It's about darn time: Antifa to be designated a "terrorist organization".

[charby]

Except Antifa is an organization that receives orders and funding from somebody.

They are not an organic grassroots group seeking social justice.

They have been committing domestic terrorism for over a decade.

Looters and anarchists should be shot.

The alternative is where we are now, they keep using violence and the threat of violence to get what they want. It's extortion.

 

Pretty much any civil unrest, left or right, that gets drug out for days, is funded by someone else who has alternative motives.

[AZRedhawk44]

Looters and anarchists should be shot.



 

What about an anarchist merits his immediate death?

Local anarchists would like to know.

[AZRedhawk44]

I want to expound a bit for Ron, and others, that may not know how deep the divide is within Anarchist communities.

There are anarcho-capitalists, like me.  Free markets all the way. 

There are anarcho-syndicalists.

There are anarcho-mutualists.

There are anarcho-transhumanists.

There are anarcho-communists.

There are anarcho-primitivists.

There are agorists.

There is some overlap among many of these groups.   But the one constant, is that any "anarchists" in AntiFa are overwhelmingly anarcho-communists, and AnComs can never coexist in any constructive movement put together by any of the other anarcho-factions.

Cody Wilson of Defense Distributed fame is an Anarchist.  No... he is most certainly not an AnCom.

[kgbsquirrel]

I want to expound a bit for Ron, and others, that may not know how deep the divide is within Anarchist communities.

There are anarcho-capitalists, like me.  Free markets all the way. 

There are anarcho-syndicalists.

There are anarcho-mutualists.

There are anarcho-transhumanists.

There are anarcho-communists.

There are anarcho-primitivists.

There are agorists.

There is some overlap among many of these groups.   But the one constant, is that any "anarchists" in AntiFa are overwhelmingly anarcho-communists, and AnComs can never coexist in any constructive movement put together by any of the other anarcho-factions.

Cody Wilson of Defense Distributed fame is an Anarchist.  No... he is most certainly not an AnCom.

Anarcho-communism is a contradiction in terms.

[Ron]

What about an anarchist merits his immediate death?

Local anarchists would like to know.

I was referencing the folks who call themselves "anarchists" who show up in cities around the world to burn, destroy and commit violence.

It would probably be safe to say they aren't true anarchists but tools, foot soldiers of some other hidden power(s).

Mob action violence and arson unfortunately must be met with force. Like a lot of folks here, in the past I haven't as been as gung ho on the use of violence in these situations.

I feel the battle lines are clearer now.

[MechAg94]

I don't know if I would say I am for violence, but I always thought there should be a line drawn between peaceful protest and rioting/looting.  The major media seem to disagree. 

I would be in favor of modifying the self defense laws to allow lethal force to defend against rioters.  I feel like a lot of city govts tend to put a lot more effort into prosecuting people who resist rioting/looting than the people doing the rioting and looting.  The big corporations may not care if one of their offices gets trashed, but there are a lot of small business owners who get ruined in these events that no one seems to care about.  Or how many people have been beaten or crippled or killed by rioters. 

[Ben]

I don't know if I would say I am for violence, but I always thought there should be a line drawn between peaceful protest and rioting/looting.  The major media seem to disagree. 

I would be in favor of modifying the self defense laws to allow lethal force to defend against rioters.  I feel like a lot of city govts tend to put a lot more effort into prosecuting people who resist rioting/looting than the people doing the rioting and looting.  The big corporations may not care if one of their offices gets trashed, but there are a lot of small business owners who get ruined in these events that no one seems to care about.  Or how many people have been beaten or crippled or killed by rioters. 

It would go a long ways, both in public opinion and as a warning to rioters, if these larger cities would actually send rioters to jail versus arresting and releasing or arresting and ticketing. Or doing nothing to "let them blow off steam".

It's infuriating to me that in some of these large blue cities I could be fined $10K for a microaggression, but rioters are for the most part slapped on the hand.

[MechAg94]

https://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2020/06/pure-evil-police-chief-breaks-describing-richmond-leftist-rioters-torched-home-children-inside-blocked-fire-department-video/

I saw this article on the other thread.  It also reminded me of an interview I heard yesterday about a known conservative that had someone post her home address online.  A group showed up at her house blowing up firework mortars around her house and banging on her doors and windows.  The police were unable to respond due to the rioting. 

When some of these people are willing to set fire to buildings, it seems to me that barricading yourself inside might not be an option.  And how do you know that their only intent is to harass and terrorize.  If you are barricaded in, how do you know they won't escalate?  

[French G.]

Here is my only problem with the idea of all flavors of anarchist except for the an-coms. There is a NAP so if an anarchist takes over his corner of the world and subjugates  the weak then the anarchist community slaps the no true Scotsman test on the case and declares them not an anarchist. It’s a nice idea for something like ancapistan, I doubt its implementation just like I suspect all utopianists. Eventually you have to kill the undesirables spoiling your paradise. I am closest to a constitutional minarchist if such a thing can exist.

An-coms should be shot

[Perd Hapley]

A "Harvard educated" moron has returned.

https://twitchy.com/dougp-3137/2020/06/01/harvard-scholar-david-hogg-tries-to-slam-trump-by-speaking-of-his-grandfather-who-was-part-of-the-antifa-forces-in-wwii-and-people-have-thoughts/

Such sick burns, I didn't know whether to call the FD or the ambulance.

[fifth_column]

https://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2020/06/pure-evil-police-chief-breaks-describing-richmond-leftist-rioters-torched-home-children-inside-blocked-fire-department-video/

I saw this article on the other thread.  It also reminded me of an interview I heard yesterday about a known conservative that had someone post her home address online.  A group showed up at her house blowing up firework mortars around her house and banging on her doors and windows.  The police were unable to respond due to the rioting. 

When some of these people are willing to set fire to buildings, it seems to me that barricading yourself inside might not be an option.  And how do you know that their only intent is to harass and terrorize?  If you are barricaded in, how do you know they won't escalate?  

I suppose full-blown riots could potentially cover a whole heck of a lot of terrorist attacks . . . .

[Perd Hapley]

I'm more concerned with the label of "Antifa" as being a legitimate target of State violence. People don't carry cards or "register" as Antifa.

If you let the State determine who is "Antifa" for this round, who's to say the State will be 100% accurate or not have political bias to label unwanted voices as "Antifa" when they are not?

No one carries cards or registers as members of the usual brand of criminal (thief, murderer, etc.) We let the state, or actually we charge the state to, determine who is breaking the law, and use necessary force to apprehend them. I can understand why people would want to try anarchy, but I'm not sure why identifying Antifa as terrorists is something new or different from what the state normally does.

But labeling a "thought" as a CRIME is reprehensible. When that is backed by the violence of the State, it is treason against reason and rationality.

True, but maybe you could explain who's doing that here?

I admit I've not been paying attention to this. I've actually been busy moving from a town that's 27% black to one that's 38% black. Things seem quiet there.

[AZRedhawk44]

When Trump labels AntiFa as a terrorist organization, that then initiates all manner of NSA/CIA/FBI resources being spent on destroying that organization.  There's a difference between stopping arsonists and vandals, and infiltrating an ideological movement.

I hate their ideas.  But they have a right to them.  Under the government in place here, they have a right to build support for their positions by voicing their philosophy and drawing in people that agree. 

I hate many democrat ideas.  I hate many republican ideas.  But they have the same right.

The problem is the disassociation between the actions that are problematic, and the ideological propagation.  Shoot the molotov flingers.  Arrest the trash can kickers for littering.  Arrest the taggers for defacing private property.  Go for it.  They're destroying something that has nothing to do with racial biased police brutality.  With the exception of Minneapolis' burnt precinct building.  Screw that PD.  They deserve exactly what's coming to them if they hold to their TBL crap.  That building earned its fate through the actions of its agents and occupants.

[lee n. field]

I'm more concerned with the label of "Antifa" as being a legitimate target of State violence. People don't carry cards or "register" as Antifa.

If you let the State determine who is "Antifa" for this round, who's to say the State will be 100% accurate or not have political bias to label unwanted voices as "Antifa" when they are not?

I"m an Anarchist. But I'm an AnCap (Anarcho-Capitalist). We don't go around burning stores because of the actions of government. I will admit I'm perfectly content with the burning of the Minneapolis Police Precinct in the wake of Mr. Floyd's murder.  On par with Athens, TN, from 1946.  That department did the deed, that police union backs that officer, that officer's partner sat back and watched the murder and didn't intervene.  Way too much of that *expletive deleted*it going on, and it has to stop.

But because I oppose the notion of Democracy or mob rule, if I become enough of a nuisance it's not that big of a stretch for the State to label me as a member of Antifa because I'm an "Anarchist" (even though that wing of philosophy is far more broad than the divide between Democrats and Republicans).

Mr. Neimoller's poem "First they came" comes to mind.

I don't support Antifa. I'd shoot a sidewalk full of them dead for advancing on a store with molotovs.  But I happily leave them alone, otherwise.  And they do the same to me.

It's pretty easy for the State, in collusion with the Media in its pocket, to just paint someone with a target label and get away with slander to false imprisonment to murder.

But labeling a "thought" as a CRIME is reprehensible. When that is backed by the violence of the State, it is treason against reason and rationality.

Would you mind if I quoted this elsewhere?  With identifying information removed, of course.

[AZRedhawk44]

Go for  it.

[AZRedhawk44]

It came to me what really bothers me.

There's a war going on for your mind.

Designating an ideology as illegal opens the door to thoughtcrime.

Democrats do this with firearms ownership.  Republicans do this through BigState reactions to criminal actions.  But they both do it.  They think they can control my thoughts.  They think they have license to do so.

I refuse to grant that license.

I reserve all manner of right to any and all thoughts.  To explore all ideologies for merit or lack of merit.  To freely associate with anyone I wish, free from criminal allegation for mere association.

[makattak]

It came to me what really bothers me.

There's a war going on for your mind.

Designating an ideology as illegal opens the door to thoughtcrime.

Democrats do this with firearms ownership.  Republicans do this through BigState reactions to criminal actions.  But they both do it.  They think they can control my thoughts.  They think they have license to do so.

I refuse to grant that license.

I reserve all manner of right to any and all thoughts.  To explore all ideologies for merit or lack of merit.  To freely associate with anyone I wish, free from criminal allegation for mere association.

... so this is the first time in the history of our country that an organization has been declared a terrorist organization?

[Perd Hapley]

When Trump labels AntiFa as a terrorist organization, that then initiates all manner of NSA/CIA/FBI resources being spent on destroying that organization.  There's a difference between stopping arsonists and vandals, and infiltrating an ideological movement.

I hate their ideas.  But they have a right to them.  Under the government in place here, they have a right to build support for their positions by voicing their philosophy and drawing in people that agree. 

I still don't know why you think the Feds are getting ready to criminalize anyone's political beliefs. Actively plotting violence and property destruction and arson are crimes; not political beliefs.

[Perd Hapley]

... so this is the first time in the history of our country that an organization has been declared a terrorist organization?

That's what I was wondering.

[cordex]

... so this is the first time in the history of our country that an organization has been declared a terrorist organization?

Outside of local governments making largely meaningless proclamations I can't personally think of any other domestic organization that has been declared a terrorist organization.  My understanding that such a designation largely has real meaning in an international context.

[Perd Hapley]

Redhawk, it sounds like you think an Islamic terror cell shouldn't be designated a terror cell, because people have a right to believe in Islam. I just don't think that's how it works.

[Angel Eyes]

Outside of local governments making largely meaningless proclamations I can't personally think of any other domestic organization that has been declared a terrorist organization.

Not to nitpick, but ...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ku_Klux_Klan#End_of_the_first_Klan

In 1870, a federal grand jury determined that the Klan was a "terrorist organization"[85] and issued hundreds of indictments for crimes of violence and terrorism. Klan members were prosecuted, and many fled from areas that were under federal government jurisdiction, particularly in South Carolina.[

[makattak]

Not to nitpick, but ...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ku_Klux_Klan#End_of_the_first_Klan

Rather appropriate that the first one was also the militant arm of the Democrat party.

[Ron]

Outside of local governments making largely meaningless proclamations I can't personally think of any other domestic organization that has been declared a terrorist organization.  My understanding that such a designation largely has real meaning in an international context.

Antifa has claimed they have a presence in many countries.

[Angel Eyes]

Rather appropriate that the first one was also the militant arm of the Democrat party.

Indeed.

Historian Eric Foner observed: "In effect, the Klan was a military force serving the interests of the Democratic party, the planter class, and all those who desired restoration of white supremacy. Its purposes were political, but political in the broadest sense, for it sought to affect power relations, both public and private, throughout Southern society. It aimed to reverse the interlocking changes sweeping over the South during Reconstruction: to destroy the Republican party's infrastructure, undermine the Reconstruction state, reestablish control of the black labor force, and restore racial subordination in every aspect of Southern life.[63] To that end they worked to curb the education, economic advancement, voting rights, and right to keep and bear arms of blacks.[63] The Klan soon spread into nearly every Southern state, launching a reign of terror against Republican leaders both black and white.