The Expanse Season 4

[Ben]

Season 4 of the Expanse just dropped on Amazon. I've been complaining about Amazon and Netflix ruining the current seasons of several shows I have up till this season thought were great, by injecting over the top SJW / TDS nonsense.

I have only seen the first episode so far, but it appears this season of The Expanse might have dodged the SJW bullet. Episode one was as good a quality as any episode in the previous seasons.

About the only small nit I have to pick is that it looks like they may be pushing the Mars Republic as some kind of dictatorship this season, versus it being more of an independent Republic you want to root for (like the US after breaking away from Britain) which it seemed to be in prior seasons. But the United Nations on Earth is still kind of a big brother ahole, so it seems to balance out.

[dogmush]

It's been several years since I read the books, but my fuzzy memory is that the Mars Republic had some real issues.  They pretty much went all in on government control to facilitate the terraforming.

There are no real "good guys" in the governments in those books.

[Ben]

It's been several years since I read the books, but my fuzzy memory is that the Mars Republic had some real issues.  They pretty much went all in on government control to facilitate the terraforming.

There are no real "good guys" in the governments in those books.

I've never read the books, so perhaps the series is just heading more in "book direction". I've kinda looked at the Mars Republic as somewhat Heinleinian - Kind of an authoritative government, but with a libertarian bent. What I was catching in this episode was the removal of the libertarian bent and the upping of "authoritarian".

[Declaration Day]

I binge-watched season 4 and finished episode 10 early this morning.  I won't give any specific spoilers.  There are a couple of awfully bleak episodes, and a LOT of people die in this season.  I'll leave it at that other than to say this season is excellent.

My only real complaint about the show as a whole is that you REALLY have to pay attention because there are so many characters to keep track of.

[Ben]

Watched a couple more, and Mars.gov is definitely feeling more Orwellian than Heinleinian to me now. But it still works with the overall plot and all the new worlds beyond the Ring, which gives a "frontier" feel to things, and a place for people to potentially get out from under the gov's thumb.

[dogmush]

So I'll throw this out there:

I only watched season 1 and 2 of the show so far.  But I read 6 of the 8 books.  (wiki tells me there is still one coming) From what I can tell Season 4 is the end of  book 3 and most of book 4.  If that holds true, hang on to your hats because this story is about to get pretty weird.

The books had a pretty big tonal shift from hard sci-fi with a lot of attention paid to the sci to an exploration of what is human nature and politics right about the end of this book.

I mention it because that kind of shift in the story of a complicated set of novels is a lot of what killed Game of Thrones.

[Ben]

Just finished the season. Not a single SJW platitude, so obviously Amazon DOES have some writers that aren't snowflakes. They should have them work on some of their other shows.

Anyway, a well done season, and season 5 looks to be interesting.

[RoadKingLarry]

I'm planning on binging The Expanse while I'm laid up after shoulder surgery next month. I watched the first few episodes of season 1 a year or so ago but my sit in front of.the TV and vegitate time is very limited.

[BryanP]

I haven’t watched the show at all yet. Just started reading the first book.  So far it’s pretty good.

[dogmush]

Finished season 4 last night.  Still pretty solid, although I did notice some spots where they let the "science" part of Sci-Fi slip.  Hopefully they don't make a habit of that, as IMNSHO that's one of the things that makes this show stand out.

As far as Mars.gov, They were always pretty communal "we all work for the betterment of Mars", I think we just spent more time on Mars this season, so it is more obvious.  Also the upheaval caused by having two large, generational public works projects effectively rendered moot in a small timeframe was depicted pretty well, I think.

[slugcatcher]

Spoilers ahead.

Season 4 seems weak compared to any of the other 3.  I love the show, but the whole mindset of immediately tearing down what warships you have left after surviving an inner-system war and an alien threat capable of wiping out all life makes no sense to me.  Neither does wanting to immediately colonize 1300 unknown systems without investigating them first.  Deadly slugs and eye-eating bacteria?  I think they got off easy.  And what doctor/scientist doesn't ask the only person immune to the bacteria if he is currently taking any medications first?  That was pretty weak (cough-star trek-cough) crap there.    I just hate for things to get cheesy from here on out.  The whole badguy/son scene was as terrible as it was predictable.  Seasons 1-3 were excellent.  I guess I shouldn't complain since season 4 exists.

[MechAg94]

Spoilers ahead.

Season 4 seems weak compared to any of the other 3.  I love the show, but the whole mindset of immediately tearing down what warships you have left after surviving an inner-system war and an alien threat capable of wiping out all life makes no sense to me.  Neither does wanting to immediately colonize 1300 unknown systems without investigating them first.  Deadly slugs and eye-eating bacteria?  I think they got off easy.  And what doctor/scientist doesn't ask the only person immune to the bacteria if he is currently taking any medications first?  That was pretty weak (cough-star trek-cough) crap there.    I just hate for things to get cheesy from here on out.  The whole badguy/son scene was as terrible as it was predictable.  Seasons 1-3 were excellent.  I guess I shouldn't complain since season 4 exists.

Spoilers yeah. 

I have been avoiding this thread since I hadn't watched season 4 yet.  I finally watched it last weekend.  I may have one or two complaints, but it kept me interested through the whole thing.

I thought the old pirate (I am bad with names) who was holding a gun on Inaros was the type to go ahead and shoot rather than give up.  Why would he give up when he knows they are going to kill him anyway?  Seems out of character.  Also, how come no one has armor but the big militaries? 

Other than that, I think the UN looked like typical BigGov.  Can't have colonization without BigGov oversight and control.  Can't just let people make their own choices and live or die on their own.  Plus, why would that corporation be given a charter to study/mine that planet when no colonization had been approved?  I guess it sort of mirrors they history of stuff like the East India Company (?) under the British Empire.  Not sure I have the name right.

[MechAg94]

Spoilers ahead.

Season 4 seems weak compared to any of the other 3.  I love the show, but the whole mindset of immediately tearing down what warships you have left after surviving an inner-system war and an alien threat capable of wiping out all life makes no sense to me.  Neither does wanting to immediately colonize 1300 unknown systems without investigating them first.  Deadly slugs and eye-eating bacteria?  I think they got off easy.  And what doctor/scientist doesn't ask the only person immune to the bacteria if he is currently taking any medications first?  That was pretty weak (cough-star trek-cough) crap there.    I just hate for things to get cheesy from here on out.  The whole badguy/son scene was as terrible as it was predictable.  Seasons 1-3 were excellent.  I guess I shouldn't complain since season 4 exists.

Considering the conditions many people lived in on Earth and elsewhere, I don't see the downside of going off to unknown planets. 

[MechAg94]

So I'll throw this out there:

I only watched season 1 and 2 of the show so far.  But I read 6 of the 8 books.  (wiki tells me there is still one coming) From what I can tell Season 4 is the end of  book 3 and most of book 4.  If that holds true, hang on to your hats because this story is about to get pretty weird.

The books had a pretty big tonal shift from hard sci-fi with a lot of attention paid to the sci to an exploration of what is human nature and politics right about the end of this book.

I mention it because that kind of shift in the story of a complicated set of novels is a lot of what killed Game of Thrones.

I read the books at least through what might be Season 5.  I got sort of lost in the next book and haven't picked it back up.  I expect I will finish that book and the one after that I already have at some point.

[slugcatcher]

Considering the conditions many people lived in on Earth and elsewhere, I don't see the downside of going off to unknown planets. 

I disagree.  The belters that colonized the first world were shipping raw material back to the Sol system crewed by people who had been on planet and had at the very least been exposed to bacteria that would eat your eyes out.  Bringing back that or something worse sounds like a bad idea because you don't have a job.  They were in no way prepared for colonization any more than the corporate survey crew was to do their job.  With 1300 systems found you would think building the sheer number of unmanned probes needed would boost the hell out of the combined economies of the Sol system alone.

[MechAg94]

I disagree.  The belters that colonized the first world were shipping raw material back to the Sol system crewed by people who had been on planet and had at the very least been exposed to bacteria that would eat your eyes out.  Bringing back that or something worse sounds like a bad idea because you don't have a job.  They were in no way prepared for colonization any more than the corporate survey crew was to do their job.  With 1300 systems found you would think building the sheer number of unmanned probes needed would boost the hell out of the combined economies of the Sol system alone.

I realize people wouldn't be prepared.  I realize people would die as a result of that.  Waiting until they understood things better probably wouldn't change that a whole lot.  They wouldn't catch or detect everything.  I bet they would still have thousands of volunteers if not millions.  I think they would be better off just letting anyone through who wanted to go and just asking for a minimum of supplies.  Maintain some sort of quarantine check at the ring station for anyone coming back.  There were probably new asteroid belts available to be mined as well.

[MechAg94]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZfNJvwNZZ2k
Adam Savage Talks with The Expanse's Wes Chatham!  (Amos)

Right off the bat they say they are shooting season 5.

[MechAg94]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eNr0tg4hZvw

The Best of Amos

[Ben]

I thought the old pirate (I am bad with names) who was holding a gun on Inaros was the type to go ahead and shoot rather than give up.  Why would he give up when he knows they are going to kill him anyway?  Seems out of character.  Also, how come no one has armor but the big militaries?  

What I was getting is that the character was tired of his "violence is the answer" life, and doing the "older and wiser" thing of looking for alternative solutions that didn't rely on violence. That already seemed to be popping up last season. Your point is well-taken though - while he previously spared Inaros, he shouldn't have been looking for the same in return, giben that character's character flaws.

Then again, the writers might have just wanted to set up a poignant spacing. :)

[dogmush]

What I was getting is that the character was tired of his "violence is the answer" life, and doing the "older and wiser" thing of looking for alternative solutions that didn't rely on violence. That already seemed to be popping up last season. Your point is well-taken though - while he previously spared Inaros, he shouldn't have been looking for the same in return, giben that character's character flaws.

Then again, the writers might have just wanted to set up a poignant spacing. :)

Spoiler:

They needed to give Inaros a time to bad guy monologue, because the intel he transmitted before he died will allow folks to divert some of those asteroids.  IIRC in the books it was made more clear that Inaros threw enough rocks at earth to glass it.  He is trying to kill everyone on earth.  Certainly the 8 or so tracks he shows at the end will do the job, it's just not explicitly said.  The warning allows the UN to destroy most of the incoming rocks, and instead of ending everyone, it's just a really bad day.  Had Ashcroft gone down in a hail of gunfire he wouldn't have been able to warn anyone. My fuzzy recollection is that the actual Ashcroft character isn't in the books, but they do get some warning (I forget how) and that lets the heroes' stop some of the rocks.  It also cements that Inaros isn't just another belter tango (some of which have become sympathetic) but a Bad Guy (tm)


/Spoiler

[Ben]

Spoiler:




/Spoiler

Good point. I completely forgot the "intel" scene in your spoiler.

[MechAg94]

Good point. I completely forgot the "intel" scene in your spoiler.

Maybe i need to rewatch the final episode.

[MechAg94]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=caLji74IIp4
Season 5 Trailer. 


I hope they don't screw it up, but I would like to see Amos' trip down to Earth.  I think that is the last book I finished of the series and that was the most memorable part. 

[Ben]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=caLji74IIp4
Season 5 Trailer. 


I hope they don't screw it up,

Man, me too. As I mentioned above, I was SO glad they didn't inject the SJW crap into season 4 like they did with most all their other shows. At this point, I'm only getting my hopes up to 50/50.

It has been such a good show, I am going to be seriously pissed if they screw with this one too.

[MechAg94]

Has anyone read the most recent books of the series?  I thought I heard someone some it had pulled in some SJW themes.