" of community, is that out of 100 people, there would be 100 different levels of offense.  What I will tolerate is different than what my neighbors will, and what their neighbors will. There are hundreds of sects just of Christianity in this country.  Then there's other religions, atheists, satanists, pastafarians, and it goes on.
So she can still *expletive deleted*ck right off.

[MechAg94]

IMO, if someone had a large bloody death scene like some horror movie in their front yard, more than likely they would have families taking pictures with it all evening rather than getting upset. 

[brimic]

Just another busybody 'Karen' who doesn't like what other people do....

[Perd Hapley]

Went for a run yesterday and saw a few yards done up, which brought my mind back to this thread.
The problem with offense and "standards" of community, is that out of 100 people, there would be 100 different levels of offense.  What I will tolerate is different than what my neighbors will, and what their neighbors will. There are hundreds of sects just of Christianity in this country.  Then there's other religions, atheists, satanists, pastafarians, and it goes on.
So she can still *expletive deleted*ck right off.

If we're going to (someday, hypothetically) have a country with limited government, where everyone can do pretty much whatever they want, how is your FU attitude going to work? Do you really think a libertarian/an-cap utopia is going to be a good place to live, if none of your neighbors have any consideration for you, or your kids? Do you really think everyone can be free to follow their own path on sexuality, religion, drugs, guns, whatever, without learning to work together, and giving a care what their neighbors think?

You're like The Operative. You want a better world, but with that attitude, you're not fit to live in it.

You know, our church has never had a sign outside the sanctuary, that says, "No Food or Drink." Until recently, we didn't think we had to tell anyone that you don't bring a cup of coffee and a candy bar into the Sunday morning service. People used to (I think) understand that.* Now, we might do it. When people don't police themselves, or just don't know what to do, that's when top-down rules become socially acceptable. That's probably the main reason why we have such big government today.


*Yeah, I know. You need baby bottles, and crackers for the toddlers. We know that. That would be an exception.

[Perd Hapley]

Why am I not surprised that Joy Pullman has put more thought into this than most of her detractors here, and has already answered your objections in her article.

Read the article, people. She's right. You, well some of you, look silly.

[Declaration Day]

Wow, I have been a member of this community since the early Highroad days.  I never knew we had so many members with a stick up their butt.  I've never placed anything "worse" than a plastic skeleton on my porch, but I think I will re-create the Texas Chainsaw Massacre from now on, just to piss off the butt-hurt whiners of society.

Hell, I am not even a Christian, but I might walk into a church this Sunday with a coffee and a snickers.   

[AZRedhawk44]

Wow, I have been a member of this community since the early Highroad days.  I never knew we had so many members with a stick up their butt.  I've never placed anything "worse" than a plastic skeleton on my porch, but I think I will re-create the Texas Chainsaw Massacre from now on, just to piss off the butt-hurt whiners of society.

Hell, I am not even a Christian, but I might walk into a church this Sunday with a coffee and a snickers.   

Resident anarchist and non-Christian here.

I'm not walking into anyone's skywizard meetings with any food or drink, because I don't want to disturb their efforts to commune with any sky wizards or their zombie offspring.  You know why?  It's not my building.  It's a semi-private building with an explicit purpose, owned by its constituent members and officials.  Its whole purpose is to make those people feel good.  I'm not going to make myself feel better, or make them feel better, munching on a Kit Kat and slurping coffee while they pet rattlesnakes or say special words that they all agree make them resonate with their higher power.  I have no business in that building.

If we're going to (someday, hypothetically) have a country with limited government, where everyone can do pretty much whatever they want, how is your FU attitude going to work? Do you really think a libertarian/an-cap utopia is going to be a good place to live, if none of your neighbors have any consideration for you, or your kids? Do you really think everyone can be free to follow their own path on sexuality, religion, drugs, guns, whatever, without learning to work together, and giving a care what their neighbors think?

You're like The Operative. You want a better world, but with that attitude, you're not fit to live in it.

You know, our church has never had a sign outside the sanctuary, that says, "No Food or Drink." Until recently, we didn't think we had to tell anyone that you don't bring a cup of coffee and a candy bar into the Sunday morning service. People used to (I think) understand that.* Now, we might do it. When people don't police themselves, or just don't know what to do, that's when top-down rules become socially acceptable. That's probably the main reason why we have such big government today.


*Yeah, I know. You need baby bottles, and crackers for the toddlers. We know that. That would be an exception.

That FU attitude works by minding your own business, and KNOWING where your business ends and someone else's business begins.

My Halloween decorations are MY business.  Yours (or lack thereof) are YOUR business.

I'm not going to go over and tear into my neighbor for over the top Halloween decorations, any more than I'm going to go over and tear into my Baptist pastor neighbor for leaving his lights off and not handing out candy to kids.

People have the amazing power to contribute joy and pleasure to one another when they find constructive and compassionate means to do so.  We each do it in different ways.

But I've NEVER seen government able to do it.

[charby]

Why am I not surprised that Joy Pullman has put more thought into this than most of her detractors here, and has already answered your objections in her article.

Read the article, people. She's right. You, well some of you, look silly.

Didn't know you changed your name to "Karen"

[Perd Hapley]

That FU attitude works by minding your own business, and KNOWING where your business ends and someone else's business begins.

My Halloween decorations are MY business.  Yours (or lack thereof) are YOUR business.

Again, read the article. She's talking about her own neighborhood, and things her 4-year-old can't avoid seeing. I'm pretty sure the things her 4-year-old is exposed to her is her business. I'm pretty sure her neighborhood is her business.

I'm not going to go over and tear into my neighbor for over the top Halloween decorations, any more than I'm going to go over and tear into my Baptist pastor neighbor for leaving his lights off and not handing out candy to kids.

People have the amazing power to contribute joy and pleasure to one another when they find constructive and compassionate means to do so.  We each do it in different ways.

But I've NEVER seen government able to do it.

So asking people to have consideration for the children in their neighborhoods, where does that fit? Is that something that so triggers you, you have to go on a rant about some article you've clearly not read?

And again, the point is, if you're just going to have an FU attitude to everyone around you, you're going to end up with a lot of laws your neighbors impose on you, because you can't be dealt with any other way.

[Perd Hapley]

Didn't know you changed your name to "Karen"

Name-calling is so constructive.

[AZRedhawk44]

Again, read the article. She's talking about her own neighborhood, and things her 4-year-old can't avoid seeing. I'm pretty sure the things her 4-year-old is exposed to her is her business. I'm pretty sure her neighborhood is her business.

Her choice of neighborhood is her business.  She has no authority over the property of her neighbors.  She's perfectly free to choose to associate in a different neighborhood if she's really that offended by the tone of a Halloween display.

My University has existed in the north Tacoma neighborhood it sits within for over 100 years.  The quaint Tudor-esque neighborhood around it grew because of the University's presence.

Frequently people move into the neighborhood, and then complain about the frat house 1 block away.  As if they didn't know a University was there, with a dozen Greek presences surrounding it.

Neighborhoods with highly volatile Halloween decorations tend to be in places that attract young and socially active people.  Parental frumpery will be in high contrast with the majority of that neighborhood's ownership.  Far better to live elsewhere.  Or mind your own business.

So asking people to have consideration for the children in their neighborhoods, where does that fit? Is that something that so triggers you, you have to go on a rant about some article you've clearly not read?

And again, the point is, if you're just going to have an FU attitude to everyone around you, you're going to end up with a lot of laws your neighbors impose on you, because you can't be dealt with any other way.

Largely depends on who lived there first.  And what the tone of the neighborhood is.

But ultimately... it's about land ownership.  As in, I own and and you don't.  Or vice-versa.

Your saintly little sprog that probably cussed for the 57th time without your knowledge in kindergarten out on the playground earlier today, isn't going to be damaged while driving by animatronic skeletons sold at Home Depot.

There's a huge difference between the types of FU attitude you and I are espousing.

My FU attitude constrains my behavior to my property.

Your FU attitude sprawls your behavior onto my property.

You tell me which is more cordial.

[AZRedhawk44]

And yes, Fisty, I've read the article.

No pictures of this horrific display of Wiccan doomscaping.

Without pictures, I'm left to the imagination.

I know what Halloween decor costs.  My GF is enamored with Halloween decorating.  We have skeletons in the front yard right now.  One in particular uses a boulder that is always present in our yard, making it look like the boulder has flattened the poor thing.  Tombstones, spiderwebs, etc.  We've laid off any animatronics or heavy illumination tricks because they're spendy.  I gerry-rigged some bicycle headlamps to work as strobes this year, and I'll probably get a better strobe and a fog machine during the post-Halloween closeouts for next year.  I know just how much the animatronics props cost, because she really wants some.  And I look at them and say to myself, "those motors and actuators are really rough and shoddy-looking."

So getting anything that goes beyond my particular taste, and into the movie-caliber level stuff, will cost $10's of thousands of dollars.  That's the threshold where reality blurs into the imagination, where plastic doesn't look nearly so plasticky, fake blood drips into hidden catch pans and is recirculated by a high quality and noiseless pump, and so on.

This is a Karen, bitching about Home Depot and Spirit Halloween level toy props.  Pretending that her kid didn't just watch The Nightmare Before Christmas at school or over at a friend's house because she'd never let him watch it at home.

[zxcvbob]

I'm learning about memes I'd never heard of :D  (i.e. Karen)

[Ben]

I'm learning about memes I'd never heard of :D  (i.e. Karen)

This old guy had to look it up too. Though it actually fits a Karen I know. 

[makattak]

And yes, Fisty, I've read the article.

No pictures of this horrific display of Wiccan doomscaping.

Without pictures, I'm left to the imagination.

I know what Halloween decor costs.  My GF is enamored with Halloween decorating.  We have skeletons in the front yard right now.  One in particular uses a boulder that is always present in our yard, making it look like the boulder has flattened the poor thing.  Tombstones, spiderwebs, etc.  We've laid off any animatronics or heavy illumination tricks because they're spendy.  I gerry-rigged some bicycle headlamps to work as strobes this year, and I'll probably get a better strobe and a fog machine during the post-Halloween closeouts for next year.  I know just how much the animatronics props cost, because she really wants some.  And I look at them and say to myself, "those motors and actuators are really rough and shoddy-looking."

So getting anything that goes beyond my particular taste, and into the movie-caliber level stuff, will cost $10's of thousands of dollars.  That's the threshold where reality blurs into the imagination, where plastic doesn't look nearly so plasticky, fake blood drips into hidden catch pans and is recirculated by a high quality and noiseless pump, and so on.

This is a Karen, bitching about Home Depot and Spirit Halloween level toy props.  Pretending that her kid didn't just watch The Nightmare Before Christmas at school or over at a friend's house because she'd never let him watch it at home.

I'd be very surprised if my four year old was watching The Nightmare Before Christmas at school.... seeing as she doesn't go to school.

Further, my 4 year old doesn't go to a friend's house. Period. There's no "she was doing worse things at a friends house!" because 4 year olds don't have that freedom.


I suppose I shouldn't be surprised by the animosity towards anyone even requesting consideration of small children in public spaces, but I guess it's more evidence that the disease of self gratification has infected our culture and how our people are no longer fit to be ruled by the constitution.

Additionally, look up the definition of "externality", as that's what we're talking about here and we already have laws that address it. The article and my comments were about finding ways to address this one without resorting to laws.

As fistful noted, that's the inevitable result of attitudes like those seen here.  

[cordex]

So, to summarize:
Expressing an opinion that someone else's Halloween decorations are in poor taste is equivalent to repression through imposing religious standards with government violence and should be opposed by any means necessary.
Expressing an opinion about how other people should parent their kids without knowing the parents, the kids, or for that matter having even so much as demonstrated parental experience much less competence is FREE SPEECH and MUH RITEZ!

That about right?

Well, at least we're consistent.

[brimic]

She should live in a HOA with lots of restrictions. She's also the reason why I won't live in a HOA.

[AZRedhawk44]

She should live in a HOA with lots of restrictions. She's also the reason why I won't live in a HOA.

There you go.  Nicely and succinctly said so that even makattak and fistful can grok.

[charby]

She should live in a HOA with lots of restrictions. She's also the reason why I won't live in a HOA.

I was thinking the same thing. I'm actually surprised that there aren't more religious neighborhood build around their churches, with an HOA that aligns with that particular church. Then they can just point their fingers at each other.