Author Topic: Airline Seatback Wars  (Read 3437 times)

Ben

  • Administrator
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 46,006
  • I'm an Extremist!
Airline Seatback Wars
« on: February 16, 2020, 08:00:56 AM »
I'm guessing there is more to this story regarding the specific two individuals involved, but it brings up an interesting topic: If neither of them were jerks, who was in the right?

To me, it's simple: At 6'3", I HATE HATE HATE when someone reclines their seat in coach, especially during meal service. However, while I get irritated with them, I can't blame them, because hey, they're reclining seats. I think this issue has grown because spacing has gotten smaller and smaller, and my opinion at this point is that airlines either need to lock the seats coach seats in the upright position, or else reduce the recline to no more than like an inch. This is never an issue (for me) in first class, where the person in front of me can keep their seat fully reclined and it doesn't bother me at all.

Also, while the flight attendant shouldn't be fired, I'm not sure that apologizing to the seat puncher was the smart move.

https://www.foxnews.com/travel/american-airlines-passenger-press-charges-attendant-fired
"I'm a foolish old man that has been drawn into a wild goose chase by a harpy in trousers and a nincompoop."

dogmush

  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 13,866
Re: Airline Seatback Wars
« Reply #1 on: February 16, 2020, 08:26:46 AM »
While it's certainly rude and annoying and should be stopped by the airline reps on the airplane, I have a hard time agreeing that punching the back of an airline seat rises to the level of criminal assault.

That one thing leads me to really question the veracity Ms. William's tale of the rest of the events.

*ETA: I also agree that if the seat pitch is going to be reduced to the point it is on current US Flag airlines, seat recline mechanisms should be modified.  But that is probably not a trivial undertaking.  I assume that airline seats carry some sort of FAA certification for flight and crash safety, and modifying them would require testing and approval of a new design, plus the install cost of whatever modification multiplied by a large number of seats in the fleet.  Much cheaper to just reconfigure the cabin to the next slot on the seat track.

Ben

  • Administrator
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 46,006
  • I'm an Extremist!
Re: Airline Seatback Wars
« Reply #2 on: February 16, 2020, 08:46:14 AM »
Much cheaper to just reconfigure the cabin to the next slot on the seat track.

I agree with that, and it of course has the better comfort benefits. It will just cost people more to fly with fewer seats, and I can kinda sympathize with the airlines in that regard. People want first class seating to Hawaii for $200RT. Personally, I'll pay a little more for a few more inches of space. Actually a lot more, as I've pretty much stopped flying coach unless there's no other choice - that's how much avoiding sardine can seating is worth to me.
"I'm a foolish old man that has been drawn into a wild goose chase by a harpy in trousers and a nincompoop."

MechAg94

  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 33,738
Re: Airline Seatback Wars
« Reply #3 on: February 16, 2020, 09:33:15 AM »
It has been a while since I flew, but on that video clip, it didn't look like she had the seat reclined that much.  He has the tray open so there is enough room for that.  He kind of looks like he is throwing a tantrum.  Of course, there is probably more to the story.  It is odd that the the stewardess would threaten her.

He was already against the back wall where the seats don't reline much.  Makes me wonder if he was already uncomfortable with a bad attitude from the start.
“It is much more important to kill bad bills than to pass good ones.”  ― Calvin Coolidge

Unisaw

  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 1,416
Re: Airline Seatback Wars
« Reply #4 on: February 16, 2020, 01:11:09 PM »
I think both of them acted like jerks.  I fly a lot but rarely recline my seat because the small amount of recline doesn’t provide much increase in comfort but is annoying for the person behind.  It must be a little-known law of physics — 3 inches of recline for the person in front uses up a foot of room for the person in back.
Well, if you have the sudden urge to lick your balls you'll know you got the veterinary version... K Frame

BobR

  • Just a pup compared to a few old dogs here!
  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 7,276
Re: Airline Seatback Wars
« Reply #5 on: February 16, 2020, 01:22:24 PM »
He was being an ass, I am fairly confident saying the only reason he did that was because it was a woman in the seat in front of him. Had it been a male I really doubt it would have happened. Both of them should not be allowed to fly for 5 years.

bob

Ben

  • Administrator
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 46,006
  • I'm an Extremist!
Re: Airline Seatback Wars
« Reply #6 on: February 16, 2020, 01:23:58 PM »
I think both of them acted like jerks.  I fly a lot but rarely recline my seat because the small amount of recline doesn’t provide much increase in comfort but is annoying for the person behind.  It must be a little-known law of physics — 3 inches of recline for the person in front uses up a foot of room for the person in back.

Rereading my OP, I may not have been clear in that  I think it's likely they were both jerks, but I was gathering opinions on if they hadn't been jerks, or if it was two random other people, do people have the right to recline all the way in coach regardless of how the person behind them feels?

Again, I absolutely hate it when it happens to me, and  I rarely do it and not to the full extent of the seat, but if someone paid for reclining seats, I feel I have to suck it up. Which is why I think they should be eliminated in coach, or as Dogmush said, there needs to be better spaced seating with fewer seats.

I also agree regarding your physics statement - it never feels like I get any recline, but when the person in front of me does it, I think they must have a barcolounger seat or something.  :laugh:
"I'm a foolish old man that has been drawn into a wild goose chase by a harpy in trousers and a nincompoop."

Fly320s

  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 14,415
  • Formerly, Arthur, King of the Britons
Re: Airline Seatback Wars
« Reply #7 on: February 16, 2020, 01:28:11 PM »
Reclining seat lady was in the right.  The guy was a jerk.

I don't recline my seat because it doesn't make a difference to me and the guy behind me doesn't have much room to start with.

By regulation, exit row seats don't recline, so sit behind those if you want to avoid the Recline War.  Or sit in the exit row for extra leg room.

Dogmush, we can easily disable the seat recline.  Takes 30 seconds for each seat.
Islamic sex dolls.  Do they blow themselves up?

Fly320s

  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 14,415
  • Formerly, Arthur, King of the Britons
Re: Airline Seatback Wars
« Reply #8 on: February 16, 2020, 01:30:11 PM »
I estimate that 90% of leisure travelers buy their tickets based on price alone.  Whatever is cheapest, they take it.

Also, I estimate 90% of business travelers don't get a choice, so they buy their tickets based on perks/miles.
Islamic sex dolls.  Do they blow themselves up?

bedlamite

  • Hold my beer and watch this!
  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 9,790
  • Ack! PLBTTPHBT!
Re: Airline Seatback Wars
« Reply #9 on: February 16, 2020, 01:39:24 PM »
When aholes collide ...
A plan is just a list of things that doesn't happen.
Is defenestration possible through the overton window?

Hawkmoon

  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 27,261
Re: Airline Seatback Wars
« Reply #10 on: February 16, 2020, 04:01:37 PM »
I agree with that, and it of course has the better comfort benefits. It will just cost people more to fly with fewer seats, and I can kinda sympathize with the airlines in that regard. People want first class seating to Hawaii for $200RT.

I disagree. I don't think anyone expects first class seating, or anything approaching that, for coach prices. But the airlines have now reduced seat pitch to the point where even normal-height males (and taller females) are cramped and crowded. In fact, the seating has gotten so tight that there are many calls for the FAA to study evacuation times. Would it cost the airlines money to increase seat pitch an inch or so? Yes, it would. So the price goes up enough to cover it. If the FAA mandated this, all airlines would have to do it so the playing field would remain even.

Let's look at a Delta 737-800. According to Delta's web site, they are configured with 16 first class seats that have a width of 20.5" and a pitch of 36" to 38". (Arranged 2 - 2.

https://www.delta.com/us/en/aircraft/boeing/737-800

They have what they call "Delta Comfort" seating, which is a separate section of the cabin that appears to be less than Business class but better than coach; basically what coach used to be several years ago. 36 seats, arranged in six rows 3 - 3, with a seat width of 17.2" and a pitch of 34".

And then they have Main Cabin (coach). 108 seats, eighteen rows 3 - 3, with a seat width of 17.2" and a pitch of 31" to 32". Main cabin includes the two wing exit rows, which are oversized, Going back from there, there are fifteen rows that have the standard pitch. I don't know why they list the coach pitch as 31"-32", but lets' use 31.5" for figgerin'. Fifteen rows at 31.5" is 472.5 inches. Now remove one row, which would sacrifice six seats. The resulting seat pitch would be 33.75" -- which is basically the same as the "Delta Comfort" seat pitch of 34".

What would it cost them? Probably impossible for anyone outside of Delta to calculate, because of the myriad of ticket prices based on the distance flown the cost of fees and fuel at the two airports involved, how far in advance the seat is booked, the day of the week, the season of the year, the phase of the moon, and who knows what else. Pick a number ... $300. 108 seats at $300 is $32,400. Take away six seats and we need to charge $317.65 per seat to break even.

BUT ... six fewer passengers means less weight in people, and less weight in baggage. I don't know what it actually costs in fuel to carry one "average" passenger with his/her "average" luggage, but it costs something. So that offsets to some extent the increased cost of eliminating one row to increase seat pitch.

I just don't think limiting or eliminating the recline feature from seats in the answer. In recent years, airline seats have not only been tightened up in pitch, they've also been made thinner and less comfortable. A flight of more than an hour in a non-reclining coach seat would be absolute torture. The answer is to increase the seat pitch.

It's pretty sad that traveling on a Greyhound bus today is more comfortable than traveling in Coach on any of Boeing's or Airbus' newest aircraft.
« Last Edit: February 16, 2020, 08:20:47 PM by Hawkmoon »
- - - - - - - - - - - - -
100% Politically Incorrect by Design

Hawkmoon

  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 27,261
Re: Airline Seatback Wars
« Reply #11 on: February 16, 2020, 04:16:21 PM »
Reclining seat lady was in the right.  The guy was a jerk.


Correct. The woman paid for a seat that reclines, she had a right to use the recliner feature without being harassed by the guy behind her. If he wanted or needed more legroom, he could and should have paid more for a seat with extra legroom. Almost all airlines offer them. Personally, I think they grossly overcharge for giving you a seat with what was normal legroom until a few years ago, but that's a separate argument. He got what he paid for -- suck it up, buttercup.
- - - - - - - - - - - - -
100% Politically Incorrect by Design

Fly320s

  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 14,415
  • Formerly, Arthur, King of the Britons
Re: Airline Seatback Wars
« Reply #12 on: February 16, 2020, 06:53:43 PM »
I disagree. I don't think anyone expects first class seating, or anything approaching that, for coach prices. But the airlines have now reduced seat pitch to the point where even normal-height males (and taller females) are cramped and crowded. In fact, the seating has gotten so tight that there are many calls to the FAA to study evacuation times. Would it cost the airlines money to increase seat pitch an inch or so? Yes, it would. So the price goes up enough to cover it. If the FAA mandated this, all airlines would have to do it so the playing field would remain even.

Let's look at a Delta 737-800. According to Delta's web site, they are configured with 16 first class seats that have a width of 20.5" and a pitch of 36" to 38". (Arranged 2 - 2.

https://www.delta.com/us/en/aircraft/boeing/737-800

They have what they call "Delta Comfort" seating, which is a separate section of the cabin that appears to be less than Business class but better than coach; basically what coach used to be several years ago. 36 seats, arranged in six rows 3 - 3, with a seat width of 17.2" and a pitch of 34".

And then they have Main Cabin (coach). 108 seats, eighteen rows 3 - 3, with a seat width of 17.2" and a pitch of 31" to 32". Main cabin includes the two wing exit rows, which are oversized, Going back from there, there are fifteen rows that have the standard pitch. I don't know why they list the coach pitch as 31"-32", but lets' use 31.5" for figgerin'. Fifteen rows at 31.5" is 472.5 inches. Now remove one row, which would sacrifice six seats. The resulting seat pitch would be 33.75" -- which is basically the same as the "Delta Comfort" seat pitch of 34".

What would it cost them? Probably impossible for anyone outside of Delta to calculate, because of the myriad of ticket prices based on the distance flown the cost of fees and fuel at the two airports involved, how far in advance the seat is booked, the day of the week, the season of the year, the phase of the moon, and who knows what else. Pick a number ... $300. 108 seats at $300 is $32,400. Take away six seats and we need to charge $317.65 per seat to break even.

BUT ... six fewer passengers means less weight in people, and less weight in baggage. I don't know what it actually costs in fuel to carry one "average" passenger with his/her "average" luggage, but it costs something. So that comes offsets to some extent the increased cost of eliminating one row to increase seat pitch.

I just don't think limiting or eliminating the recline feature from seats in the answer. In recent years, airline seats have not only been tightened up in pitch, they've also been made thinner and less comfortable. A flight of more than an hour in a non-reclining coach seat would be absolute torture. The answer is to increase the seat pitch.

It's pretty sad that traveling on a Greyhound bus today is more comfortable than traveling in Coach on any of Boeing's or Airbus' newest aircraft.

You are absolutely correct, and it will never happen without government mandates. 
Islamic sex dolls.  Do they blow themselves up?

Angel Eyes

  • Lying dog-faced pony soldier
  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 12,309
  • You're not diggin'
Re: Airline Seatback Wars
« Reply #13 on: February 17, 2020, 12:51:25 PM »
"End of quote.  Repeat the line."
  - Joe 'Ron Burgundy' Biden

Brad Johnson

  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 18,071
  • Witty, charming, handsome, and completely insane.
Re: Airline Seatback Wars
« Reply #14 on: February 17, 2020, 04:01:29 PM »
Delta Airlines CEO weighs in. Says "Ask if it's okay first."

https://www.foxnews.com/travel/delta-ceo-ed-bastian-seat-recline-etiquette

Here's a novel idea, Mr. CEO... configure the damn seats in both size and location so normal people can fly in relative comfort whether the fracking seatback is reclined or not.

Brad
It's all about the pancakes, people.
"And he thought cops wouldn't chase... a STOLEN DONUT TRUCK???? That would be like Willie Nelson ignoring a pickup full of weed."
-HankB

brimic

  • friends
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 14,270
Re: Airline Seatback Wars
« Reply #15 on: February 17, 2020, 04:01:48 PM »
Looks like that guy was suffering from some sort of soy induced estrogen rage. Pushing on the back of the seat was probably the least passive-aggressive thing he's done in years.

I'm 6'4, with really long femurs... for the little flying I do, having the seat in front of me recline isn't something I can get upset over.
"now you see that evil will always triumph, because good is dumb" -Dark Helmet

"AK47's belong in the hands of soldiers mexican drug cartels"-
Barack Obama

Fly320s

  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 14,415
  • Formerly, Arthur, King of the Britons
Re: Airline Seatback Wars
« Reply #16 on: February 17, 2020, 04:22:05 PM »
Delta Airlines CEO weighs in. Says "Ask if it's okay first."

https://www.foxnews.com/travel/delta-ceo-ed-bastian-seat-recline-etiquette

Here's a novel idea, Mr. CEO... configure the damn seats in both size and location so normal people can fly in relative comfort whether the fracking seatback is reclined or not.

Brad

Here's a novel idea, Mr. Johnson... don't fly in the cheap seats if seat pitch is that important to you.  Do your homework (try seatguru.com) before you buy tickets.
Islamic sex dolls.  Do they blow themselves up?

Brad Johnson

  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 18,071
  • Witty, charming, handsome, and completely insane.
Re: Airline Seatback Wars
« Reply #17 on: February 17, 2020, 04:42:43 PM »
Here's a novel idea, Mr. Johnson... don't fly in the cheap seats if seat pitch is that important to you.  Do your homework (try seatguru.com) before you buy tickets.

I know airlines are a business and they're trying to fit as many people as possible, but charging people a significant amount of money and then expecting them to somehow magically fit into seats 20% too small for the average traveler is patently ignorant. At some point customer service (in this case, comfort) must play a role. When my wife, who is 5'9" and very slightly built, has to scrunch up in order to fit into the seat and her knees are physically touching the seat in front of her, the seats are too damn small and the spacing too damn tight. I know my shoulders are too wide to fit in any airline seat, much less comfortably. Flying aisle seats and having to lean over so the guy next to me has a modicum of room is just the way it is. But if I have to "do my homework" in order to find a seat that fits her, then seatguru.com, Mr. Delta CEO, and airlines in general can bite me.

Brad
It's all about the pancakes, people.
"And he thought cops wouldn't chase... a STOLEN DONUT TRUCK???? That would be like Willie Nelson ignoring a pickup full of weed."
-HankB

MechAg94

  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 33,738
Re: Airline Seatback Wars
« Reply #18 on: February 17, 2020, 06:06:12 PM »
Here's a novel idea, Mr. Johnson... don't fly in the cheap seats if seat pitch is that important to you.  Do your homework (try seatguru.com) before you buy tickets.
Does that airline do assigned seating? 
“It is much more important to kill bad bills than to pass good ones.”  ― Calvin Coolidge

Fly320s

  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 14,415
  • Formerly, Arthur, King of the Britons
Re: Airline Seatback Wars
« Reply #19 on: February 17, 2020, 06:49:10 PM »
Does that airline do assigned seating? 

I think Southwest is the only airline that doesn't. 
Islamic sex dolls.  Do they blow themselves up?

dogmush

  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 13,866
Re: Airline Seatback Wars
« Reply #20 on: February 18, 2020, 12:44:42 AM »
I know airlines are a business and they're trying to fit as many people as possible, but charging people a significant amount of money and then expecting them to somehow magically fit into seats 20% too small for the average traveler is patently ignorant. At some point customer service (in this case, comfort) must play a role. When my wife, who is 5'9" and very slightly built, has to scrunch up in order to fit into the seat and her knees are physically touching the seat in front of her, the seats are too damn small and the spacing too damn tight. I know my shoulders are too wide to fit in any airline seat, much less comfortably. Flying aisle seats and having to lean over so the guy next to me has a modicum of room is just the way it is. But if I have to "do my homework" in order to find a seat that fits her, then seatguru.com, Mr. Delta CEO, and airlines in general can bite me.

Brad

Not to pick on you specifically Brad, but I hear this a lot from folks that don't like flying (often from folks in the small seats) But in practice, customers almost unanimously choose small seats and no frills to save $30 on the fair.  There's been a lot of studies by airlines and the travelocity/kayak type agents, and the race to the bottom that domestic airlines are finishing up is driven by the fact that folks buy on schedule and fare.  Not comfort, or seat room, or meals, or any of the things folks complain about not having.

Like Ben I consciously pay more for at least premium coach when I fly, but almost everyone I talk to in that section is a pretty frequent flyer. The "once every year or two, or less" flyers overwhelmingly buy the cheapest ticket they can find, then dislike the flight.

You get what you pay for.
« Last Edit: February 18, 2020, 03:27:58 AM by dogmush »

Hawkmoon

  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 27,261
Re: Airline Seatback Wars
« Reply #21 on: February 18, 2020, 03:24:49 AM »
I know airlines are a business and they're trying to fit as many people as possible, but charging people a significant amount of money and then expecting them to somehow magically fit into seats 20% too small for the average traveler is patently ignorant. At some point customer service (in this case, comfort) must play a role. When my wife, who is 5'9" and very slightly built, has to scrunch up in order to fit into the seat and her knees are physically touching the seat in front of her, the seats are too damn small and the spacing too damn tight. I know my shoulders are too wide to fit in any airline seat, much less comfortably. Flying aisle seats and having to lean over so the guy next to me has a modicum of room is just the way it is. But if I have to "do my homework" in order to find a seat that fits her, then seatguru.com, Mr. Delta CEO, and airlines in general can bite me.


Seatguru is of no help in many cases. Since it was Delta's preident who opened his pie hole, I checked Delta. The economy coach seats don't allow you to choose your seat ahead of check-in. Your seat is assigned to you arbitrarily when you check in, and that's that. If you want to choose what seat you're going to be in, you have to pay extra for a "preferred seating" ticket. Unless you luck out and get an exit row, preferred seating doesn't get you any extra legroom -- it just allows you to select which instrument of torture you will be subjected to.

I expect that American now operates the same way. The days are long gone when anyone could show up early and just request an exit or bulkhead row seat to get a bit more legroom.

The answer is to remove one row of seats and give everyone in coach an additional inch and a half (or so) of legroom.
- - - - - - - - - - - - -
100% Politically Incorrect by Design

Hawkmoon

  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 27,261
Re: Airline Seatback Wars
« Reply #22 on: February 18, 2020, 03:42:10 AM »
Not to pick on you specifically Brad, but I hear this a lot from folks that don't like flying (often from folks in the small seats) But in practice, customers almost unanimously choose small seats and no frills to save $30 on the fair.  There's been a lot of studies by airlines and the travelocity/kayak type agents, and the race to the bottom that domestic airlines are finishing up is driven by the fact that folks buy on schedule and fare.  Not comfort, or seat room, or meals, or any of the things folks complain about not having.


It's not saving $30 on the fare. It can be a LOT more. I'm looking at a possible trip from New York to Atlanta soon, so I called up the flight into I had been looking at on Travelocity. For the dates I had used (round trip), I started with Delta. Economy Coach ranged from $217 to $317, depending on what time of day the flights depart. To upgrade to Premium Coach (same days, same flights), the prices jump to $405 to (hold on!) $1,371! That's right -- over a grand, for Premium Coach. So, at best, the price for human-scale legroom runs roughly double what Economy costs.

Then I looked at American, and the results made no sense at all. Maybe they don't do Premium Economy, but Travelocity allowed me to search for it. Economy Coach (same dates as the Delta flights) ranged from $287 to $850. For Premium Coach the range was $232 to $293. (Yes, I double checked to be sure I didn't get them inverted -- I didn't.)

I haven't been on a flight to anywhere, domestic or international, in the last 15 or 20 years that had even one vacant seat. There's no shortage of people who want (or need) to fly. If removing one row of seats in coach to give everyone some semblance of adequate legroom and knee space raises the lowest price tickets by 5 percent, the industry will never even notice it. People will still fly.
- - - - - - - - - - - - -
100% Politically Incorrect by Design

dogmush

  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 13,866
Re: Airline Seatback Wars
« Reply #23 on: February 18, 2020, 03:51:28 AM »
Delta has 4 tiers of tickets available for almost all of it's flights.  The very cheapest doesn't let you pick a seat (which in practice means you get a middle seat) and doesn't let you grab any of the cheap upgrades on travel day.  It also effectively puts you in a later boarding group so overhead space is likely very limited or gone.

The first step up lets you pick a seat (so you can actually get a window or aisle)  You won't get an exit row or bulkhead, so there will be no extra room here.  It does let you choose to upgrade day of travel if there are cheap upgrades available.  It is, IME, about $30 more per ticket.

Mid tier is Delta Comfort+.  This is where seats get bigger, exit rows are available, dedicated overhead space exists, and there's free beer.  On my "normal" delta flight (Tampa to LA) this is about $80-$100 more than base "get me on an aircraft" economy.

So here's the thing:  In theory, most folks say they want Comfort+.  That's what Hawkmoon's "answer" of removing a seat gets you.  But in practice, when offered that, folks won't pay for it.  EVERY Delta flight I've been on in the last 4 years had some unsold Comfort+ seats that Main Cabin could upgrade into, and Basic Economy folks were crying about not being able to buy, even though it's pretty clear on the ticket that there are no upgrades.

Back when Comfort+ level cabins were the norm, folks started new airlines to sardine can folks in aircraft for $40-$100 less per ticket, and were packed.  That's why Southwest, Frontier, Spirit, JetBlue and others exist today.  Because no matter how much folks SAY they want more leg room and more comfort when given the option, they buy the cheapest available flight.  That's the actual practice.  Main Cabin and basic seats are packed full.  Mid tier is almost always still available day of travel, and folks can be talked into upgrading.  First class often isn't sold out.  If Delta tried to sell every ticket at the ~$80 more Comfort+ costs, everyone would go to Southwest.  That's what actually happened  in 2006 when Southwest opened up nationwide service.


Curiosity question:  How many folks here actually pay extra for the nicer seats when given the opportunity?  Pretty much every domestic airline offers some version of Comfort+ as a tier between sardine can and first class.  Who pays for it?

I agree that main cabin seating on domestic US airlines sucks now.  It makes travel a chore if you are back there, but it's the result of pretty basic economic cause and effect.  Basically Americans got the air travel they voted for.


ETA:  Hawk and I cross posted.  I tend to fly from Tampa to LAX as my most common, and that's where my price delta's come from.  I'm not sure why he saw so much more price.  I know that more stops tends to increase the cost of the upgrade.  Also, I confess, I haven't even looked at the cost of a basic economy coach ticket in years, as I am not going to buy one.  The delta may have increased.

Hawkmoon

  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 27,261
Re: Airline Seatback Wars
« Reply #24 on: February 18, 2020, 04:11:55 AM »

Curiosity question:  How many folks here actually pay extra for the nicer seats when given the opportunity?  Pretty much every domestic airline offers some version of Comfort+ as a tier between sardine can and first class.  Who pays for it?


I cited actual prices, from an actual search I just ran. I would cheerfully pay $30 extra for Comfort+, even without the free beer. But I'm not willing (or able) to pay double the Economy Coach fare (or triple) just to get an extra inch or two of legroom.

Quote
ETA:  Hawk and I cross posted.  I tend to fly from Tampa to LAX as my most common, and that's where my price delta's come from.  I'm not sure why he saw so much more price.  I know that more stops tends to increase the cost of the upgrade.  Also, I confess, I haven't even looked at the cost of a basic economy coach ticket in years, as I am not going to buy one.  The delta may have increased.

The Delta flights I found were all non-stop. The American flights, for whatever reason, were all one stop.
- - - - - - - - - - - - -
100% Politically Incorrect by Design