Vaccine Worship

[Scott Metro]

Sooooo..some of my neighbors went to get the Covid Vaccine this morning. In my muddled mind, I came up with a few questions for them that I thought needed answers. Sooooo...I asked this: "If protocols, such as wearing masks and social distancing must be maintained even after receiving the "shot", how does one know that the vaccine has worked/is working/or can work"? After some resistant discussion, it was decided that the "shot" was being taken strictly on "FAITH" that it would work. Then I asked,"Isn't that much like religion? Acting on faith is how religions work, no evidence, just faith?
I was not popular today.
Hail St. Fauchi.
 

[WLJ]

Just saw a big banner headline proclaiming Harris getting the, now, life saving perfectly safe vaccine.
Amazing how the views of so many on the vaccine completely flipped after Nov 3rd.

[French G.]

I wish that the anti  vax wingnuts on the left and the Bill Gates is gonna implant the mark of the beast in me wingnuts on the right would unite into a party. Make it easier to know who to not vote for. Twenty two years of military and I am dying at all the people losing their mind about a mandatory vaccination which right now it isn’t.

[fifth_column]

To believe in the efficacy of the vaccine is to have faith that the pharma companies are telling the truth and that the product has been tested and shown to be effective.  It's much like the faith necessary to purchase aspirin or vitamins.  One must believe that the pills in the bottle have the advertised ingredient. When I worked in the healthcare industry I was able to get vaccinated against Hepatitis. I have no way of verifying that the vaccine I received was anything other than a placebo. I haven't gotten Hepatitis, but I don't know if it's because of the vaccine, because I was never exposed, or some other reason altogether. The evidence for (or against) the covid vaccine is out there, one just has to look.  Having a medical degree would probably help as well.

I think the question of whether believing in a product is the same as believing in religion is fascinating though. I don't have an answer, but I really like the question.  

[230RN]

To believe in the efficacy of the vaccine is to have faith that the pharma companies are telling the truth and that the product has been tested and shown to be effective.  It's much like the faith necessary to purchase aspirin or vitamins.  One must believe that the pills in the bottle have the advertised ingredient. When I worked in the healthcare industry I was able to get vaccinated against Hepatitis. I have no way of verifying that the vaccine I received was anything other than a placebo. I haven't gotten Hepatitis, but I don't know if it's because of the vaccine, because I was never exposed, or some other reason altogether. The evidence for (or against) the covid vaccine is out there, one just has to look.  Having a medical degree would probably help as well.

I think the question of whether believing in a product is the same as believing in religion is fascinating though. I don't have an answer, but I really like the question.  

There you go.

But the questions of believing in the vaccine and believing in the religion will both be resolved sooner or later, one way or the other.  

[Nick1911]

There you go.

But the questions of believing in the vaccine and believing in the religion will both be resolved sooner or later, one way or the other.  

In that, I have no faith.

[fifth_column]

There you go.

But the questions of believing in the vaccine and believing in the religion will both be resolved sooner or later, one way or the other.  

Maybe.

[Ron]

Are these vaccines like the polio vaccine where you are pretty much guaranteed to not get polio?

Or is it more like the roll of the dice flu vaccine?

[WLJ]

Are these vaccines like the polio vaccine where you are pretty much guaranteed to not get polio?

Or is it more like the roll of the dice flu vaccine?

Well considering there's already a mutated version of C19 floating around I would say the latter

[dogmush]

Somedays I think people purposefully stay uneducated to better revel in their ignorance.

Scott- the efficacy trials for the BNT162b2 mRNA Covid-19 Vaccine (Pfizer's)  was published and is publicly available.  You can freely download and read it to decide for yourself if the methods and statistical analysis is valid. It's a 13 page pdf. But the BLUF is we know it works because there was a multinational, placebo-controlled, observer-blinded efficacy trial, the results of which are public. No faith is needed.

Ron- the mens vaccine codes for the spike proteins that [all] Corona virus use to penetrate cell walls. So it's much closer to the polio vaccine where you are pretty much guaranteed not to get COVID-19.

WLJ- the mutated strain[ s] identified so far all share the same sphere and protein spike shape as the one that causes COVID-19. So while it seems to be more contagious,  the vaccine looks like it should protect against the current mutated Coronavirus.  I say looks like because there hasn't been a nice, citeable study like with the original,  but the mechanics are there.

[WLJ]

WLJ- the mutated strain identified so far all share the same sphere and protein spike shape as the one that causes COVID-19. So while it seems to be more contagious,  the vaccine looks like it should protect against the current mutated Coronavirus.  I say looks like because there hasn't been a nice, citeable study like with the original,  but the mechanics are there.

Not sure if you meant to strikeout all of that.
Key word in that is should. Until something comes up definitive it's best to treat it as if it doesn't to be on the safe side.

[zahc]

In the semiconductor industry I have worked with some people who came from the biomedical industry. The two forms of manufacturing have a lot in common and use some of the same types of cleanrooms and protocols. However, they were amazed that we were allowed to keep our own personal notes. Apparently where they came from, all notebooks were serialized and registered, and their notes had to be written in indelible pen, dated, and retained as records. Presumably for legal CYA as well as IP/patent CYA.

There's always the possibility of a big enough conspiracy, but for me I think it's most likely that the vaccines are basically legit. It's still possible there to be longer term or rare side effects that didn't show up in the testing, but it seems unlikely to me, plus, by definition I would be unlikely to experience those.

[230RN]

Quote from: 230RN on Today at 10:47:06 AM

There you go.

But the questions of believing in the vaccine and believing in the religion will both be resolved sooner or later, one way or the other.

Maybe.

Note the "big grin" in the original.

...

However, they were amazed that we were allowed to keep our own personal notes. Apparently where they came from, all notebooks were serialized and registered, and their notes had to be written in indelible pen, dated, and retained as records. Presumably for legal CYA as well as IP/patent CYA.
...

I worked for an outfit like that, including the serialization and registration of the bound lab notebooks.  Except we had to use black ball- point pens. And we could put in personal notes and speculations related to the observations --el Presidente didn't want to miss any opportunity for possibly patentable comments. No erasures, must cross out deleted things so they remained legible. Must have had the same lawyers.  His Presidentness was prone to rant a bit if he found someone departing from the rules of Laboratory Note-Taking.

Oh, the other rantable offense was resting liquid containers (coffee, etc.) on the the tops of the printers while waiting for your print job.  (Or any time.)
 

[dogmush]

Not sure if you meant to strikeout all of that.
Key word in that is should. Until something comes up definitive it's best to treat it as if it doesn't to be on the safe side.

I didn't mean to strike it out, thanks.  Changed my formatting.

The spike proteins the vaccine induced antibodies attack are pretty ubiquitous among the Corona viruses.  I agree a certain amount of caution regarding the mutated strains is warranted until we have some real studies, but it's very likely it works on them.

[Jim147]

Saturday's CDC change bumped me up the list but at the same time said there had been no study in the vaccine effectiveness for someone with no immune system.

Illl wait a little while longer. Almost no business and I'm in the middle of nowhere so illl just stay hunkered down.

[Scott Metro]

I'm with you, Jim. Think I'll wait. The silly half of my brain needles me, says, "let's wait and see if the "shot" creates the walking dead"...or something on that order.

[Angel Eyes]

"let's wait and see if the "shot" creates the walking dead"

You're going to fit right in with this bunch.

[TommyGunn]

You're going to fit right in with this bunch.

[Andiron]

The vaccine so safe it's manufacture managed to get blanket "immunity" (see what I did there?) from all lawsuits?  And it's got all of TPTB we normally don't trust insisting that it should be mandatory?  And it's very own PR campaign?

No,  I don't think I'll rush to sign up for that just yet.

As some of you already mentioned,  I got inoculated for all kinds of fun *expletive deleted*it in the military,  this one is my call.

[MechAg94]

I think there will be quite a few people taking the vaccine before I am ever able to take it.  Not worried at this point.