Immigration Bill proposed

[De Selby]

Manedwolf,

The comparison I'm making is about walking into neighborhoods with hispanics wearing an INS jacket.  It's a stereotype that labels whole neighborhoods of people with certain colors and accents criminals.

The point of the comparison was that, just like going to a gun show with an ATF jacket isn't going to result in anything eventful, neither is wearing an INS jacket in a neighborhood with tons of hispanics.  But that doesn't stop a lot of anti-gunners from stereotyping all gun owners as criminals and saying "Hey! We should send cops to those gun shows!", just like it doesn't stop people from looking at a neighborhood with a bunch of hispanics and saying "HEy! I know, we'll send an INS jacket wearing guy...that'll teach e'm"

[The Rabbi]

I like this INS idea...it's stereotyping at its best.

Wear a jacket that says "ATF" and go to a gunshow! Everyone that looks away or leaves is probably a gun criminal.

Nobody is breaking the law at a gunshow. Illegals are breaking the law. What are you saying there? 

That's downright offensive. Sounds like something an anti-gun sort would say.

You're joking, right?  Plenty of people break laws at gun shows.  All those tables with "non dealers" selling "their own personal guns."  The majority of people, no.  Same with Hispanic neighborhoods.

[Gewehr98]

I like this INS idea...it's stereotyping at its best.

WTF?  Nobody's stereotyping anything.  You show up in a neighborhood infested with illegals while wearing an INS jacket, and watch 'em scatter.  Care to guess which ones are bugging out and which ones stay put?  I'll give you a hint - the ones scattering are sans Green Cards, and have something to hide from the INS.

Just like walking into a dark room and turning on the lights - the cockroaches scurry hither and yon until you can't see them anymore.

[De Selby]

I seriously doubt that even in a neighborhood where the majority were illegal immigrants, that they would run from a dude in an INS jacket.  You're more likely to get that "ugh, another security guard" look than anything else.

But yeah, that comparison to cockroaches is not so nice.  I prefer to think about all people as, well, people.  I also think that comparing illegals to cockroaches brings harm to people who want to voice legitimate gripes about immigration, because it's the kind of dehumanization that makes people (rightly or wrongly) wonder whether or not racism is part of the reason you're so upset about it.

[CAnnoneer]

We again ended up in the realm of the truly bizarre thanks to the usual suspect. Enjoy.

[Gewehr98]

Nice. Who's being racist?  Would it make you feel better if I gave cockroaches anthropomorphic attributes normally associated with scurrying illegal immigrants? Would your heart bleed less?  It's an analogy, and unless you have a better way of describing illegals hauling a** at the sight of INS (like I have over the last 20+ years, btw), I will continue to use it. I've got plenty of descriptions for you that come from the animal world, too.  Would that be racist?

Now, why did you just play the race card? (Shades of Al Sharpton, there) That's weak, in and of itself. Which race would that be?  I'll assume you meant the human race, since there is no other definition. Even my anthropology professor back in 1984 knew that. (ie, the DNA makeup from one Homo Sapiens to the next is remarkably human no matter which specimen is selected from whatever continent) 

Shootinstudent, I'm exceptionally curious. Why are you so sympathetic to people breaking the law and causing problems to law-abiding residents?  Perhaps you have something to hide. My ancestors immigrated through the normal channels, I've even got family pics of some at Ellis Island.  It's an insult to them and all other legal immigrants to suggest that they didn't need to raise their hands and recite the Pledge of Allegiance.     

[De Selby]

It's an analogy, and unless you have a better way of describing illegals hauling a** at the sight of INS (like I have over the last 20+ years, btw), I will continue to use it. I've got plenty of descriptions for you that come from the animal world, too.  Would that be racist?

Well, my point was that when many people read that, they do think "racism."  Comparisons to animals was one of the hallmarks of racism, and so doing it now in relation to people of a different race makes people wonder.  It does not make you a racist, nor does it mean I'm calling you one, as I'm not.  But I think it's true to say that making those kinds of comments puts off a large segment of the population that might otherwise be willing to sympathize with your fear of illegals.

Shootinstudent, I'm exceptionally curious. Why are you so sympathetic to people breaking the law and causing problems to law-abiding residents?  Perhaps you have something to hide. My ancestors immigrated through the normal channels, I've even got family pics of some at Ellis Island.  It's an insult to them and all other legal immigrants to suggest that they didn't need to raise their hands and recite the Pledge of Allegiance.     

I'm really curious now too.  What exactly would I "have to hide" that would make me post this?  What sorts of things would you be thinking of?

Where did I suggest that legal immigrants didn't need to say the pledge of allegiance??? 

What's ellis island have to do with proposals about controlling illegal immigration today? Surely you do not mean to say that there was no illegal immigration in those days, or that immigration was "controlled"...the period descriptions of immigrant towns from the turn of the century make the Compton of Boyzndahood look like a gated community.

[Gewehr98]

Read again, Grasshopper.

I said that folks like you who staunchly defend illegal immigrants do so as an insult to all the legal immigrants who actually had the integrity to go through the naturalization process, culminating in their raising of hands and reciting the Pledge of Allegiance in front of a magistrate. Ie, some of my ancestors who went through Ellis Island vs. just camping out and sponging off of citizens.

You're protecting the illegals, and justifying their right to entitlements granted to full-fledged citizens.  That stinks on ice. Then you pulled the race card, which I found hilarious, considering I'm a graduate of the Defense Equal Opportunity Managagement Institute, and had many subordinates from all ethnic groups under my command. Ask any of my superiors or subordinates, and they'll tell you I'm color-blind, but very much performance-critical.

BTW, even in the military, if you're not a citizen by the end of your first enlistment, you're out, period. Nor will you get a regular commission if you're not a bona-fide legal resident.

[CAnnoneer]

Yes, we are to believe that:

1) SS is a shooter, yet he has never mentioned any guns he owns. Hmmm.
2) He is an American-born of Irish descent, yet he blindly defends the ME cultures, particularly arabs.
3) He sounds like a leftist moonbat on most occasions, yet he is also religious, likely muslim.
4) He professes schooling in philosophy and history, yet he's been wrong far more often than not on virtually any topic related to them, and quite blatantly so.
5) He professes strong support for democracy, yet he vehemently defends theocratic dictatorships
6) He is against Saudi dictatorship, yet he is for Iranian dictatorship
7) He is born here (and therefore a citizen by current rules), yet he places virtually anybody else before America and its interests
8 ) He is supposed to be pro-2A, yet he believes in the global kumbaya that will certainly destroy it.

Either we are being misled somewhere, or we truly have a psychiatric specimen here.

[De Selby]

I said that folks like you who staunchly defend illegal immigrants do so as an insult to all the legal immigrants who actually had the integrity to go through the naturalization process, culminating in their raising of hands and reciting the Pledge of Allegiance in front of a magistrate. Ie, some of my ancestors who went through Ellis Island vs. just camping out and sponging off of citizens.

Right....and how does that equate to me saying that legal immigrants shouldn't have to say the pledge of allegiance? I'm still not seeing that. 

What I've been saying here is that no one is proposing workable solutions to the problem, and that's why nothing is being done.  You harping on an even more hole-filled process from 100 years ago (tons and tons of criminals, sick, and non-english speakers flowed in back then....the slums that resulted were worse than anything in any city in America today by far)...does not constitute proposing something sensible for today.

You're protecting the illegals, and justifying their right to entitlements granted to full-fledged citizens.  That stinks on ice. Then you pulled the race card, which I found hilarious, considering I'm a graduate of the Defense Equal Opportunity Managagement Institute, and had many subordinates from all ethnic groups under my command. Ask any of my superiors or subordinates, and they'll tell you I'm color-blind, but very much performance-critical.

Again, my point was that dehumanizing people and comparing them to animals inevitably will make a large number of people uncomfortable, and whether they tell you or not, they will suspect racism is the motivation for it.  Are you saying that's not true?  Or are you just repeating that it's "the race card" even after I said twice that I don't think you're a racist?

"I have black friends", btw, tends to give that impression also, as does "Hey, I can't have ever said a racist thing because I employed black people", especially after you just got done calling mexicans cockroaches.  No, that doesn't prove anything, and no, it's not necessarily right that people jump to this conclusion....but it certainly doesn't help motivate people on the fence to join your calls to scatter the Mexicans.

[De Selby]

CAnnoneer,

The thing you're missing is that the whole list left off the slient "CAnnoneer says based on his internet psychoanalysis..." in front of each part of the list.  That changes the equation somewhat, don't you think?

Are you an American?

[The Rabbi]

CAnnoneer,

The thing you're missing is that the whole list left off the slient "CAnnoneer says based on his internet psychoanalysis..." in front of each part of the list.  That changes the equation somewhat, don't you think?

Are you an American?

Why, he's as American as George Soros!

[De Selby]

I have proof positive that I'm american here, just since I've been doubted so many times.

Just look at how much I enjoy Pizza, I mean, does that smile on my face not scream "Chicago deep dish"?

Would you like some pizza too?

[Manedwolf]

Just a little note for the discussion:

LOS ANGELES (AP) - A Mexican national accused of causing the crash that killed "A Christmas Story" director Bob Clark and his son will face deportation proceedings once the charges against him are resolved, officials said Thursday.

U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement put an immigration hold on Hector Velazquez-Nava, a 24-year-old illegal immigrant living in Los Angeles, said agency spokeswoman Virginia Kice.

The action means Velazquez-Nava will be turned over to U.S. immigration officials and placed in deportation proceedings once his local case is completed. He was arrested for investigation of driving under the influence of alcohol and gross vehicular manslaughter and was being held on US$100,000 bail in a county jail.

Illegal driver, driving like many illegal drivers seem to, kills director of iconic American film "A Christmas Story" and his son. Faces deportation. Ten to one he'll be back, too.

Talk about a metaphor for the bigger picture...

[CAnnoneer]

The thing you're missing is that the whole list left off the slient "CAnnoneer says based on his internet psychoanalysis..." in front of each part of the list.  That changes the equation somewhat, don't you think?

Nice try. Everything I mentioned is easily verifiable by just reading your posts - things you have said about yourself and positions you have taken on multiple issues. The incongruences are there, not in some imaginary interpretation of mine. So, let us know where you lied or if, instead, you are just a nutcase. That it is either one or the other is beyond question this late in the game.

Are you an American?

Yes I am. What an interesting question to come from the one who claims to be one, yet he places foreigners and foreign countries before and above American interests. Even if you are an American (which jfruser and I seriously doubt), you certainly are AIPO (American in passport only). Your allegiances are very clear, and they are not American, or even Western for that matter. The sad part is you are not alone. We have a large fifth column of AIPOs. The most obvious and most reviled, but probably also the most honest ones, moved to France or Afghanistan a long time ago.

[De Selby]

Everything I mentioned is easily verifiable by just reading your posts -

Woah there, you're making this like it's a cold hard fact.  Let me take the descriptions you give and list them, then you tell me if these phrases are ones that could not possibly be the product of personal judgment more than fact-checking against established criteria:

blindly defends

leftist moonbat

he's been wrong far more often than not on virtually any topic

vehemently defends

he places virtually anybody else before America

he believes in the global kumbaya

What am I missing here? Are these labels that one establishes through say, a scientific process? Or do you think that perhaps deeply personal reactions might be at play in deciding, for example, when someone is "blindly" doing anything, or "vehemently" doing something else?

I think it would be nutty to read that list, then to read you saying that it's all "easily verifiable", and not end up scratching my head.

Even if you are an American (which jfruser and I seriously doubt), you certainly are AIPO (American in passport only). Your allegiances are very clear, and they are not American, or even Western for that matter. The sad part is you are not alone. We have a large fifth column of AIPOs.

We also have a large number of people who believe that Jews are controlling the media in order to bring America down.

Which group is more dangerous, of the two, and which are you a member of?

[CAnnoneer]

I think it would be nutty to read that list, then to read you saying that it's all "easily verifiable", and not end up scratching my head.

We do not need you to say "I am a leftist traitorous xenophile moonbat" before we can reach the same conclusion. Believe it or not, we can actually extract it from what you say, given enough material, which you have provided abundantly. Anyone interested and still in doubt can read your posts here and on THR and piece it together.

We also have a large number of people who believe that Jews are controlling the media in order to bring America down. Which group is more dangerous, of the two, and which are you a member of?

The usual redirection. Because I despise AIPOs, I must be an anti-semitic ZOG-spouting neo-nazi. Because these are the only two possibilities. Please try to be more original in your diversionary smear tactics.

Which group is more dangerous?? When the neo-nazis come anywhere close to controlling half the Congress, most of the traditional media, most of primary and secondary education, most of the fundraising, most of the gov bureaucracy, etc, and when they lose a war or two for us, I will consider that question a serious one.

[The Rabbi]

But in the meantime he'll be contemplating how to maintain his hold on power and eliminate his enemies.  Right, comrade?

[CAnnoneer]

But in the meantime he'll be contemplating how to maintain his hold on power and eliminate his enemies.  Right, comrade?

Whatever you say, comrade Kaczynski.

[Lonestar49]

...

Three things to say:

1. immigration programs: just a means to buy votes

2. the whole situation, since day one, is no different today than yesterday, ants are gonna invade picnics..

3. The idea of making the entire border a Military FFZ has merit..


*an old thought.. back in the early 70's, my buddy and I went down to Ensenada for some R&R and after riding our Dirt bikes all day, got cleaned up and headed out to the ~ The Long Bar ~ for some thirst quenchers but it had a block long line to get in.  We decided to head down the street and get a bite to eat first, and come back when the line was no more, around 9pm.

Just as we crossed the street, away from the line to get in, 2 Mexican Police Vans (big ones) came rushing by, lights on, and in the matter of less than 5 mins, they cleaned out the line by forcing 90% (Gringo's-non Mexicans) of the people into the Police Vans and hauling them off, to where, I have no idea, but the line was gone. 

Seems if it can work down there and it's good for the goose, why not up here, where it should be good for the Gander?


LS

[Sindawe]

Just as we crossed the street, away from the line to get in, 2 Mexican Police Vans (big ones) came rushing by, lights on, and in the matter of less than 5 mins, they cleaned out the line by forcing 90% (Gringo's-non Mexicans) of the people into the Police Vans and hauling them off, to where, I have no idea, but the line was gone.

I've heard tales of such from my older associates and their exploits south of the border.

Application here does have a certain symmetry I find appealing...