Weather zones and living life.

[230RN]

There was a huge pile-up on I-35W near Ft. Worth today.  Around 100 cars involved and at least 5 deaths.

https://www.foxnews.com/us/fort-worth-texas-vehicle-freeway-crash-fatalities-injuries

Holy crap.  You gotta look at this article for the photos.  They're incredible.  Scary as hell.  Looks like you took a thousand junkyard cars, put 'em in a huge cocktail shaker, shook 'em up, and just dumped them in a big pile on the highway.

I'm amazed there are only 6 dead as of now, 8:45 AM MST.

It's like the coefficient of friction went negative on that road.

Terry

[Ben]

The road "may not have been properly treated by the operator," contributing to the crash, Texas state Sen. Beverly Powell told Fox News.

Somebody's not getting their annual bonus this year.

What do they use down there anyway? I thought I read that it was a "de-icing agent", implying it wasn't salt or sand. Around here they just use sand. I don't know if it's Idaho-wide or if they use other stuff in parts of the state where it really snows.

[Grandpa Shooter]

Somebody's not getting their annual bonus this year.

What do they use down there anyway? I thought I read that it was a "de-icing agent", implying it wasn't salt or sand. Around here they just use sand. I don't know if it's Idaho-wide or if they use other stuff in parts of the state where it really snows.

Here in Ky they spray a brine on the roads in anticipation of bad weather.  It helps keep ice from forming on the road surface.  If it gets bad enough they will go afterwards to put down crystal salt to melt what has fallen while the brine keeps it from freezing to the road.  However as I said above, they also shut down everything they can if the weather is "supposed" to get bad.  One place I tried calling was closed yesterday and again today due to bad weather.  It is in the main part of town that I know has been treated so they are just being extra cautious.

[MechAg94]

I think down here they just put sand on likely areas such as bridges and overpasses.  We rarely have freezes lasting more than a day.

[WLJ]

The biggest problem in Ky is that for 9-10 years we'll get almost nothing but light dustings then wham we get hit. During the lulls the city(s) usually decide they don't need all this expensive equipment.

[Grandpa Shooter]

The biggest problem in Ky is that for 9-10 years we'll get almost nothing but light dustings then wham we get hit. During the lulls the city(s) usually decide they don't need all this expensive equipment.

I moved to Ky 7 years ago and the first winter we were here the state got slammed as WLJ said.  Our pond froze and my horse walked out onto it and fell down.  I had to go pull her off the pond while praying we didn't both fall in.  It has only frozen around the edges since and rarely stays cold enough to build any thick ice.  That first year I was dumbfounded to learn that the small towns don't even own snow plows and just wait for the snow to melt and pray it doesn't freeze.  The road I live on has not been treated at all and it is a county road.  The state road it connects to has, but not ours.  It is currently 25F out so I better go check the pond.

[zxcvbob]

The city salts your drive and walks? Never seen that. Besides your truck, including, the bed, is getting a good salt spray  just driving down the highway

I have done the "fill the bed up with ice and snow" thing before.  It does seem to speed up the rust a little, even if you use clean snow.  But more importantly, it takes up so much space in the bed if you even need to haul anything, and you can't unload it.  Four bags of cement all the way at the back does a better job and you still have almost the whole bed for hauling.  I'm a little worried that I'll have a head-on collision and they'll come flying thru the rear window, but I don't drive that fast in the winter so don't know how much of a risk that really is.

What I'd like is about 300 pounds of rear bumper weights.

[WLJ]

I moved to Ky 7 years ago and the first winter we were here the state got slammed as WLJ said.  Our pond froze and my horse walked out onto it and fell down.  I had to go pull her off the pond while praying we didn't both fall in.  It has only frozen around the edges since and rarely stays cold enough to build any thick ice.  That first year I was dumbfounded to learn that the small towns don't even own snow plows and just wait for the snow to melt and pray it doesn't freeze.  The road I live on has not been treated at all and it is a county road.  The state road it connects to has, but not ours.  It is currently 25F out so I better go check the pond.

Louisville tends to keep equipment on hand. Or at least they do NOW after being read the riot act by UPS, GE, & Ford after a couple of big ones.

[Ben]

  I'm a little worried that I'll have a head-on collision and they'll come flying thru the rear window,

What I'd like is about 300 pounds of rear bumper weights.

When I took one of our mandatory defensive driving courses at work, the instructor said that is exactly what happened to his son (who he admits was likely driving too fast). IIRC, the kid spent a month in intensive care. He was really big on promoting "tie the weight down." :)

[Ben]

The road I live on has not been treated at all and it is a county road. 

I need to get better about knowing when to look for ice. The county roads leading from my place to town are rarely plowed. While snow in the fields was thick, there was only a thin layer of snow on the roads when I drove to town a half hour ago. Man, was it icy. Fun trip.   

I can see why a lot of county roads around here are left as gravel. I have a 1/4 mile entrance road to my house that I keep surfaced with road mix, and that road never ices up.

[WLJ]

Here in Ky they spray a brine on the roads in anticipation of bad weather.  It helps keep ice from forming on the road surface.  If it gets bad enough they will go afterwards to put down crystal salt to melt what has fallen while the brine keeps it from freezing to the road.  However as I said above, they also shut down everything they can if the weather is "supposed" to get bad.  One place I tried calling was closed yesterday and again today due to bad weather.  It is in the main part of town that I know has been treated so they are just being extra cautious.

You can usually tell what roads they've done the brine treatment on. Not sure what everything they put in it but it stays put where they put it down.

[Jim147]

The salted snow thing was a friends dad years ago. It had been snowing off and on for a week and the city keep putting salt down until the one night it dropped about a foot. When they plowed the road it left a nice three foot pile in front of his drive so he backed up the truck and started shoveling it in.

[Larry Ashcraft]

Two wheel drive pickups are a rarity in Colorado.  Mine is a diesel, so 4WD is a must.

[charby]

The city salts your drive and walks? Never seen that. Besides your truck, including, the bed, is getting a good salt spray  just driving down the highway

No, we get enough snow that the furrow from the plow buries half the driveway and sidewalk.

[Grandpa Shooter]

You can usually tell what roads they've done the brine treatment on. Not sure what everything they put in it but it stays put where they put it down.

Good pic, can I steal it to show friends what I'm talking about?

[WLJ]

Good pic, can I steal it to show friends what I'm talking about?

From off wave3's website https://www.wave3.com/2021/02/12/behind-forecast-how-road-salt-actually-works/

[zxcvbob]

Two wheel drive pickups are a rarity in Colorado.  Mine is a diesel, so 4WD is a must.

My last two pickups were 2WD, that's how I figured out the right tires and ballast to survive the winters.  Truck rusted totally out 2 years ago and I had to junk it (it only had 80000 miles and the engine ran so smooth and quiet you could barely tell it was running  )  I'm looking for a 4WD to replace it, but trucks don't last long enough up here to buy a new one; I want a standard cab with a long box, gasoline V8 (small V8 is okay), and little-or-no rust.  I've been looking for a year and a half -- trucks like that are rare.  Everybody wants an extended cab and short box.

[230RN]

Two wheel drive pickups are a rarity in Colorado.  Mine is a diesel, so 4WD is a must.

I'm not clear on that relationship.  Is that strictly a marketing effect?  Or due to some kind of torque effect?   Pardon my ignorance.

From off wave3's website https://www.wave3.com/2021/02/12/behind-forecast-how-road-salt-actually-works/

Exellent link. Basically, any time you dissolve something in water it drops the freezing point and raises the boiling point.

And there's a specific numerical relationship, as noted in the article.

I seem to recall household canning is done by sitting the canning jars in salted boiling water, but I could be wrong on that.

In any case, salty water boils hotter and freezes colder.

Terry

[230RN]

The horse thing above reminded me that twice in the last freezes, a Fire Department had to be called to rescue people's dogs from falling through the ice.  If it happens, a ladder slid out on the ice to the hole helps to distribute the weight of the rescuer.

And if the 50 lb dog went through, what'll happen to the 200 lb you?

(And from personal scary experience, most ponds have thick icky bottoms which make it very difficult to get out of.  This is true regardless of the weather.)

Terry 

[JonnyB]

I'm not clear on that relationship.  Is that strictly a marketing effect?  Or due to some kind of torque effect?   Pardon my ignorance.

[Jon snipped some of the reply]

Terry

I have a Chevy Diesel pickup. With the 6.6 litre engine and Allison automatic transmission, the front axle is really heavy. In 2WD, it’s hopeless in slippery conditions. That’s my guess at what was meant.

JB

[Larry Ashcraft]

I have a Chevy Diesel pickup. With the 6.6 litre engine and Allison automatic transmission, the front axle is really heavy. In 2WD, it’s hopeless in slippery conditions. That’s my guess at what was meant.

JB

Yes, same here.  The DuraMax and Allison weigh at least a ton, probably more.  Even trying to back up a slight incline with 1" of snow on the ground, you need 4WD.  My last pickup was a 1992 F150 shortbed, standard cab, with a 351 and automatic.  I rarely used 4WD, unless I was off road or in deep snow.

[RoadKingLarry]

I'm not clear on that relationship.  Is that strictly a marketing effect?  Or due to some kind of torque effect?   Pardon my ignorance.

Exellent link. Basically, any time you dissolve something in water it drops the freezing point and raises the boiling point.

And there's a specific numerical relationship, as noted in the article.

I seem to recall household canning is done by sitting the canning jars in salted boiling water, but I could be wrong on that.

In any case, salty water boils hotter and freezes colder.

Terry

Hmmm...
I may have to try a little cold weather chemistry experiment.
Get some water down to just above freezing and then add some potassium bromide.

[sumpnz]

I seem to recall household canning is done by sitting the canning jars in salted boiling water, but I could be wrong on that.

Terry

Not really.  For high acid foods you can water bath can, and adding salt isn’t necessary, or especially consequential.  For low acid foods you have to pressure can.  The higher pressure increases the boiling point of water to about 250F, which with a 100 minutes processing time, is sufficient to kill clostridium botulinum through the entire contents of the jar.