Stop Turning Your Yard into a Hellscape for Halloween

[Ron]

I was thinking the same thing. I'm actually surprised that there aren't more religious neighborhood build around their churches, with an HOA that aligns with that particular church. Then they can just point their fingers at each other.

It wouldn't surprise me if that was illegal under current law, or it it became a thing there would be homosexuals and transexuals suing to be allowed to participate.

What civilization have libertarians ever built?

I can name one they are helping along in its collapse.

The Halloween decorations around here in solid upper middle class suburbia were relatively tame.

Nobody is going out of their way to be douchebags in order to signal their libertarian or pagan superiority.

It's called being neighborly.

[dogmush]

Without context this thread is more of a mirror than a discussion.

I would assume no one here is advocating the local Karen going around and picketing peoples plastic skeletons.  Similarly, I would hope that no one is OK with the next Dahmer decorating their house with the viscera of actual dead cats and saying "Halloween!".

The issue becomes where is the line of "polite" vs "obscene and illegal".  I think Americans have proven thoroughly that you can't make that line at "someone complains" because some ahole will complain about anything.  So in a country of 300 and change million, often living close to each other, with vastly different religions, social mores, cultures, and tolerance for horror, how does a society handle this?    Dunno.  Pretending we should all just be neighborly, is as naive as pretending you can tell your neighbors off and they'll actually leave you alone.  Again, without context to the authors complaints she comes off more as "Those people shouldn't offend me!" than an honest purveyor of community standards.  YMMV.

FWIW, I googled "Realistic Halloween decorations" and the below link was the only thing on the first page that made me personally go "hmm, that's a bit much.", and even then it wouldn't rise to the level of me talking to my neighbor were she my neighbor.  In a moment to almost prove the point, it was "controversial" enough that it got to the local news station, and yet no one seems to have knocked on her door and talked to her about it.

https://www.wowamazing.com/trending/this-realistic-halloween-display-may-be-doomed-find-out-why-the-neighbors-are-freaking-out/

[charby]

It wouldn't surprise me if that was illegal under current law, or it it became a thing there would be homosexuals and transexuals suing to be allowed to participate.

What civilization have libertarians ever built?

I can name one they are helping along in its collapse.

The Halloween decorations around here in solid upper middle class suburbia were relatively tame.

Nobody is going out of their way to be douchebags in order to signal their libertarian or pagan superiority.

It's called being neighborly.

55 and older HOA neighborhoods get away with age discrimination all the time. I don't see how a church couldn't have their own HOA, just got to word it properly, like to no exterior Halloween decorations, etc. Don't use age, sex or ethnicity in the rules.

[cordex]

So really you guys all want this Pullman gal to be arrested by the feds, right?  And freedom of speech to be banned?  Is that what you're saying?

[fifth_column]

So really you guys all want this Pullman gal to be arrested by the feds, right?  And freedom of speech to be banned?  Is that what you're saying?

Did you decorate your yard with strawmen this halloween?  I suspect that those on this thread that have a problem with the author would suggest that she should be  . . . left alone.  Personally, I have no problem with her being offended by gore and gruesomeness.  Nor do I have a problem with her shielding her child's eyes from it.  Some kids are more sensitive than others and need more shielding.  I can't imagine any reason for her to be arrested because of it.

[dogmush]

Did you decorate your yard with strawmen this halloween?  I suspect that those on this thread that have a problem with the author would suggest that she should be  . . . left alone. 

What if she were openly mocked on the internet and called names.  Kind of a way of trying to tell her her behavior was unacceptable to the community without involving government?  Perhaps she would cease the bad behavior without any use of force?

[cordex]

Did you decorate your yard with strawmen this halloween?  I suspect that those on this thread that have a problem with the author would suggest that she should be  . . . left alone.  Personally, I have no problem with her being offended by gore and gruesomeness.  Nor do I have a problem with her shielding her child's eyes from it.  Some kids are more sensitive than others and need more shielding.  I can't imagine any reason for her to be arrested because of it.

But I thought criticizing something as not good automatically means one wants to send men with guns to enforce one's whims ... so it's reasonable to apply that same willful misreading to criticism of this woman's viewpoint, right?

[charby]

So really you guys all want this Pullman gal to be arrested by the feds, right?  And freedom of speech to be banned?  Is that what you're saying?

No, but folks should stop using "for the children" to push their individual agenda.

[brimic]

But I thought criticizing something as not good automatically means one wants to send men with guns to enforce one's whims ... so it's reasonable to apply that same willful misreading to criticism of this woman's viewpoint, right?

That's a really odd assumption.

[Ron]

55 and older HOA neighborhoods get away with age discrimination all the time. I don't see how a church couldn't have their own HOA, just got to word it properly, like to no exterior Halloween decorations, etc. Don't use age, sex or ethnicity in the rules.

You may choose to live among whomever the left says you may. You have a choice between what they allow.

Let freedom ring.

[cordex]

That's a really odd assumption.

The part where people assigned motive not in evidence or the part where I sarcastically did the same thing?

[fifth_column]

But I thought criticizing something as not good automatically means one wants to send men with guns to enforce one's whims ... so it's reasonable to apply that same willful misreading to criticism of this woman's viewpoint, right?

Is this also a sarcastic strawman?  I don't see this being stated anywhere either. 

[AZRedhawk44]

What civilization have libertarians ever built?

'Murica, before the leftists and rightists ruined it.

Those founder guys were predominantly Deists.  Not Christians, per se.  And mostly they said "*expletive deleted*ck off and leave us alone, or else."

[cordex]

Is this also a sarcastic strawman?  I don't see this being stated anywhere either. 

Really?
Jamis simultaneously admitted he knew she wasn't calling for regulation but went right ahead with expressing concern that disapproval of something was going to lead to sharia law or something and calls her a statist.
Dogmush brought up the false dichotomy that the only options are to either send men with guns to enforce our whim or to accept whatever people want to do, while dismissing her statement that she didn't want to use government force because he doesn't believe there is any possible way to interact with people you disagree with other than government force or acceptance.
Brad focused right in on "legal ways to enforce your views on your neighbor" bravely stated he would not advocate restricting people's rights to display halloween decorations.
AZRedhawk44 is AZRedhawk44.

Look, it's entirely possible this lady is secretly a statist thug trying to push for a theocracy in America.  I don't know her and prior to this I don't think I've ever read anything by her.  But what I'm seeing here are a number of people saying "I know she said X but what she really meant was Y and that's why I disagree with her."

[Brad Johnson]

Final two paragraphs of the article, direct copy-&-paste.

A government that allows great freedom absolutely requires citizens who use that freedom responsibly. The more they push boundaries and disregard their fellow citizens, the more uncivilized and undisciplined people enable bigger government. So it is not at all an accident that as our nation has grown more lax in privately policing social mores that our government has also expanded immensely.

I don’t think we are on the verge of a giant social movement to have bureaucrats approving yard decoration schemes, and I don’t want one. But, with positively no apologies to the Philistines, I do think that this lack of courtesy, civility, and restraint in Halloween decorations is emblematic of a destructive and seemingly accelerating cultural Philistinism.

Summary: "I don't want bureaucrats policing yard decorations but here's all the reasons yard decorations should be policed!"

It's an emotional argument, one based in subjective personal views. It's also patently illogical and inherently self-contradictory. She states she doesn't want something after spending a dozen paragraphs outlining why "it" would be a good idea. It's a perfect example of leftist "I Haz Feelz" ideological rationalization (We have to do it FOR THE CHILDREN!). I don't doubt for a moment that she would glom on to the first opportunity to see her ideals enforced on a more formal level.

The older I get the less use - and patience - I have for hand-wringing BS like this. There are considerations in this life far more important than your neighbor's choice of seasonal yard decoration. If "Karen's" life is so trouble-free that this is that's all she has to worry about, maybe she should shut the hell up and appreciate all the real problems she's not having to deal with.

Brad

[charby]

Name-calling is so constructive.

Some snowflake libertarians can't handle it.

Pot/Kettle?

[makattak]

Final two paragraphs of the article, direct copy-&-paste.



Summary: "I don't want bureaucrats policing yard decorations but here's all the reasons yard decorations should be policed!"

It's an emotional argument, one based in subjective personal views. It's also patently illogical and inherently self-contradictory. She states she doesn't want something after spending a dozen paragraphs outlining why "it" would be a good idea. It's a perfect example of leftist "I Haz Feelz" ideological rationalization (We have to do it FOR THE CHILDREN!). I don't doubt for a moment that she would glom on to the first opportunity to see her ideals enforced on a more formal level.

The older I get the less use - and patience - I have for hand-wringing BS like this. There are considerations in this life far more important than your neighbor's choice of seasonal yard decoration. If "Karen's" life is so trouble-free that this is that's all she has to worry about, maybe she should shut the hell up and appreciate all the real problems she's not having to deal with.

Brad

So her article points out that a lack of concern for others in your own community tends to lead to calls for bigger government means: "SEEE!!! SEEE!!!#@@! SHE'S A STATIST WHO WANTS BIG GOVERNMENT!!"!L!L!@J@!L:@K!!!"

I love how despite carefully crafted arguments about how appropriateness ought to at least be measured by movie ratings for your yard* and a call for people to self-police with a warning that lack of responsibility tends to lead to ham-handed government intervention were all completely ignored.

She's just a "Karen" who doesn't want her precious little snowflake ("OH, SHE'S FOUR??? BOOHHOOHOOO cupcake, suck it up. That's life you little wretch.") ever exposed to anything upsetting.



*(the bloody, murdered child on a pike as linked by dogmush ought to be one of those where people say... oh, maybe we ought not to put that out where a 4 year old can see it.)

[brimic]

So does anyone have a good cornbread recipe?

[Brad Johnson]

She refuted something she just spent several pages justifying so, yeah, I put her squarely in the "I Haz Oppressed Feelz" SJW camp.

Brad

[Brad Johnson]

So does anyone have a good cornbread recipe?

Buttermilk cornbread.

1-1/2 c. yellow cornmeal
1/2 c. flour
2 tsp aluminum-free baking powder
1/2 tsp baking soda
1 tsp sugar
1 tsp salt
2 eggs
1-1/2 c. buttermilk
1/4 c. oil (anything clear and relatively tasteless) or bacon drippings (pork fat rules!)

Use an 8x8 baking dish for thick pieces, a large cast iron skillet for thinner pieces. For a casserole or 13x9 baking dish, double the recipe. 450 deg for 20-25 min.

Brad

[brimic]

Buttermilk cornbread.

1-1/2 c. yellow cornmeal
1/2 c. flour
2 tsp aluminum-free baking powder
1/2 tsp baking soda
1 tsp sugar
1 tsp salt
2 eggs
1-1/2 c. buttermilk
1/4 c. oil (anything clear and relatively tasteless) or bacon drippings (pork fat rules!)

Use an 8x8 baking dish for thick pieces, a large cast iron skillet for thinner pieces. For a casserole or 13x9 baking dish, double the recipe. 450 deg for 20-25 min.

Brad

K thanks!

[makattak]

She refuted something she just spent several pages justifying so, yeah, I put her squarely in the "I Haz Oppressed Feelz" SJW camp.

Brad

Refuted?

So, when anyone on this forum warns that certain things will eventually lead to violence, what they are really saying is they plan on taking up arms against the opponents?

[cordex]

Summary: "I don't want bureaucrats policing yard decorations but here's all the reasons yard decorations should be policed!"

I carry concealed.  I think there are a lot of really good reasons to carry concealed.  I advocate carrying concealed.  It irritates me when people pull stupid stunts like open carry rifles into Applebees or struts into a Walmart with an AR right after someone shoots up a Walmart with an AR.  People doing that are doing harm to the gun rights cause.

I absolutely don't want there to be laws against open carry.

I can think of dozens of things that I would caution others to avoid or work to convince others to do for their good, the good of their children, or the good of society - that I would absolutely not support legal intervention for.  Is it really so foreign a concept that someone could believe something to be good or bad without simultaneously believing that the government intervene to force those beliefs on others?

It's an emotional argument, one based in subjective personal views. It's also patently illogical and inherently self-contradictory. She states she doesn't want something after spending a dozen paragraphs outlining why "it" would be a good idea. It's a perfect example of leftist "I Haz Feelz" ideological rationalization (We have to do it FOR THE CHILDREN!). I don't doubt for a moment that she would glom on to the first opportunity to see her ideals enforced on a more formal level.

As far as I could tell she advocated for an idea, not governmental enforcement.  Sure, her argument was emotional, not like the calm, thoughtful rationality that would - for instance - label her a statist.

Brad, I don't think for a moment that you (or any of the other defenders of Halloween Freedom here) believe that everything you dislike (for good reasons, I'm sure!) should be prohibited by the government.  Is it possible that someone else might ... just possibly ... have the same complexity?

The older I get the less use - and patience - I have for hand-wringing BS like this. There are considerations in this life far more important than your neighbor's choice of seasonal yard decoration. If "Karen's" life is so trouble-free that this is that's all she has to worry about, maybe she should shut the hell up and appreciate all the real problems she's not having to deal with.

These are much better points than attacking the statist strawman.

[zxcvbob]

Buttermilk cornbread.

1-1/2 c. yellow cornmeal
1/2 c. flour
2 tsp aluminum-free baking powder
1/2 tsp baking soda
1 tsp sugar
1 tsp salt
2 eggs
1-1/2 c. buttermilk
1/4 c. oil (anything clear and relatively tasteless) or bacon drippings (pork fat rules!)

Use an 8x8 baking dish for thick pieces, a large cast iron skillet for thinner pieces. For a casserole or 13x9 baking dish, double the recipe. 450 deg for 20-25 min.

Brad

Is white cornmeal acceptable?     Nicely done with the amount of sugar; purists will be pissed that it has any sugar, Yankees won't think it's sweet enough.

[Brad Johnson]

Is white cornmeal acceptable?     Nicely done with the amount of sugar; purists will be pissed that it has any sugar, Yankees won't think it's sweet enough.

White cornmeal seems to give it a slightly finer texture. Other than that, no real difference, at least in flavor. A pinch of sugar helps it brown, makes a better crust, and knocks the edge off cornmeal's natural bitterness without making the finished product perceptibly sweet. 

Brad