School support staff now officially outnumber teachers

[AZRedhawk44]

How?

A big difference between 19th century / early 20th century education, and current education, is the insistence on educating children that are disruptive or destructive of the educational environment.  Or educating children that demonstrate a distinct desire to NOT be educated.

There's been a shift in the last 30 years, sacrificing potential top achievement with the intent of bolstering middle-to-low achievers.  Part of that shift has been reticence to fail students that don't achieve objectives.  Part of that shift has been lowering of standards for all students.  The net result is bored bright kids, less top tier subject level mastery, and more disruptive elements being compelled to remain in an environment they clearly don't want to be in.

Some people aren't capable of a High School education.  Particularly if you measure it by pre-Federalization standards.

Make a HS Diploma have value again.  Fail kids that don't deserve it.

Failing elementary schoolers that demonstrate traits of kids that will grow up to be high school disrupters will give them a shock and a social stigma.  Some people take being held back as a lesson.  Some people just need it.  And some people just can't cut it and need to be culled.

Here's the thing:  Regardless of education standards, the market will have the same number of jobs available, and the same degree of entrepreneurship available.  Browbeating a disruptive kid into staying in "school" until he "graduates" (even though he can't read on a 4th grade level) doesn't mean that person is any more valuable to an employer than a disruptive kid that is kicked out of school at age 14 (after being held back several years) and has no diploma.  He's still gonna be a fry cook at the local McDonalds.

So what's worth more?  An education system that "graduates" a near 100% population of morons?  Or an education system that graduates 75% of the population, perhaps 10-20% of which are well versed in Calculus, CAD, basics of the classical sciences, and are solid communicators both oral and written?

This is also how you attack degree-bloat.  Not only do you make a HS Diploma valuable again, you make the GPA and selected coursework something people pay attention to.  I'd take one of those 10% HS graduates from my hypothetical system well before I'd take a DeVry or U-Phx graduate under the current system.  I can train someone naturally bright to do anything.  I can't train a "system gamer" that does the minimum required work to get by.

[cordex]

To be clear, I'm not arguing against failing students who haven't earned a passing grade, and I am already completely on board with how that might be a good thing in and of itself. 

I'm wondering how failing a disruptive kid and making them repeat a grade with a new group of kids is going to improve things.  Maybe it'll shock some of them into shaping up and flying right, but the kinds of kids who I've seen be most disruptive are just going to roll the same issues down to another set of kids now as an older, cooler role model.

Some of them just need to be booted from the school, and it sounds like you were lumping in punishments for repeat disruptiveness in with academic failure.  I see them as completely distinct things.  I think a kid who isn't bright or focused enough to pass a grade might benefit from being failed and having to repeat a grade.  On the other hand, a kid who is disruptive probably needs a separate punishment but I don't know what the best solution would be for them.

[AZRedhawk44]

I'm not saying that the disruptive ones get to stay in class, being *ssholes.  Make use of detention and suspension, and hold them accountable for knowing the material.

They obviously won't know it, and they'll fail.  And they'll get held back.  And if they're disruptive... detention and suspension.  Get them OUT of the classroom.  Permanently, if need be.  Get held back once?  Shyt happens.  Get held back twice?  Better get on it.  Get held back again?  Nope.  You're out.  Enjoy that fry cook job, or good luck finding something better.  Try not to get shot for stealing from someone doing better than you.  I hear that drug companies pay well for clinical trial subjects.  Hope your spleen holds out.

[RoadKingLarry]

Giving too many deserving F's will probably get the teacher punished.

It happens on the university level.

It pretty well worked that way for my daughter in her first year of teaching. One of the reasons she was given for her contract not being renewed was she had to many under performing kids even though she had full documentation for every failing grade she gave.
She is now on her 3rd year as a teacher after being hired by Tulsa public schools to teach science (seeing as she has a Masters in biology). She teaches math and social studies at a high diversity number inner city elementary school.
One of her biggest complaints is the significant number of 4th and 5th graders that simply cannot read. She has to slow down the class to keep them as close to "up to speed" as possible which essentially drags down the entire class to the level of the weakest link.