Author Topic: Student Loan Forgiveness  (Read 2788 times)

Ben

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Student Loan Forgiveness
« on: November 18, 2020, 08:57:10 AM »
Looks like this would be a top item in a Biden admin (relevant quotes for those that don't login to the ET):

Quote
One of the 15 policies listed in Biden’s COVID-19 response plan is forgiving $10,000 in student loans.

Senate Minority Leader Chuck Schumer (D-N.Y.) said earlier this month that a Biden White House should in its first 100 days erase $50,000 of student debt for each person, pointing to a proposal he put forth with Sen. Elizabeth Warren (D-Mass.)

“I have a proposal with Elizabeth Warren that the first $50,000 of debt be vanquished, and we believe that Joe Biden can do that with the pen as opposed to legislation,” Schumer told MSNBC analyst Anand Giridharadas.

Schumer said he envisioned Biden’s first 100 days looking like President Franklin D. Roosevelt’s first few months in office. Student debt is related to income equality, he added.

Biden also said "free education for anyone making under $125K". Which I guess he would have to do via legislation, vs pen, so it will count on what happens with the Senate seats.

https://www.theepochtimes.com/biden-calls-for-immediate-congressional-action-on-student-loan-forgiveness_3583933.html?utm_source=share-btn-copylink

This pisses me off to no end. I put off my education for nearly ten years while I worked in the oil fields and the county dump from 18 to 27, saving money for college, and then paying my way through undergrad and grad school with no loans (I did receive one small academic scholarship, and had my grad tuition reduced 75% because I TA'd and taught lab sections ). But hey, let's start kids off in life with the ideas that anything they want is free, and if it's not free, they can just blow off their debt with no consequences.

If they want to work on the student loan problem, as we have discussed here before, first investigate universities that charge $200 for a *expletive deleted*ing text book, well overpay their professors, and toss millions of dollars into ridiculous non-academic SJW bullshit. Then quit making "blue collar" and "trade school" dirty words. Also stop insisting people need a PhD for lower level tech positions. Trump has now taken care of the latter problem in the Civil Service. I expect 46 to reverse it if he gets in. Not paying kids to take "SJW studies" classes goes without saying.
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DittoHead

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Re: Student Loan Forgiveness
« Reply #1 on: November 18, 2020, 09:22:17 AM »
Quote
we believe that Joe Biden can do that with the pen as opposed to legislation

I don't think so, but I have been wrong about that before. Both Obama & Trump went farther with their pens than I though possible or prudent, I expect Biden will only continue that unfortunate trend.
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Ron

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Re: Student Loan Forgiveness
« Reply #2 on: November 18, 2020, 09:46:47 AM »
Forgive student debt and then make it illegal to make young adults debt slaves to the banks for their education.

I suspect most here have a net worth after subtracting the debt.

That is not the norm.

People carrying a lot of debt are easier to influence and control.

Trump should forgive student debt in his second term.
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griz

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Re: Student Loan Forgiveness
« Reply #3 on: November 18, 2020, 09:52:06 AM »
Quote
“I have a proposal with Elizabeth Warren that the first $50,000 of debt be vanquished, and we believe that Joe Biden can do that with the pen as opposed to legislation,”

Vanquished?  That makes it sound like they have magical power.

Maybe they do, with the stroke of a pen they can take money from future taxpayers and give it to people who spend faster than they earn.
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Nick1911

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Re: Student Loan Forgiveness
« Reply #4 on: November 18, 2020, 09:54:04 AM »
This is a problem that was really caused by government.  When the government backed student loans, they enabled everyone involved to make poor decisions.  Now we're trying to solve it with more government.

I took on student loan debt to complete my bachelors in IT.  My family didn't have much income, but they did have savings in the form of real estate, which guaranteed I got no help.  I ended up about $40k in the hole.  I considered it my most toxic debt, and prioritized paying it off.  Guess the joke was on me.

Brad Johnson

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Re: Student Loan Forgiveness
« Reply #5 on: November 18, 2020, 09:57:44 AM »
So, are they going to reimburse those who played Responsible Adult and paid their student loans?

Brad
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Lennyjoe

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Re: Student Loan Forgiveness
« Reply #6 on: November 18, 2020, 10:07:53 AM »
This is a problem that was really caused by government.  When the government backed student loans, they enabled everyone involved to make poor decisions.  Now we're trying to solve it with more government

^^^this is what started the mess.  Question is, how are they going to pay for it?  Higher taxes, more loans from China?  All I see is more free *expletive deleted*it in the backs of taxpayers

WLJ

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Re: Student Loan Forgiveness
« Reply #7 on: November 18, 2020, 10:24:10 AM »
Govt gets involved
Costs soar
People start expecting govt to pay for it. aka Make it free
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WLJ

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Re: Student Loan Forgiveness
« Reply #8 on: November 18, 2020, 10:24:49 AM »
So, are they going to reimburse those who played Responsible Adult and paid their student loans?

Brad

 :rofl:
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Ben

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Re: Student Loan Forgiveness
« Reply #9 on: November 18, 2020, 10:25:24 AM »
This is a problem that was really caused by government.  

I agree government had a major hand in this. Similar to the mortgage "crisis", where thanks to the likes of Barney Franks, banks had to give loans to people who didn't qualify, then played "hot potato" with those toxic loans.

I just don't believe more government is the answer. The students that took out high five-figure to mid-six-figure loans made poor choices, the same as people who took out ginormous loans to buy way more house than they could afford.

Government may have had a major hand, but if Uncle Sam tells me to jump off the Golden Gate Bridge to get to a pot of gold, I'm gonna use my brain and say "no". People have to take some responsibility for being suckers, and I just don't believe more government interference is the right answer, especially when it leaves me holding someone else's bag.  
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WLJ

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Re: Student Loan Forgiveness
« Reply #10 on: November 18, 2020, 10:29:25 AM »
Saw something a few days ago where some congress critters wanted this tied to race as part of reparations.
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charby

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Re: Student Loan Forgiveness
« Reply #11 on: November 18, 2020, 10:29:45 AM »
Looks like this would be a top item in a Biden admin (relevant quotes for those that don't login to the ET):

Biden also said "free education for anyone making under $125K". Which I guess he would have to do via legislation, vs pen, so it will count on what happens with the Senate seats.

https://www.theepochtimes.com/biden-calls-for-immediate-congressional-action-on-student-loan-forgiveness_3583933.html?utm_source=share-btn-copylink

This pisses me off to no end. I put off my education for nearly ten years while I worked in the oil fields and the county dump from 18 to 27, saving money for college, and then paying my way through undergrad and grad school with no loans (I did receive one small academic scholarship, and had my grad tuition reduced 75% because I TA'd and taught lab sections ). But hey, let's start kids off in life with the ideas that anything they want is free, and if it's not free, they can just blow off their debt with no consequences.

If they want to work on the student loan problem, as we have discussed here before, first investigate universities that charge $200 for a *expletive deleted*ing text book, well overpay their professors, and toss millions of dollars into ridiculous non-academic SJW bullshit. Then quit making "blue collar" and "trade school" dirty words. Also stop insisting people need a PhD for lower level tech positions. Trump has now taken care of the latter problem in the Civil Service. I expect 46 to reverse it if he gets in. Not paying kids to take "SJW studies" classes goes without saying.

I agree that blue color/trade school shouldn't be a dirty term. It should be embraced because most of those jobs will pay more than most jobs requiring a 4 year degree. We also shouldn't make trade unions a dirty word either, bring back the apprentice programs but police the crap put of union leadership to reduce the corruption. Make it illegal for a union to endorse a political candidate or party.

If you are college bound, how about 2-5 years of federal service before school and you get free college, military, peace corp, ameri-corp, forest service, etc. Each year of service gets you one year free at a public university, or each year gets you 2 years at a community college.

In regards to student loan forgiveness, don't make it a blank check. Set up stipulations where it is paid off in a 5 or 10 year period if you meet the criteria, such as working public sector or working in rural area that is in need of people with you education. Set up tax advantages for businesses to pay down student loan debt in a 5-10 year period in with annual installments. Freeing up what people are paying on student loans would be a huge infiltration of money into the economy.

I don't think you can do anything about a $200 text book, that is set by the publisher and laws of supply and demand kick in, it's not cheap to make a book that isn't going to mass produced, like a NY Times Bestseller. Authors of text books need to get paid for their time.

I'm not to concerned about faculty getting paid too much, at least in the Midwest. Where they need to clean house is the administration, many  admin jobs don't require a PhD but PhDs seem to surround themselves with PhDs.

I think the SJW classes varies form school to school, I did the university thing twice, both degrees were 16 years apart. In the 90s everyone at the University of Northern Iowa had to take an ethics class related to their major and environmental science class to graduate. In the 2010s, at Iowa State University, everyone had to take 6 credits from a menu of classes of 3 credit of non western civ and 3 credits of  ethics/diversity class. I didn't find the ethics/diversity class that bad, there was no whitey male sucks/white privilege, just an awareness that in your career you are going to have to work with people that are different that you (ethic, sex, religion, personalities, etc.) and don't be an ahole to them.

You had an unique situation where you could get a job that you could make enough money to pay for school. I remember when I graduated from HS and my plan was to join the Navy and use that to pay for college. Went for my physical and I was rejected due to a heart murmur. I ended up working in a factory as a MIG monkey making $6 an hour in 1992, driving 45 minutes one way to work. I was happy to have a full time job (no benefits) and folks let me live at home, the Midwest was really hit by that recession and unemployment was really high in my part of the tri-state area (IA-MO-IL). The chip and grind crew paid minimum wage of $4.25/hr, so I felt fortunate. Most of the factories/shops in my home area paid min to $5/hr to start at the time, labor market was saturated so they could pay what they wanted. I don't think I could of saved up enough money for a year at a University on that and still commute to work. I did manage to save up enough to pay in cash for a 2 year degree at the local community college, luckily my parents let me live at home rent free. I did go to the University after that on student loans, because I had no money and my parents weren't shitting out gold coins either. When I graduated the mid 90s boom was just ending and jobs were scarce, then the .com bust happened. My first couple years of employment were pretty rough and I had a hard time just paying bills each month on $20k/year (no health insurance), I ended up working at a gas station 2 nights a week and every weekend for a year just to get ahead a bit. If I got sick I would of been screwed. Things got a lot better for me in Dec 2002 when I got hired by Iowa State University.

Now lets look at the millennial, they started going to college/starting careers during the great recession also they were going to school at the time tuition increases were double digits due to reduced funding from states and feds, not a great start, some are still trying to dig themselves out, now we have 9 months of Covid, another hit on that generation. They don't need a blank check, but a plan to forgiveness/payoff would be a good thing for the future economy.

I also agree that the degree inflation needs to stop, not sure how to do that without some serious governmental action on private and public employment.
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MillCreek

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Re: Student Loan Forgiveness
« Reply #12 on: November 18, 2020, 10:34:51 AM »
I would not be in favor of forgiveness, but would be in favor of being able to discharge student loan debt through bankruptcy.  Under current law, you cannot discharge student debt via bankruptcy.
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Ben

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Re: Student Loan Forgiveness
« Reply #13 on: November 18, 2020, 10:38:26 AM »


If you are college bound, how about 2-5 years of federal service before school and you get free college, military, peace corp, ameri-corp, forest service, etc. Each year of service gets you one year free at a public university, or each year gets you 2 years at a community college.

In regards to student loan forgiveness, don't make it a blank check. Set up stipulations where it is paid off in a 5 or 10 year period if you meet the criteria, such as working public sector or working in rural area that is in need of people with you education. Set up tax advantages for businesses to pay down student loan debt in a 5-10 year period in with annual installments. Freeing up what people are paying on student loans would be a huge infiltration of money into the economy.

I don't think you can do anything about a $200 text book, that is set by the publisher and laws of supply and demand kick in, it's not cheap to make a book that isn't going to mass produced, like a NY Times Bestseller. Authors of text books need to get paid for their time.

I'm not to concerned about faculty getting paid too much, at least in the Midwest. Where they need to clean house is the administration, many  admin jobs don't require a PhD but PhDs seem to surround themselves with PhDs.

I agree with most of this. I think we're going to get stuck with some kind of "forgiveness", and it would hurt less for taxpayers, and teach the students some life lessons, if they had to do something worthwhile in exchange for their bailout. I also am in favor of some "public works" trade for tuition for students that want to go to college and need help.

I'm pretty sure most textbooks are electronic now, and often written by professors that teach the discipline . They could self-publish and contribute to their students' education by offering the book for less.

I agree pay does vary by location, but administrators and some useless staff (e.g., diversity administrators) are overpaid everywhere, and many of them are simply not needed.
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Ben

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Re: Student Loan Forgiveness
« Reply #14 on: November 18, 2020, 10:40:37 AM »
I would not be in favor of forgiveness, but would be in favor of being able to discharge student loan debt through bankruptcy.  Under current law, you cannot discharge student debt via bankruptcy.

I might be okay with this if like many other types of bankruptcies, it killed their credit score and ability to get loans, etc. for some years, so that they might get a "pay as you go"  education. Sometimes you need a stick instead of a carrot.
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dogmush

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Re: Student Loan Forgiveness
« Reply #15 on: November 18, 2020, 10:52:53 AM »
[thinks about what I had to give up to get my post 9-11 GI bill, which I haven't been able to use yet]
[thinks about the 14 years I worked 3 jobs and 70-90 hrs a week to save up, pay for wife's degree, and have some retirement savings]
[thinks about the years I spent upside down in ship bilges in 100 degree heat honing skills that let me make a modest income now]

*expletive deleted*ck those kids.  *expletive deleted*ck those colleges.  *expletive deleted*ck those little whiny brats that, at 18 god damn years old, couldn't be bothered to make even the slightest prediction about how much they might make vs. how much this school cost.  Let them live till they're 50 with their useless, enabling, "I want to be my kid's best friend" parents until the parents die and the home is foreclosed on.

This is, literally, a way for the government to use force to steal money from me and give it to people who, statistically, are going to make more money then I do now, and yet are simultaneously to *expletive deleted*ing retarded to make any kind of reasonable financial decision.

If you have a degree that won't get you a job, or does get you a job that doesn't pay enough to pay off that degree in 5-7 years, you are retarded and shouldn't have financed that degree.  Related: don't get an 8 year car loan on a depreciating asset or a 30 year boat loan.

*expletive deleted*ck 'em.  Starve on the street corner, oxygen thieves.

If ANYONE has to come off of money to solve this bullshit manufactured "crisis" it should be the colleges and their endowments.  
« Last Edit: November 18, 2020, 11:23:23 AM by dogmush »

K Frame

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Re: Student Loan Forgiveness
« Reply #16 on: November 18, 2020, 11:02:25 AM »
So, are they going to reimburse those who played Responsible Adult and paid their student loans?

Brad

No, because that just shows how white privileged we are, so we're going to be hit with punitive taxes so that little Johnny Manbun can be free of the $100,000 he spent for a degree in Monglian interpretative dance.
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Angel Eyes

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Re: Student Loan Forgiveness
« Reply #17 on: November 18, 2020, 11:09:05 AM »
How about residential mortgage forgiveness?   Why should those deadbeat college students have all the fun?

 ;)
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K Frame

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Re: Student Loan Forgiveness
« Reply #18 on: November 18, 2020, 11:16:16 AM »
How about residential mortgage forgiveness?   Why should those deadbeat college students have all the fun?

 ;)


Well, housing is a basic human right, just like free child care, free health care, free college, free food, free internet access.

After all, we could afford all of it if we would make one billionaire pay his FAIR SHARE...
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charby

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Re: Student Loan Forgiveness
« Reply #19 on: November 18, 2020, 11:18:07 AM »
Well, housing is a basic human right, just like free child care, free health care, free college, free food, free internet access.

After all, we could afford all of it if we would make one billionaire pay his FAIR SHARE...

Free guns too
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Ron

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Re: Student Loan Forgiveness
« Reply #20 on: November 18, 2020, 11:20:37 AM »
A debt jubilee that banished the international banksters could be fun  =D

Americans love the status quo and their chains.

I doubt anything will change that dramatically.

Whomever is holding the note(s) aren't going to slink away into the night quietly.

They will demand theirs plus the juice.
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Nick1911

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Re: Student Loan Forgiveness
« Reply #21 on: November 18, 2020, 11:22:55 AM »
Free guns too

Eh?  Think the usual line is that guns should be bought back as firearms related violence continues to plague our communities and disproportionately impacts socioeconomically disadvantaged groups and racial minorities.

How about residential mortgage forgiveness?   Why should those deadbeat college students have all the fun?

 ;)


Don't give them ideas.  That would royally screw up the real estate market.

Ron

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Re: Student Loan Forgiveness
« Reply #22 on: November 18, 2020, 11:25:03 AM »
Don't give them ideas.  That would royally screw up the real estate market even more than it is already.

Slight modification.
For the invisible things of him since the creation of the world are clearly seen, being perceived through the things that are made, even his everlasting power and divinity, that they may be without excuse. Because knowing God, they didn’t glorify him as God, and didn’t give thanks, but became vain in their reasoning, and their senseless heart was darkened. Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools.

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Re: Student Loan Forgiveness
« Reply #23 on: November 18, 2020, 11:32:47 AM »
The whole student loan debacle was/is a con.

Many, not all but many, were sold a story that was never going to happen.

They flooded the colleges with people that had no business being in college. They didn't have the background, intellectual firepower or self discipline to succeed.

I agree paying off the con men out of the treasury is a non-starter.

The con men will never be brought to justice, the closest we could hope to get is making them eat the loss.
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BobR

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Re: Student Loan Forgiveness
« Reply #24 on: November 18, 2020, 11:33:25 AM »
How about residential mortgage forgiveness?   Why should those deadbeat college students have all the fun?

 ;)


Hell, I could almost be happy with a mortgage loan interest forgiveness, after all it;s a fair compromise.

bob