Author Topic: Guess what's racist/white supremacy now  (Read 117848 times)

Boomhauer

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Re: Guess what's racist/white supremacy now
« Reply #600 on: April 23, 2023, 10:53:55 AM »
Are our roads particularly unsafe?  Seems that when I have traveled internationally I saw a lot of what I took to be much more dangerous roads in countries with much lower deaths per population or deaths per vehicle.

What should be changed about our roads to improve safety?  Obviously reducing speed would increase survivability, but given the size of our nation and the fact that we like to spread out, I don’t think people would like to double their commutes and travel time.

To steel man the opposition, it would be easy to believe that older and less well developed infrastructure is more common in poor areas. Since (some) minorities are heavily represented in poor areas, if it is true that older and less safe road design is the cause of increased fatalities, perhaps that is the connection they are trying to make.

I’ll tell you what makes our roads unsafe. The *expletive deleted*ing shitheads and illegals running around on suspended licenses, DUI, and no insurance causing all the damn accidents and then the cops cut them loose with a ticket when they get caught or cause accidents.

bUt tHaTs rAyCiSt
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WLJ

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Re: Guess what's racist/white supremacy now
« Reply #601 on: April 26, 2023, 01:08:02 PM »
Can't make this stuff up

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Her argument is that when slavery was abolished and African Americans started gaining rights, white supremacists sought to maintain old inequalities by demonizing black bodies and glamorizing thinness.

'This is really about maintaining systems of white supremacy and patriarchy,' she said on the show.

Now wanting to be THIN is 'white supremacy': NPR guest and author of 'Fat Talk' claims people's desire to be slim stems from end of slavery, as Americans sought other ways to 'demonize black and brown bodies'
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-12016149/NPRs-Fresh-Air-says-peoples-desire-stems-end-slavery.html
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Ben

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Re: Guess what's racist/white supremacy now
« Reply #602 on: April 26, 2023, 01:18:43 PM »
Can't make this stuff up

Now wanting to be THIN is 'white supremacy': NPR guest and author of 'Fat Talk' claims people's desire to be slim stems from end of slavery, as Americans sought other ways to 'demonize black and brown bodies'
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-12016149/NPRs-Fresh-Air-says-peoples-desire-stems-end-slavery.html

This crap is almost like the tranny crap. They started with "It's ok to be fat", and now it seems they want to make being fat mandatory.
"I'm a foolish old man that has been drawn into a wild goose chase by a harpy in trousers and a nincompoop."

Pb

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Re: Guess what's racist/white supremacy now
« Reply #603 on: April 26, 2023, 01:24:32 PM »
now it seems they want to make being fat mandatory.

Have you been to walmart?  I think it already is mandatory.

WLJ

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Re: Guess what's racist/white supremacy now
« Reply #604 on: May 08, 2023, 11:36:22 AM »
Crime stats

https://twitter.com/atrupar/status/1654867371511742469

Quote
    AOC accuses @elonmusk of racism for responding to a tweet containing FBI statistics. Statistics are racist now. Asking questions is now apparently "crude racism."

    Don't ask questions, just consume narrative and get excited for next narrative. pic.twitter.com/UUn5UYlsS6

    — Ian Miles Cheong (@stillgray) May 7, 2023

AOC accusing Elon Musk of RACISM for retweeting FBI violent crime stats goes SO wrong
https://twitchy.com/samj-3930/2023/05/08/aoc-accusing-elon-musk-of-racism-for-retweeting-fbi-violent-crime-stats-goes-so-wrong/
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zahc

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Re: Guess what's racist/white supremacy now
« Reply #605 on: May 08, 2023, 01:26:14 PM »
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Are our roads particularly unsafe?

Yes, our roads are particularly unsafe.

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Seems that when I have traveled internationally I saw a lot of what I took to be much more dangerous roads in countries with much lower deaths per population or deaths per vehicle.

Isn't this a contradiction? The roads are safer by all metrics, but you "took them as more dangerous"? What does that mean except maybe you are a poor judge of what makes roads dangerous (most people are)?

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What should be changed about our roads to improve safety?
 

Simply implement current best practices in road design and stop building to 1960s standards in 2023.

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Obviously reducing speed would increase survivability, but given the size of our nation and the fact that we like to spread out, I don’t think people would like to double their commutes and travel time.

There is a lot, lot more than speed. It's possible to have roads that are both slow AND dangerous, which is often what we currently have. But assume for a moment that we can make our roads safer by reducing speeds (it's not that simple). Why not do that?

Are the tens of thousands of deaths and tens of thousands more maimings that happen on our road routinely, not to mention the millions of dollars in ruined hardware, is worth it if you get there slightly faster (if you survive that is)?

This attitude fits the behavior pattern we see daily on the road, where it's OK to violently threaten others with death or mutilation, not for money or power, but usually simply to avoid having to wait a few seconds. Just stand on my neighborhood road any given morning and watch school kids trying to get to school.

Some people say that guns turn people violent and I think it's wrong and baseless. If they said it about cars, I would believe it and you could probably prove it.

In reality most road safety improvements have nominal impact on travel times or even improve travel times, so this is a strawman anyway.

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To steel man the opposition, it would be easy to believe that older and less well developed infrastructure is more common in poor areas. Since (some) minorities are heavily represented in poor areas, if it is true that older and less safe road design is the cause of increased fatalities, perhaps that is the connection they are trying to make.

The racist roads argument is usually more straightforward... during postwar misguided urban renewal frenzies, the road-building grift decided we needed to build freeways everywhere until our whole environment looked like roads (they continued this philosophy more or less in many places). When they stole the land needed to build these roads, guess where they stole ot from...the rich white areas or the poor black ones? No need to guess, and this isn't a conspiracy or a theoretical. Over a million people had their homes bulldozed to make way for roads, most of them unneeded and just make traffic worse anyway. Unlike a lot of bogus claims of racism the roads one stands as pretty legitimate. It's important to realize that a version of this happened in every country and the key difference being who got bulldozed, and also which countries realized it was a dumb idea and stopped, reversed course, or went broke, and which one(s) decided to keep doubling down.
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Ben

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Re: Guess what's racist/white supremacy now
« Reply #606 on: May 08, 2023, 01:28:24 PM »
Anyone who thinks European roads are safe has never driven in Northern Italy.  =D
"I'm a foolish old man that has been drawn into a wild goose chase by a harpy in trousers and a nincompoop."

zahc

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Re: Guess what's racist/white supremacy now
« Reply #607 on: May 08, 2023, 01:36:14 PM »
Anyone who thinks European roads are safe has never driven in Northern Italy.  =D

Italy
5.2 deaths per 100,000 people
6.3 deaths per 100,000 motor vehicles
3,333 deaths per million km.

United States
12.9 deaths per 100,000 people
16.1 deaths per 100,000 vehicles
45,000 deaths per million km.

What's that, about 13 times more dead people per km in the US than in Italy.

Given these figures, do you think the US (Canada is just as bad) would think about maybe learning something from them and doing something smarter? Probably not. We haven't even figured out that dedicated turn signals are a good idea.

US road design follows a pattern that is becoming familiar in post-peak, declining-period of the republic:

1. Invent something or steal and vastly improve it (i.e. automobile, air travel, the transistor...)

2. Achieve a position of world leadership and technological dominance

3. Give away all of it China, allow MBAs to value - engineer it to irrelevance, or allow the industrial - government complex to ossify it into an overlapping tapestry of grift -- sort of an American version of the keiretsu system, but with negative feedback instead of positive

4. When rest of the world moves on and continues to innovate and execute, refuse to steal back their ideas purely to avoid admitting failure; simultaneously torture the facts to try to paper over the gaping and growing holes.



« Last Edit: May 08, 2023, 01:50:32 PM by zahc »
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WLJ

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Re: Guess what's racist/white supremacy now
« Reply #608 on: May 08, 2023, 01:38:26 PM »
Italy
5.2 deaths per 100,000 people
6.3 deaths per 100,000 motor vehicles
3,333 deaths per million km.

United States
12.9 deaths per 100,000 people
16.1 deaths per 100,000 vehicles
45,000 deaths per million km.

What's that, about 13 times more dead people per km in the US than in Italy.

I blame the NRA
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cordex

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Re: Guess what's racist/white supremacy now
« Reply #609 on: May 08, 2023, 01:44:26 PM »
Isn't this a contradiction? The roads are safer by all metrics, but you "took them as more dangerous"? What does that mean except maybe you are a poor judge of what makes roads dangerous (most people are)?
Sure, that could be.  Or it could be that we have a lot of really sucky drivers.  Or the low-quality roads in other countries force people to drive more slowly which does save lives.  Could be a lot of things.
 
But assume for a moment that we can make our roads safer by reducing speeds (it's not that simple). Why not do that?
Because the US is big.  I understand that some people really love the idea of forcing everyone into very small urban areas for maximum efficiency but the ability to more quickly cover longer distances allows people to live in a larger area and enjoy more of the country.

In reality most road safety improvements have nominal impact on travel times or even improve travel times, so this is a strawman anyway.
Not trying to make a strawman argument.  With the exception of mixing non-motorized and motorized traffic and the possible exception of edge cases (heh) like mountain switchbacks, speed is often the biggest determinant of the severity of an accident.

zahc

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Re: Guess what's racist/white supremacy now
« Reply #610 on: May 08, 2023, 02:07:50 PM »
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Because the US is big

Sigh not this again.

The vast majority of car trips are only a few miles. The supposed vast distances are therefore mostly irrelevant to the statistics or even contradictory...a supposedly vast and sparse country should result in fewer deaths per km, not vastly more. How are these Americans finding 13 times more people per km in their supposedly sparsely populated mythical land?

Most of the deaths aren't coming from the freeways. US freeway design is pretty good, deaths per mile on our freeways is moderate and US sort of set the standard for freeway design. On top of that US freeway speed limits are not typically higher and many countries have equal or higher speed limits to the US (the Autobahn being a famous example but 130kph/80mph has been normal on global freeways for a long time even when US freeways were more often 70 or 75). Speed is only a small part of the equation. Most of the people dying in the US are not dying on freeways but on other roads at moderate speeds with egregiously bad designs. This comes from failure to follow the pareto principle and common sense, which would suggest figuring out where people are dying and fixing those problems. But nobody in the US is doing that because there is no transportation engineering happening in the US, basically. Just a highly tuned system for siphoning public money with roads as a byproduct/excuse. People will sit back and debate reducing a speed limit from 35mph to 30mph. It won't make a big difference when Becky plows over a kid she didn't even see. A tragic accident, just another isolated incident, if only there were something we could do.
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Ben

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Re: Guess what's racist/white supremacy now
« Reply #611 on: May 08, 2023, 02:22:50 PM »
Italy
5.2 deaths per 100,000 people
6.3 deaths per 100,000 motor vehicles
3,333 deaths per million km.

United States
12.9 deaths per 100,000 people
16.1 deaths per 100,000 vehicles
45,000 deaths per million km.

What's that, about 13 times more dead people per km in the US than in Italy.

So you've never driven in Italy.  =)

I've driven in Germany, Austria, Yugoslavia, and Italy. Italy was by far the worst. I had to run my Cousin's Golf off the road and up a hill so we wouldn't be killed by a truck. Many more close calls that I was told was, "just how it is here". Those people are nuts.
"I'm a foolish old man that has been drawn into a wild goose chase by a harpy in trousers and a nincompoop."

RoadKingLarry

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Re: Guess what's racist/white supremacy now
« Reply #612 on: May 08, 2023, 02:58:08 PM »
Sigh not this again.

The vast majority of car trips are only a few miles. The supposed vast distances are therefore mostly irrelevant to the statistics or even contradictory...a supposedly vast and sparse country should result in fewer deaths per km, not vastly more. How are these Americans finding 13 times more people per km in their supposedly sparsely populated mythical land?

Most of the deaths aren't coming from the freeways. US freeway design is pretty good, deaths per mile on our freeways is moderate and US sort of set the standard for freeway design. On top of that US freeway speed limits are not typically higher and many countries have equal or higher speed limits to the US (the Autobahn being a famous example but 130kph/80mph has been normal on global freeways for a long time even when US freeways were more often 70 or 75). Speed is only a small part of the equation. Most of the people dying in the US are not dying on freeways but on other roads at moderate speeds with egregiously bad designs. This comes from failure to follow the pareto principle and common sense, which would suggest figuring out where people are dying and fixing those problems. But nobody in the US is doing that because there is no transportation engineering happening in the US, basically. Just a highly tuned system for siphoning public money with roads as a byproduct/excuse. People will sit back and debate reducing a speed limit from 35mph to 30mph. It won't make a big difference when Becky plows over a kid she didn't even see. A tragic accident, just another isolated incident, if only there were something we could do.

It's far less about the design of the infrastructure than it is about the training, skills and mindset of the people that are using it.
Distracted driving, chemically impaired and fatigued driving, excessive speed for conditions including road design and traffic density and a general lack of driving skills coupled with a lack of give a damn are IMNHO are the biggest contributors to our high rate of death and injury on the roads.
If ye love wealth better than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, go home from us in peace. We ask not your counsels or your arms. Crouch down and lick the hands which feed you. May your chains set lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen.

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zahc

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Re: Guess what's racist/white supremacy now
« Reply #613 on: May 08, 2023, 03:08:00 PM »
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Distracted driving
Definitely a danger in any country. Do you think this is worse in the US? Why? What could we do to reduce it?

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Chemically impaired and fatigued driving
Definitely factors in any country. Do you think it's worse in the US? Why? As you know, US has quite strict laws on alcohol impaired driving already.

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Excessive speed for conditions including road design


Yes, you got to road design, but it should have been first, because it is the common factor to all the others. You found the real reason for the differences:road design. You can't change human nature, but you can design to it.
Or you can not, and just let the bloodbath continue and blame the drivers as if it saves anyone.
Maybe a rare occurence, but then you only have to get murdered once to ruin your whole day.
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RoadKingLarry

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Re: Guess what's racist/white supremacy now
« Reply #614 on: May 08, 2023, 03:23:46 PM »
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just let the bloodbath continue and blame the drivers as if it saves anyone.

Sure, let's just take personal responsibility completely out of the equation. :facepalm:

Back to road design, sure our roads aren't perfect, they never will be but if 16 year old Joe Dumbass is breaking 100 Mph on a state highway that is perfectly safe at 65 Mph do you blame poor road design or Joe Dumbass?

Our required driver training is abysmally lacking. As are the repercussions for repeat offenders of both impaired driving and just plain old careless/reckless driving.
Hold offenders accountable for dangerous acts to the point that A: It hurts them financially and B: Is a deterrent to others.

How often do we see people getting busted for their 7th, 8th, 9th DUI? If we shut them down HARD on the 2nd one might slow them down. Take away their vehicle, make it a felony for them to operate any vehicle for an extended period of time, sober or not.
Same for reckless and dangerous driving. 2nd time you get caught engaging in monumental stupidity behind the wheel on public streets you lose your driving privileges for an extended period of time and your vehicle is seized, not impounded.

If ye love wealth better than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, go home from us in peace. We ask not your counsels or your arms. Crouch down and lick the hands which feed you. May your chains set lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen.

Samuel Adams

zahc

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Re: Guess what's racist/white supremacy now
« Reply #615 on: May 08, 2023, 03:42:39 PM »
Sure, let's just take personal responsibility completely out of the equation. :facepalm:

Please elaborate what you mean by personal responsibility. The only angle I can see on this axis is to enforce traffic violations more harshly. Basically charge people with manslaughter and murder more often. Maybe this would help a little bit, I'm not sure. Improving road design is already proven to help. Why one or the other? Yhe number of deaths based on intersection parameters is already known basically. Why not do both?

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Back to road design, sure our roads aren't perfect, they never will be

Yes but they can be better. It's possible for things to be better or worse, you know. And it's usually easier to do things poorly or make them worse than to do them well or make them better.

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If 16 year old Joe Dumbass is breaking 100 Mph on a state highway that is perfectly safe at 65 Mph do you blame poor road design or Joe Dumbass?

Joe dumass of course, but blaming Joe doesn't save anyone. The best that can be done is removing Joe from the road preemptively or mitigating the damage Joe can do. I still don't understand why you wouldn't also make better roads, or why the presence of Joes is a demotivator to improving the roads rather than being neutral or a motivator.


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B: Is a deterrent to others.
Citation needed. I think people are pretty stupid and aren't thinking about speeding fines or legal penalties because they aren't planning to get in an accident and they think they are better drivers than everyone else, etc. Etc. I would want to see data that higher penalties can really overcome human nature. And even if they can, good road design that accommodates human nature is still a smarter solution.

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how often do we see people getting busted for their 7th, 8th, 9th DUI? If we shut them down HARD on the 2nd one might slow them down. Take away their vehicle, make it a felony for them to operate any vehicle for an extended period of time, sober or not.
Same for reckless and dangerous driving. 2nd time you get caught engaging in monumental stupidity behind the wheel on public streets you lose your driving privileges for an extended period of time and your vehicle is seized, not impounded.

I would get behind all of these, except why the second offense? Why should one time be ok...my forklift driver got his cert revoked after only one failed drug test. Why do forklift drivers need to be regularly drug tested, recertified every two years, and zero tolerance, but we give drivers a pass? So yeah, crank down those penalties and requirements. Maybe a small subset of crashes can be reduced. But If the roads are still designed to crash cars into each other systematically, why not fix that too?
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RoadKingLarry

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Re: Guess what's racist/white supremacy now
« Reply #616 on: May 08, 2023, 04:08:18 PM »
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But If the roads are still designed to crash cars into each other systematically, why not fix that too?

In the first place your premise is flawed. Our roads are NOT designed to crash cars into each other systematically. Of course they are far from perfect and ins some cases pretty FUBAR and I am not saying we shouldn't fix problems. I fully support improvement but you cannot make anything, roads included, idiot/ahole proof. Every time you try they just come up with a "better" idiot.

By personal responsibility, yes I mean drop the big hammer on people that through acts of negligence, DWI/DUI or carelessness cause death and/or serious injury. Wipe out a family of four in an "accident" and if you weren't intoxicated you'll probably walk. A good friend of mine has been in a wheelchair since the night of her senior prom back in the '70s because of a repeat offender drunk driver. The driver has had several additional DUIs but is still a free woman.

Another friend of mine was killed when a county dump truck ran over him as he was turning into his driveway on his motorcycle as his wife and kids watched.  Driver was on his cell phone. Judge wouldn't even suspend his license for 30 days because he didn't want to burden his ability to make a living.

As to why the 2nd offense? Barring the DUI driver causing death/injury/property damage then a severe but not life long insurmountable punishment for a 1st offense.  I'm willing to give most people a 2nd chance if they didn't completely screw the pooch the 1st time around, some people are capable of learning.

As to severe punishment being a deterrent... There are any number of things I refrain from doing  in large part because of the penalty for getting caught far exceeds the benefit of the act. Not everyone has that same mindset.

Another option is to mandate governors on vehicles that prevent people from exceeding the posted speed limit. Nobody needs a car capable of exceeding the highest posted speed limit in their state.

If ye love wealth better than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, go home from us in peace. We ask not your counsels or your arms. Crouch down and lick the hands which feed you. May your chains set lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen.

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MechAg94

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Re: Guess what's racist/white supremacy now
« Reply #617 on: May 08, 2023, 04:13:50 PM »
Fatigue could be higher in the US simply because we have a big country (geographically) along with large cities (by square mile). 

It would be helpful if we had statistics on the causes of the accidents cross referenced with things like speed limit.  I was wondering if road construction and other things like that have an effect, but I don't know. 

On road design, if someone is exceeding the speed limit by a great amount, how would road design help?  Are you designing the road for the much higher speed limit? 

Did road deaths fall off when a lot of people were working from home in 2020/2021?
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JTHunter

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Re: Guess what's racist/white supremacy now
« Reply #618 on: May 08, 2023, 04:30:45 PM »
Italy
5.2 deaths per 100,000 people
6.3 deaths per 100,000 motor vehicles
3,333 deaths per million km.

United States
12.9 deaths per 100,000 people
16.1 deaths per 100,000 vehicles
45,000 deaths per million km.

And where did you get those numbers?  ;/
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cordex

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Re: Guess what's racist/white supremacy now
« Reply #619 on: May 08, 2023, 04:59:38 PM »
And where did you get those numbers?  ;/
I was going to say that zahc's numbers are correct but I hadn't looked at them carefully.  I'm not sure how he is getting to the "deaths per million km". Comparing deaths per mile driven (probably the most meaningful figure from a safety perspective), the US rates are around 8 deaths per billion vehicle-kilometers.  Italy doesn't produce that figure, but some numbers for comparison:
Norway is about 2
The UK about 3
Germany about 4
Japan about 5
New Zealand about 7
Korea about 9
Czech republic about 10

https://www.itf-oecd.org/sites/default/files/docs/irtad-road-safety-annual-report-2022.pdf

It is my observation that zahc tends to very confidently believe that most complicated things are in fact extremely simple, that there is a singular root cause of most major issues that could be easily corrected if someone like him were in charge, and is much more comfortable than I am with the idea of forcing people to live lifestyles he approves of.

RoadKingLarry

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Re: Guess what's racist/white supremacy now
« Reply #620 on: May 08, 2023, 05:22:12 PM »
Well, it's not like we don't all know who the resident statists are.
 :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:
If ye love wealth better than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, go home from us in peace. We ask not your counsels or your arms. Crouch down and lick the hands which feed you. May your chains set lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen.

Samuel Adams

Hawkmoon

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Re: Guess what's racist/white supremacy now
« Reply #621 on: May 08, 2023, 07:31:46 PM »

Simply implement current best practices in road design and stop building to 1960s standards in 2023.


How about 1930s standards?

When I was growing up, traffic circles were found everywhere. And they were dangerous, so newer roads and highways eliminated traffic circles.

And now my state's department of transportation is bringing them back. They recently installed on on the road I take to the shooting range.
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WLJ

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Re: Guess what's racist/white supremacy now
« Reply #623 on: May 08, 2023, 08:56:56 PM »
Frankenstein among other "horror" works

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As part of the African American Studies class, titled "Black Horror, White Terror," students are instructed to analyze horror books and movies through the lens of "racial identity and oppression" using materials about "the power and horror of whiteness," "black feminism" and "queering personhood," according to a fall 2022 syllabus obtained by The College Fix.

"We will also consider the relationship between horror and Black literary modes and traditions focusing on key moments that depict fears of Blackness and/or the terror associated with being Black in America," the syllabus reads. "This course will study the works of Black authors and producers as a way to explore racial identity and oppression."

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One of the academic articles titled, "Frankenstein's Monster and Images of Race in Nineteenth-Century Britain," offers a "racial reading" of Frankenstein through "the Marxist and the feminist location of the novel in the social and psychological context of the times" with the thesis that "Shelley's portrayal of her monster drew upon … contemporary attitudes towards non-whites."

University of Florida offers class examining 'white terror' in Frankenstein, other classic texts
https://www.foxnews.com/media/university-florida-offers-class-examining-white-terror-frankenstein-other-classic-texts
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Perd Hapley

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Re: Guess what's racist/white supremacy now
« Reply #624 on: May 08, 2023, 09:20:58 PM »
Sigh not this again.

The vast majority of car trips are only a few miles. The supposed vast distances are therefore mostly irrelevant to the statistics or even contradictory...a supposedly vast and sparse country should result in fewer deaths per km, not vastly more. How are these Americans finding 13 times more people per km in their supposedly sparsely populated mythical land?

Most of the deaths aren't coming from the freeways. US freeway design is pretty good, deaths per mile on our freeways is moderate and US sort of set the standard for freeway design. On top of that US freeway speed limits are not typically higher and many countries have equal or higher speed limits to the US (the Autobahn being a famous example but 130kph/80mph has been normal on global freeways for a long time even when US freeways were more often 70 or 75). Speed is only a small part of the equation. Most of the people dying in the US are not dying on freeways but on other roads at moderate speeds with egregiously bad designs. This comes from failure to follow the pareto principle and common sense, which would suggest figuring out where people are dying and fixing those problems. But nobody in the US is doing that because there is no transportation engineering happening in the US, basically. Just a highly tuned system for siphoning public money with roads as a byproduct/excuse. People will sit back and debate reducing a speed limit from 35mph to 30mph. It won't make a big difference when Becky plows over a kid she didn't even see. A tragic accident, just another isolated incident, if only there were something we could do.

I think the vastness argument has a lot to do with the reality that so many Americans rely on automobiles for nearly all our travel, instead of mass transit, or walking. We get a lot of opportunities to be in car accidents, whether our fault, or another's.
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