Amazon Devices Will Share Your Bandwidth With Neighbors

[Ben]

I've thought about getting Amazon / Google devices, but never have. This would be an anti-selling point:

https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2021/05/amazon-devices-will-soon-automatically-share-your-internet-with-neighbors/

I get what they're trying to do, but according to the article, it is an "opt-out" thing versus an "opt-in". I actually do have a Ring alarm system (which will be part of Sidewalk) that I haven't gotten around to setting up yet, but something like security hardware seems kind of dumb to include in this regardless of whether you want to opt-in or not. Not to mention the whole "it takes a village" vibe of this program.

Amazon apparently has detailed reports on their security precautions for this, but big tech doesn't really have a stellar record in this regard, from backdoors they didn't catch, to the companies themselves (looking at you gazoogle) using the "secure service" to collect data for their own ends.

[Hawkmoon]

I'm pretty certain  that my cable Internet provider does the same thing with customers' WiFi. I'm not sure if it's opt-in or opt-out -- where I live I'm pretty certain that the signal from my modem won't reach any street, so the only thing I have to worry about is some bandwidth thief camping out under a front window of my house.

Here's there web page describing the "feature": https://www.optimum.net/internet/hotspots/

They claim over 2 million free WiFi access points. The first thing I noticed is that they rather (to me) conspicuously didn't say "public" -- they just say "free." Their FAQ isn't any more forthcoming about exactly who hosts these free connections: https://www.optimum.net/pages/internet/hotspots/faq.html

[ConstitutionCowboy]

Spynet. Just what a paranoid government must have.

Anyone not "in the system" will be the first targeted. If they can't keep an eye on you, you are a risk to them.

The corrupt are out there, seeking and gathering power, and there are far too many in this country who are oblivious, naive, and for sale. Panem et circenses under the big tent - eh - the big net.

Woody

[Bogie]

My vision?
 
Everyone in my neighborhood with an outside security camera linked, So that the next time some ahole carjacks one of the special little woke folk, we can figure out who it is, and where they are going...
 
STL has some traffic cameras. And they've gotten pretty good at recovering stolen cars. After they stop on their own. They don't pull them over. That's too dangerous. To the cops.

[K Frame]

I have to say that I've looked at all of this home automation, the Internet of Things, with a lot of skepticism. Just too many opportunities for breaches, in my opinion.

The only thing I have considered getting is a wifi enabled thermostat that I can run with an app, not through one of the hubs, and to be honest, I'm not even sure about those. 

[Ben]

The only thing I have considered getting is a wifi enabled thermostat that I can run with an app, not through one of the hubs, and to be honest, I'm not even sure about those.

I do have one of those, a Honeywell, and it has come in quite handy. Like my TV and Roku, I keep it isolated on my non-broadcast guest network.

I don't know how secure guest networks are these days, but my closest neighbors and public roads are well out of wi-fi range, so that probably helps security a bit. I'm a bit less paranoid about network security where I live now, versus when I lived in my condo where I could see mine and like twenty other networks in my wi-fi range.

[K Frame]

I never thought of throwing it over to a guest network. I like that option. I think I have that capability on my Fios Router.

I also got an offer from my power company a few days ago for savings on enabled thermostats. Most need a common (C wire), but I have a heat pump system so I should have a C... hopefully. If I don't, not sure what I'll do.

This is the one I'm looking at. Has good reviews.

https://www.poweredbyefi.org/dominionenergy/honeywell-wi-fi-focuspro-2.html

[Jim147]

KCP&L put a bunch of those thermostats in the KC area years ago. Drove some A/C techs crazy for a while and pissed some customers off. On hot afternoons the power company would just start randomly turning customers A/C off.

I'm an A/C guy and I set my temp and leave it alone. It takes a lot of energy to recover in the hot humid summer here.

[WLJ]

KCP&L put a bunch of those thermostats in the KC area years ago. Drove some A/C techs crazy for a while and pissed some customers off. On hot afternoons the power company would just start randomly turning customers A/C off.

I'm an A/C guy and I set my temp and leave it alone. It takes a lot of energy to recover in the hot humid summer here.

Unless KCp&L was doing something funny with the ones they provided the owner is the only one with access to off the shelf models.

Picked up a ~$200 Honeywell about three years ago for $80. Open box special + 20% off coupon I got off Newegg I suspect was returned because the buyer didn't know how to wire it up. Probably didn't have the C wire or something similar.

[Nick1911]

Unless KCp&L was doing something funny with the ones they provided the owner is the only one with access to off the shelf models.

They were (and are) in fact doing something funny.  The power company could remotely instruct the thermostat to not run the A/C system even if it was in cooling mode and above setpoint.  They had rules for how long they could do this for.  The idea is that the power company could shed load without having to totally disconnect folks.  I don't actually know how they communicate with the T-stat.  It wasn't using the customers internet connection.  Built in cell modem?  Unsure.

I had one in my last house, which did that twice to my knowledge.  The first time it was fine, and I let it ride.  The second time was a very hot summer afternoon, and my house was already a good bit above setpoint.  Nope - I just wire nutted R and Y together for that afternoon.

[Ben]

KCP&L put a bunch of those thermostats in the KC area years ago. Drove some A/C techs crazy for a while and pissed some customers off. On hot afternoons the power company would just start randomly turning customers A/C off.

Mine is not tied to the power company.  I think my power company has that option, but I choose not to use it. Honeywell does have a really nice "monthly report" that they email you so that you can track your monthly usage and compare it to other months and previous years.

I like to use it in conjunction with my power company's reports that track hourly usage and hourly outside temps. It lets me see where my system is working hard (below freezing temps and heat pump) and where it's efficiently cruising (high temps and heat pump).

[WLJ]

They were (and are) in fact doing something funny.  The power company could remotely instruct the thermostat to not run the A/C system even if it was in cooling mode and above setpoint.  They had rules for how long they could do this for.  The idea is that the power company could shed load without having to totally disconnect folks.  I don't actually know how they communicate with the T-stat.  It wasn't using the customers internet connection.  Built in cell modem?  Unsure.

I had one in my last house, which did that twice to my knowledge.  The first time it was fine, and I let it ride.  The second time was a very hot summer afternoon, and my house was already a good bit above setpoint.  Nope - I just wire nutted R and Y together for that afternoon.

 The ones we had here had nothing to do with the thermostat but were boxes wired directly into the outside AC compressor. Can't remember what they called them but LG&E (Louisville Gas & Elec) tried those things here and my wife told them to install it on ours. They would credit you $10 on your bill per compressor and since the house had two we got $20 knocked off our bill every month. They told people you would never notice the difference which turned out to be total complete BS. After having the house get uncomfortably hot far too many times I went outside side and cut the darn things off myself and called them to come pick them up. They never did. Not sure how those boxes were communicating with LG&E

[K Frame]

"They were (and are) in fact doing something funny.  The power company could remotely instruct the thermostat to not run the A/C system even if it was in cooling mode and above setpoint.  They had rules for how long they could do this for."

Dominion Power (my provider) has a program for that. For a yearly rebate ($100 or so) they install a switch outside of your home that allows them shut off your system to do load balancing. I believe they can only shut it down for an hour at a time.

I never signed up for the program because I didn't want my heat turned off in the winter because recovering temps with a heat pump is a lot more power hungry because it kicks on the auxillary heat coils which is pure electric draw.

In the summer I normally turn the system off during the day anyway and kick it on when I get home. Doing it that way is a much better way of dealing with the humidity load in the house.

[K Frame]

Just looked an Dominion still does the "smart cooling" portion of the energy balancing, but obviously that's only in the summer. At one time I'm pretty sure they did it both summer and winter. And they've knocked the rebate back to $35 per year.

Not even going to bother with it.

But... I'm not finding anything on Dominion's site saying if they can take control of your smart thermostat... Going to look into that a little bit more.

[Ben]

I never signed up for the program because I didn't want my heat turned off in the winter because recovering temps with a heat pump is a lot more power hungry because it kicks on the auxillary heat coils which is pure electric draw.

I wish they made (and maybe they do) a thermostat that for dual heat pump / furnace systems, instead of just kicking the gas furnace on below X (e.g., 26deg) temperature, you could also set things so that the gas furnace is the primary heat source for the "wake up time" temp, then after that temp is reached, the heat pump kicks back in as the primary to hold that temp.

For Winter, my night setting is 62 because I like to sleep cool. My "wake up time" setting is 69, and when it's like 30deg outside, the heat pump draws enormous amounts of energy for that 7 degrees. In fact sometimes it gives up all on its own and switches to the gas furnace, so there must be some internal setting already that says "okay, we're not getting anywhere. Time for the propane".

I'd like a setting that automatically does that by temp differential. I've noticed that on days that I've felt especially cold in the morning and have manually upped the target temp from 69 to 72, the thermostat will override the heat pump and switch to the furnace, so maybe an internal sensor is already set to 10 deg or something.

[K Frame]

My winter usage is a bit different now that I have the pellet stove...

My thermostat is set at 60 deg. and generally doesn't come on unless I'm away and the pellet stove isn't running. When I am home I have the stove set on automatic to come on in the morning for a couple of hours starting before I get up and that puts enough heat in the house that the heat pump doesn't come on (unless it's REALLY cold out). When I get home I fire the stove and keep it running as needed, until I head to bed.

Last winter the only time my heat pump ran was at Thanksgiving and Christmas when I was away for a week.

[charby]

My wife wants a Ring really bad, I'm fighting her to the very end on it due to everything written above.

[K Frame]

Mtnbkr got a ring camera and a Nest thermostat. Not sure how he's secured it...

[just Warren]

[dogmush]

......You can just turn Sidewalk off.  It takes like 3 secs.  Amazon sent me an email about it like 2 weeks ago.....

[Ben]

......You can just turn Sidewalk off.  It takes like 3 secs.  Amazon sent me an email about it like 2 weeks ago.....

I know, but part of my point was that it's "opt-out", not "opt-in". I believe that anything that can affect network or other personal security should be an "opt-in". This ties into the current big google lawsuit where they have been stealth deactivating privacy settings.

[Jim147]

I'd go John Wick on their ass.

[Bogie]

Back in 2014, I came home from a stint on the road, and found out that the gas company was charging me $30+ per month just to be connected, with zero usage. That was $360 a year.
 
Okayfine. Decided that I would see how I could do without a furnace for a winter. It's a small house. I bought two of the oil-filled electric radiators. They do very well until it gets in the thirties, at which point #3 goes on. Under about 15-20 degrees, I supplement with a propane vent-free during waking hours. I'm a "cold" person, and 60 degrees makes me happy. This winter, when it got down to -5, the coldest the house was when I got home from work was 45... And recovery from that was pretty fast.
 
I pay about as much extra on electric, averaged, as I did for just the connection charge for the gas.
 
Probably going to wire in a 220 electric baseboard sooner or later. Three rooms, 700 square feet...
 
I used 423 kwh last month. Electric water heater and cooking. I used about 1700 in January.

[K Frame]

"Back in 2014, I came home from a stint on the road, and found out that the gas company was charging me $30+ per month just to be connected, with zero usage. That was $360 a year."

That's called your connection fee or service charge. Your electric company does the same thing.

I have a heat pump system (you may want to look into installing a mini split system in a house that small, actually). In bad winters I'd use well over 1,000 kwhr to "heat" my house, but it sure as hell didn't feel heated.

When I got my pellet stove my monthly winter electric bill now doesn't exceed 600 kwhr. It would be even less but I let the fan run 24x7 to keep the air moving.

[cordex]

I have a device that ostensibly supports Amazon Sidewalk.  I've not received any emails about it, and when I log on to my account it doesn't show as if it supports it.  Weird.