Carrier captain relieved of command over COVID

[Hawkmoon]

Surprise, surprise!

Three other carriers' crews also have COVID-19.

https://www.usnews.com/news/national-news/articles/2020-04-09/military-warns-of-coronavirus-breakouts-aboard-uss-nimitz-aircraft-carrier

[Andiron]

Lucky us....

Time to call the *expletive deleted*ing Russians and see if they'll just agree to glass china with us.  They don't like Chicoms, we don't like Chicoms..

[French G.]

Only thing I can add from my time on the ship is that any carrier has a medical not really set up for this. Some operating theaters, exam rooms like you would see at your normal GP, some open bay beds and a very little bit of isolation. Chances of making it negative pressure are not good.

So, if I were on any large navy ship now I suppose it would go something like this. There are four eating areas on TR. Forward messdecks, aft messdecks, chiefs mess and wardroom. The main messdecks are high traffic areas on the second deck so would not work for isolating people. Wardroom is on the O3 level and it could make sense, isolate sick people in nearby staterooms, block off traffic in the area, feed them there. Chiefs mess is 3rd deck pretty far aft, could close that, there are nearby berthings to put just sick people in. Medical is 2nd deck in between the two main mess areas, just don't think they have the bed capacity to put people there and transport food to them. For anyone not quarantined the routine is simple and predictable. You will clean and scrub. Then you will do it again. Talk about never letting a crisis go to waste, there are a bunch of folks E-6 to E-9 that this is a dream come true. Paint might not kill corona, but damnit we're gonna find out.

Medical on a large deck amphib is actually better than a carrier but that is because they are planning on wounded Marines, hence the morgue also. Still not really set up for infectious isolation.

[BobR]

Only thing I can add from my time on the ship is that any carrier has a medical not really set up for this. Some operating theaters, exam rooms like you would see at your normal GP, some open bay beds and a very little bit of isolation. Chances of making it negative pressure are not good.

So, if I were on any large navy ship now I suppose it would go something like this. There are four eating areas on TR. Forward messdecks, aft messdecks, chiefs mess and wardroom. The main messdecks are high traffic areas on the second deck so would not work for isolating people. Wardroom is on the O3 level and it could make sense, isolate sick people in nearby staterooms, block off traffic in the area, feed them there. Chiefs mess is 3rd deck pretty far aft, could close that, there are nearby berthings to put just sick people in. Medical is 2nd deck in between the two main mess areas, just don't think they have the bed capacity to put people there and transport food to them. For anyone not quarantined the routine is simple and predictable. You will clean and scrub. Then you will do it again. Talk about never letting a crisis go to waste, there are a bunch of folks E-6 to E-9 that this is a dream come true. Paint might not kill corona, but damnit we're gonna find out.

Medical on a large deck amphib is actually better than a carrier but that is because they are planning on wounded Marines, hence the morgue also. Still not really set up for infectious isolation.

          

Aint that the truth, and don't forget about the tile that has to come up, it might be harboring the virus!


bob

[Perd Hapley]

Though Modly later embarrassed and pwned himself, I think he gave a very reasonable explanation for relieving Crozier of command. 

https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/navy-relieve-captain-aircraft-carrier-leak-letter-leadership/story?id=69944944

Modly said the incident with Crozier's letter was "frustrating because of what it does."

"It undermines our efforts -- and the chain of command's efforts -- to address this problem and creates a panic and creates the perception that the Navy is not on the job, the government's not on the job, and it's just not true," he said.

"He's being relieved because to me that demonstrated extremely poor judgment in the middle of a crisis," said Modly. "Because of what it's done, it's has created a firestorm. It's created doubts about the ship's ability to go to sea if it needs to. It's created doubt among the families, about the health of their sailors."

Modly said he had no information to indicate that Crozier personally leaked the letter, but noted that in emailing it to 20-30 people he provided an opportunity for the letter to be leaked.

[WLJ]

There's a link on foxnews website's homepage to a video titled

USS Roosevelt sailor dies after battling COVID-19
A U.S. Navy sailor assigned to the USS Roosevelt has died from coronavirus.

But I can't get the page to load right

[MechAg94]

https://www.cnn.com/2020/04/13/politics/theodore-roosevelt-sailor-coronavirus/index.html
Sailor aboard USS Theodore Roosevelt dies of coronavirus

https://www.politico.com/news/2020/04/13/sailor-uss-roosevelt-dies-coronavirus-183164
Sailor from USS Theodore Roosevelt dies of coronavirus

Four additional sailors from the ship were admitted to the hospital over the weekend, according to Navy spokesperson Cmdr. Clay Doss. They are all in stable condition; none is in the ICU and none require a ventilator, he said.


The sailor, whose name is being withheld until family is notified, was an older member of the crew, according to a senior defense official.

The sailor tested positive for the coronavirus on March 30 and was removed from the ship and placed in an isolation house on Naval Base Guam with four other crew members, according to the Navy.

[Jamisjockey]

https://www.cnn.com/2020/04/13/politics/theodore-roosevelt-sailor-coronavirus/index.html
Sailor aboard USS Theodore Roosevelt dies of coronavirus

https://www.politico.com/news/2020/04/13/sailor-uss-roosevelt-dies-coronavirus-183164
Sailor from USS Theodore Roosevelt dies of coronavirus


The sailor, whose name is being withheld until family is notified, was an older member of the crew, according to a senior defense official.

"Older member of the crew"
Military retirement is 20 years and few go past that.  So the dude was in his 30's, maybe early 40's.  Older my ass.

[French G.]

There are outliers. We had some reservists that used to come to the TR and one had to be pushing 60. Our surgeon on that ship was well past sixty and broken service senior enlisted run into the fifties commonly.

[BobR]

"Older member of the crew"
Military retirement is 20 years and few go past that.  So the dude was in his 30's, maybe early 40's.  Older my ass.

Could possibly be older, the Command Master Chief, usually an old fart nearing 30+ years on AD, the Chaplain, the BG Commander (Admiral), Senior Medical Officer and maybe some late bloomers. I worked with a Senior Chief who entered the Navy right before he was too old, he did a career with Flying Tigers Airlines and Northwest then came into the Navy. So there are some out there on AD that could be approaching 50s or older, not a lot, but some. It will be interesting to see how old this guy actually was.

bob

[dogmush]

"Older member of the crew"
Military retirement is 20 years and few go past that.  So the dude was in his 30's, maybe early 40's.  Older my ass.

Officers can do 25-30 years starting after college.

Lots of folks these days have breaks in service as well.  Did 6 when GWOT started, were out for 15 or so , and come back in to finish up.

Then there are reservists that volunteer to do Active tours to augment active duty.

Mandatory retirement age is 60, waiverable to 62, and I know plenty of folks who get close to that.

[BobR]

Older member of the crew was 41 years old.

https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/news/navy-identifies-roosevelt-sailor-who-died-from-coronavirus-outbreak



bob

[tokugawa]

So far- 4800 crew, 4500 tested. 600 positive, about 60 percent with no symptoms. 240 with symptoms.
5 admitted to hospital, one dead.

 So about as close quarters as possible, 1 out of seven infected, half of those with no symptoms.
Odds are, the unfortunate deceased  had other conditions as well. Almost all the younger victims do, if you drill into the stories a bit.
 
 This info fits perfectly with the info from Italy, Virginia, and NYC. The virus is killing the old and the sick, if one is in good health, not diabetic or obese and under 60, it is not worth worrying about.

 We don't have a medical crisis- we have a medical excuse for an economic and political crisis.
 
 Today- 397 homeless were tested in Boston. about 150 were positive. None had any symptoms.
 
 It saddens  me to see so many frightened people, spurred on by the lying scum media and political grifters, unable to put the numbers together. We are being lied to. Led around like sheep. Mass hysteria.

 This is far more widespread than believed, and far less deadly to the general population.


 

 

[kgbsquirrel]

So far- 4800 crew, 4500 tested. 600 positive, about 60 percent with no symptoms. 240 with symptoms.
5 admitted to hospital, one dead.

 So about as close quarters as possible, 1 out of seven infected, half of those with no symptoms.
Odds are, the unfortunate deceased  had other conditions as well. Almost all the younger victims do, if you drill into the stories a bit.
 
 This info fits perfectly with the info from Italy, Virginia, and NYC. The virus is killing the old and the sick, if one is in good health, not diabetic or obese and under 60, it is not worth worrying about.

 We don't have a medical crisis- we have a medical excuse for an economic and political crisis.
 
 Today- 397 homeless were tested in Boston. about 150 were positive. None had any symptoms.
 
 It saddens  me to see so many frightened people, spurred on by the lying scum media and political grifters, unable to put the numbers together. We are being lied to. Led around like sheep. Mass hysteria.

 This is far more widespread than believed, and far less deadly to the general population.


 

 

Our courageous politicians won't let facts get in the way of government power grabs.

[Angel Eyes]

The captain may be reinstated:

https://theweek.com/speedreads/910885/navy-reportedly-recommends-captain-ousted-over-coronavirus-warning-reinstated

[French G.]

The captain may be reinstated:

https://theweek.com/speedreads/910885/navy-reportedly-recommends-captain-ousted-over-coronavirus-warning-reinstated

They should not. Not because he is a bad guy, I believe he loves his sailors. But because the message it sends to every other CO. Jump the chain, leak to the press, get rewards. One sailor died. Newsflash, on every deployment I ever went on, including 3 on the TR, someone died, none from combat. From the tragic to the absurd; I think close to twenty people checked out in my 5 years on the TR. If you are a CO you are going to call families of dead sailors. Even as an E-5 fire team leader I knew I was expendable. I knew that personnel casualties I encountered were going to be ignored because moving my teams to where the fire was was more important than a sailor's life. I trained my people to that on my next ship when I led a fifty person repair locker. We are going to save the ship or die trying. Those already hurt or dead can't help me do that, we will help them when we have time. I dressed a fire team including myself when we looked to have a real mainspace boiler fire. I knew my odds were not good if we went down. Calmest and happiest I have been in life. Somehow the 700 gallons of FO that sprayed on the boiler face didn't ignite. Yay.

[RoadKingLarry]

Jump the chain, leak to the press,

Did the CO actually leak to the press or did one of the recipients of his email make the leak?
From my limited experience the CO was damned no matter what he did. I strongly suspect that he had made proper reports up the CoC and was being ignored when he strongly believed he had the beginnings of a very serious crisis on his ship and took the measure of going around his immediate superiors that had discounted his concerns.
As things turned out the ship was put in the spot light and action was taken and loss of life was minimized and the CO was relieved of command. Had he not taken those actions and shone a spotlight on the problem it could have gone one of two ways. The virus didn't infect enough of his crew to cripple the ship and after a difficult time things went on, that hardly seems likely. Or the virus could have run rampant on the ship, sickening and killing many of the crew. In that case the CO would have been crucified both professionally and in the court of public opinion and I don't see it as out of the realm of probability that he would have been brought up on charges for neglect.

Sometimes, even when you do the right thing you still get *expletive deleted*ed.

[French G.]

The virus did sicken many of the crew. One died. Wanna take bets on a 41 year old AO Chief being a smoker? He made the right call if he ran any unit not a strategic US asset. What if he had a SSBN? Screw strategic deterrence, we're going to Guam. Iran getting frisky is a direct result of the carrier leaving the gulf to cover TRs area so that China wouldn't get frisky. And I like the captain. I like most pilots despite them breaking my stuff. I have no doubt I would feel cared for if I was still TR crew. But I saw them relieved for less, even the ones I liked. I respect him for taking action when he had to know he would get fired. But he didn't think it through. On the bright side it got Modly fired, so there is that. All those words the APS language filter won't let me say? Yeah, he is that.

[MechAg94]

I think he should be able to rehabilitate his career as far as that goes, but putting him back on the same ship is saying everything he did was correct.  IMO, that raises questions about his immediate chain of command and why he went outside of it, or at least that the Navy is questioning his chain of command.  I wouldn't expect the Navy to reinstate him even if they did think the Captain was right.  (but I have no experience with that sort of military stuff). 

On the Sec of the Navy, he was part of saying the Captain should know his emails jumping the chain of command would get leaked then he addresses the crew saying some personal comments about the Captain which he should have expected would be leaked.  Odd circumstances there.  Not conduct I would expect of someone that high up the chain of command.  

[RoadKingLarry]

It was my experience while I was in the Navy that in the event of a casualty situation the first order of business, no matter the problem, was the placement of blame, preferably at the lowest level possible. Analytical evaluation of the circumstances, efficacy of the immediate response,  finding ways to prevent future occurrences, all of that is meaningless unless someone can be directly blamed for the event.

[BobR]

It was my experience while I was in the Navy that in the event of a casualty situation the first order of business, no matter the problem, was the placement of blame, preferably at the lowest level possible. Analytical evaluation of the circumstances, efficacy of the immediate response,  finding ways to prevent future occurrences, all of that is meaningless unless someone can be directly blamed for the event.

That thinking is old and it seems to be completely out of touch with the way things are done today especially in any high visibility incident. It is much easier to lay the blame on the Skipper and relieve him for "loss of confidence" than it is to do a root cause analysis and find out what is really wrong and fix it.

bob

[Hawkmoon]

Bob, I think you and RKL are really saying the same thing, not the opposite.

[BobR]

Bob, I think you and RKL are really saying the same thing, not the opposite.

\
Sort of kind of, we are saying the same thing but rather than try to fix at lowest level now days they just seem to go after the skipper or other high ranking individual. Doesn't fix anything but it sure does help keep the Flag Ranks from getting any more bloated.

bob

[MillCreek]

https://www.seattletimes.com/nation-world/nation-politics/sailors-on-sidelined-carrier-get-virus-for-second-time/?utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=owned_echobox_f&utm_source=Facebook&fbclid=IwAR1mEtY9QKfF8tSeM4r90v9qotfqJDNejf2ywfRzijgRUmJoCX_-ccvoWkQ#Echobox=1589570244

Some sailors on the carrier get the virus a second time.  And you would like to think that getting it once confers some sort of immunity.  Maybe not so much.

[Perd Hapley]

There were some Covid survivors (in Korea, I think) that got the disease again, but it was later determined to be more like a second round of symptoms than re-infection. Maybe the jury is still out on immunity.