Church shooting near Dallas

[zxcvbob]

https://www.dallasnews.com/news/crime/2019/12/29/2-dead-1-in-critical-condition-after-reported-shooting-at-church-in-white-settlement/

Was stopped quickly when members of the congregation returned fire.  It will be interesting to see what the news media does with this story.  (I suspect they will quickly bury it)

[Ben]

https://www.dallasnews.com/news/crime/2019/12/29/2-dead-1-in-critical-condition-after-reported-shooting-at-church-in-white-settlement/

Was stopped quickly when members of the congregation returned fire.  It will be interesting to see what the news media does with this story.  (I suspect they will quickly bury it)

The churchmember was a former FBI agent, so the MSM will cover it. If he were a plumber, then, no.

[lee n. field]

https://www.dallasnews.com/news/crime/2019/12/29/2-dead-1-in-critical-condition-after-reported-shooting-at-church-in-white-settlement/

Was stopped quickly when members of the congregation returned fire.  It will be interesting to see what the news media does with this story.  (I suspect they will quickly bury it)

Saw the clip.  Bang, over in seconds, third shot fired dropped the perp.

[sumpnz]

From the video it appeared the perp asked one security guy a question (possibly as a misdirection) then shot another security guy as he was drawing a weapon, then shot the guy he asked the question of.  Then the 3rd security guy shot the perp.

[MechAg94]

1.  It looked like the one security guard started to draw his pistol and was fumbling the draw.  He could have been just been putting his hand on his gun, but I thought he was attempting to draw.  His draw wasn't fast enough.  Practicing my draw is something I haven't done a great deal.  That is a good reminder to do some draw and dry fire practice. 

2.  Right after the gun man was shot, it looked like several other churchgoers had guns drawn.  That was nice to see.  He would have had more people shooting back if the 3rd security guard hadn't stopped him.

3.  Companies like AR500armor.com sell different body armor packages pretty cheap (less than the price of a gun at least).  If you work security in some capacity, that might help.  They also have one that is designed to wear concealed.  I know other companies make it, but I am not real familiar with that industry.

I think this is it.  They put stuff on sale quite often.  Their 1/2" steel target plates are good and also go on sale quite often.
https://www.ar500armor.com/plate-carriers/plate-carrier-packages-w-armor/ar-concealment-with-soft-armor.html

[HeroHog]

NO POLITICS: Initial Analysis of Murders in White Settlement TX Church

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s5NzuGSkL2E

[Ben]

2.  Right after the gun man was shot, it looked like several other churchgoers had guns drawn.  That was nice to see.  He would have had more people shooting back if the 3rd security guard hadn't stopped him.

My one issue with that is those last two guys in the video. Man are they waving their muzzles around. I don't want to second guess people who were there and went through the ordeal, but those both looked like collateral damage waiting to happen had the bad guy not already been taken down.

Good point on practicing the draw. I do that on every range trip, but confess I always do "open carry" draws, or drawing from under an unzipped jacket. I really need to practice more with cover garments like shirts that need to be lifted.

[Fly320s]

Dry fire.  15 minutes of quality practice time is better than a day at the range goofing off.

[French G.]

Can't Monday morning quarterback, we probably all get shot in that situation. The guy closest, I think we all need to somehow get the mindset of closing the distance and controlling the weapon. Hard to do, natural reaction is to get away. Guy who took the shot, incredible, one shot stop under extreme stress. First guy shot had a chance, really poor draw. Again, standing up probably my natural reaction, probably better to just fall down until you are sure your draw is sorted out.

But like so many other church shootings that got stopped quickly, no national news coverage.

[sumpnz]

From what I saw, if the first guy that was hit had been Quick Draw McGraw he might have been able to get a shot off.  But almost certainly he would have still been shot in the process.  Sounds like the second guy might have got a round off about the same time as he was hit.  The John Correia analysis said first guy had 3.1 seconds from first view of the perps gun to getting hit.  Second guy had about 1 second more.  Ex-Hoover took 5.3 seconds to take his shot, but pulled off a head shot on moving target with a pistol from 12-15 yards under extreme stress.  So I have zero criticism of his actions.

[zxcvbob]

They were all slow on the draw (that's not a criticism it's an observation, they were quicker than me.)  The guy who stopped it was far enough away to get away with that, and then made an incredible shot -- head shot at 50 feet under extreme stress, and in just one shot.  I think he's practiced a bit.

I need to start practicing, and start carrying in church again even tho' my wife hates it.

[Hawkmoon]

From what I saw, if the first guy that was hit had been Quick Draw McGraw he might have been able to get a shot off.  But almost certainly he would have still been shot in the process.  Sounds like the second guy might have got a round off about the same time as he was hit.  The John Correia analysis said first guy had 3.1 seconds from first view of the perps gun to getting hit.  Second guy had about 1 second more.  Ex-Hoover took 5.3 seconds to take his shot, but pulled off a head shot on moving target with a pistol from 12-15 yards under extreme stress.  So I have zero criticism of his actions.

With what? The second victim dudn't have a gun, he was holding a collection plate.

[freakazoid]

Something interested that I had seen pointed out elsewhere. Christ of Church located in Tarrant County, Christchurch NZ shooter named Tarrant.

[brimic]

Pretty good depiction of all that is right and wrong with CCW tactics in a few seconds of video.
Man #1 fumblefucks with a pistol carried SOB while he is already far behind in the OODA loop. He never trained for it, and it shows by his carry style and his inablility to clear his pistol.
Man #2 makes a clean, fast draw, and a headshot on a moving target from a decent distance.

BTW, look up the guy who made the kill shot- they tout him as retired FBI, but he owns and runs his own firearms training facility, the latter is a lot more important than the former fact.

[charby]

https://www.dallasnews.com/news/crime/2019/12/29/2-dead-1-in-critical-condition-after-reported-shooting-at-church-in-white-settlement/

Was stopped quickly when members of the congregation returned fire.  It will be interesting to see what the news media does with this story.  (I suspect they will quickly bury it)

Story being reported on Good Morning America this AM

[MillCreek]

So I have seen or heard this story on the national network news (broadcast and Net), the local and national mainstream print media and NPR.  Not exactly burying the lede.

[zxcvbob]

So I have seen or heard this story on the national network news (broadcast and Net), the local and national mainstream print media and NPR.  Not exactly burying the lede.

Yes, I'm surprised by that.  Maybe because the hero was retired FBI?

[Ben]

Yes, I'm surprised by that.  Maybe because the hero was retired FBI?

Pretty much every story I've read mentioned, "Stopped by a retired/former FBI Agent".

 Brimic makes a good point.

[MechAg94]

From what I saw, if the first guy that was hit had been Quick Draw McGraw he might have been able to get a shot off.  But almost certainly he would have still been shot in the process.  Sounds like the second guy might have got a round off about the same time as he was hit.  The John Correia analysis said first guy had 3.1 seconds from first view of the perps gun to getting hit.  Second guy had about 1 second more.  Ex-Hoover took 5.3 seconds to take his shot, but pulled off a head shot on moving target with a pistol from 12-15 yards under extreme stress.  So I have zero criticism of his actions.

The more I thought about it, the more I realized it all happened really fast.  I really wouldn't have done any better.  It also occured to me that the one guy may not have intended to draw, but just put his hand on his gun.  Either way, he wasn't able to draw and shoot fast enough before he got shot.  However, it happened really fast so I can't fault him.  It is more just a lesson for the rest of us to practice more, work on threat identification, and maybe look at body armor options.

I did a practical pistol shoot and had someone take video with my phone of one of the sets.  I know I looked slow when I watched later.  Something I will also be thinking about.

[Ben]

I did a practical pistol shoot and had someone take video with my phone of one of the sets.  I know I looked slow when I watched later.  Something I will also be thinking about.

The defensive pistol classes I have taken filmed us through all the training and gave us DVDs afterwards. Video really is enlightening and humbling.

[HankB]

Had this happened in California, Chicago, New York, or any of a number of other liberal cesspools, the story would be that "several other church members have been taken into custody while police are investigating why they were carrying guns - charges may be pending."

[sumpnz]

Ex sheriff, not Hoover.  Running for county commissioner.

https://townhall.com/tipsheet/juliorosas/2019/12/30/hero-security-guard-speaks-out-on-texas-church-shooting-n2558681

[Hawkmoon]

It also occured to me that the one guy may not have intended to draw, but just put his hand on his gun.  Either way, he wasn't able to draw and shoot fast enough before he got shot.

He not only intended to draw, he drew. But he fumbled the draw, and then drew far too slowly. Watch the video multiple times (slow it down if you can find a version on Youtube), and you'll see that at the moment he's shot he has drawn his pistol and started to bring it around, but it's just barely in front of him and pointed down -- not even up to the "low ready" position.

Multiple sources are still reporting that the second victim had fired a shot before he was killed. I think this is incorrect. Throughout the incident he was hold what appeared to me to be a collection (or communion) plate. I didn't see him even reach for a gun, let along get off a shot.

[WLJ]

Hereeeee's Shannon

   .@KenPaxtonTX shouldn’t be shocked by the church shooting in White Settlement. As Texas Attorney General, he specifically made sure that guns are allowed inside churches in the state: https://t.co/wBlzuBpGZt #txlege https://t.co/lLGfMgYD2S

    — Shannon Watts (@shannonrwatts) December 29, 2019

If the church only had magic door stckers this would have never have happened in other words.

AKSHUALLY yes … Shannon Watts’ White Settlement shooting tweet has people wondering if she’s REALLY that dumb
https://twitchy.com/samj-3930/2019/12/30/akshually-yes-shannon-watts-white-settlement-shooting-tweet-has-people-wondering-if-shes-really-that-dumb/

Meanwhile in gun free Chicago

Year to Date
Shot & Killed: 457
Shot & Wounded: 2284
Total Shot: 2742
Total Homicides: 510

https://heyjackass.com/

[Ben]

Ex sheriff, not Hoover.  Running for county commissioner.

https://townhall.com/tipsheet/juliorosas/2019/12/30/hero-security-guard-speaks-out-on-texas-church-shooting-n2558681

Even so, the MSM, even Fox News, is still pushing the "armed LEO" theme vs "armed citizen". From Fox:

Armed lawman credited with taking down Texas church gunman ‘seconds’ after he opened fire