Author Topic: Alec Baldwin Firearm Accident  (Read 41853 times)

RocketMan

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Re: Alec Baldwin Firearm Accident
« Reply #600 on: October 17, 2023, 07:00:40 PM »
Apparently, new evidence has come to light.  Enough to cause the special prosecutors in the case to empanel another grand jury to consider criminal charges against Baldwin.

https://www.foxnews.com/entertainment/alec-baldwin-could-face-new-criminal-charges-as-rust-shooting-heads-back-grand-jury
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Re: Alec Baldwin Firearm Accident
« Reply #601 on: January 19, 2024, 03:09:41 PM »
Officially charged

Quote
Alec Baldwin has been charged with involuntary manslaughter by a New Mexico grand jury, more than two years after accidentally shooting cinematographer Halyna Hutchins on the set of his ill-fated western film Rust.

The indictment was returned on Friday and charges Baldwin with involuntary manslaughter on the grounds of negligent use of a firearm and disregard for others' safety.

If convicted, Baldwin faces up to 18 months in prison. 

Previous charges, filed by New Mexico prosecutors, were dismissed in April last year.
Quote
Baldwin was practicing drawing the prop weapon from his holster when he claims it fired spontaneously.

He has always been adamant that he did not pull the trigger.

But a new report by Lucien Haag of Forensic Science Services in Arizona states that the trigger 'had to be pulled or depressed sufficiently to release the fully cocked or retracted hammer of the evidence revolver.'

Even if convicted I highly doubt he'll serve any time but we shall see

Alec Baldwin is charged with involuntary manslaughter for Rust shooting by New Mexico grand jury
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-12984687/Alec-Baldwin-charged-involuntary-manslaughter-Rust-shooting-New-Mexico-grand-jury.html
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Perd Hapley

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Re: Alec Baldwin Firearm Accident
« Reply #602 on: January 19, 2024, 03:47:28 PM »
Sounds like it's time for Alec Baldwin to renew his commitment to passing common sense gun safety reforms, and banning assault weapons.
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Re: Alec Baldwin Firearm Accident
« Reply #603 on: January 19, 2024, 04:02:31 PM »
Sounds like it's time for Alec Baldwin to renew his commitment to passing common sense gun safety reforms, and banning assault weapons.

<sarcasm>
This tragedy never would have happened if we had universal background checks.
</sarcasm>
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WLJ

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Re: Alec Baldwin Firearm Accident
« Reply #604 on: January 19, 2024, 04:11:57 PM »
No one needs 6 bullets.
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Hawkmoon

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Re: Alec Baldwin Firearm Accident
« Reply #605 on: January 20, 2024, 05:10:14 AM »
Officially charged

Even if convicted I highly doubt he'll serve any time but we shall see

Alec Baldwin is charged with involuntary manslaughter for Rust shooting by New Mexico grand jury
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-12984687/Alec-Baldwin-charged-involuntary-manslaughter-Rust-shooting-New-Mexico-grand-jury.html

I'd love to see him convicted. He should spend some time in prison but, even if he never spends a day behind bars, it will nonetheless be a wonderful day if that pompous ahole is officially convicted and his protestations of innocence are officially, legally refuted.
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230RN

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Re: Alec Baldwin Firearm Accident
« Reply #606 on: January 22, 2024, 05:27:57 AM »
From the cited article:

Quote
But a new report by Lucien Haag of Forensic Science Services in Arizona states that the trigger 'had to be pulled or depressed sufficiently to release the fully cocked or retracted hammer of the evidence revolver.'

I'm not so sure about the relevancy there because of the "fully cocked or retracted" qualification.

Isn't it possible to withdraw the hammer not-quite-to-the half-cock-notch, then let it slip from the thumb so that it strikes the primer, albeit lightly?  Without using the trigger.

I don't have any SA revolvers any more so I can't test this gun-in-hand, but I don't think the cylinder has rotated yet under this situation.  I think the pawl must be just barely peeping out of the recoil plate without rotating the cylinder.

It would be a light primer strike, but if the operation were repeated a number of times, I can see it setting off the primer.  Sort of like hangfires, where if you cock and "fire" again, they may go off.

Nevertheless, as I say, "never point a gun where you can't fix the hole."

Terry, 230RN

« Last Edit: January 22, 2024, 05:41:12 AM by 230RN »

Hawkmoon

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Re: Alec Baldwin Firearm Accident
« Reply #607 on: January 22, 2024, 09:34:17 AM »
From the cited article:

I'm not so sure about the relevancy there because of the "fully cocked or retracted" qualification.

Isn't it possible to withdraw the hammer not-quite-to-the half-cock-notch, then let it slip from the thumb so that it strikes the primer, albeit lightly?  Without using the trigger.


Baldwin's statements at the time were that he pulled the hammer back as far as it would go. I believe he even demonstrated that on his television interview after the shooting (which I didn't watch).
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WLJ

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Re: Alec Baldwin Firearm Accident
« Reply #608 on: January 22, 2024, 10:23:51 AM »
From the cited article:

I'm not so sure about the relevancy there because of the "fully cocked or retracted" qualification.

Isn't it possible to withdraw the hammer not-quite-to-the half-cock-notch, then let it slip from the thumb so that it strikes the primer, albeit lightly?  Without using the trigger.

I don't have any SA revolvers any more so I can't test this gun-in-hand, but I don't think the cylinder has rotated yet under this situation.  I think the pawl must be just barely peeping out of the recoil plate without rotating the cylinder.

It would be a light primer strike, but if the operation were repeated a number of times, I can see it setting off the primer.  Sort of like hangfires, where if you cock and "fire" again, they may go off.

Nevertheless, as I say, "never point a gun where you can't fix the hole."

Terry, 230RN

Remember these guns are not originals but reproductions by Uberti or F.lli Pietta so there may be some safely features in them that may not have been present in the originals. I have a Uberti 1851 that has the same, or near enough, action to the 1873 (?). I may pull it out of the safe and mess with it. Note though there are some reports Baldwin's 1873's trigger was modified but reports vary greatly what on they mean by modified
« Last Edit: January 22, 2024, 10:44:10 AM by WLJ »
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HankB

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Re: Alec Baldwin Firearm Accident
« Reply #609 on: January 22, 2024, 10:40:06 AM »
Remember these guns are not originals but reproductions by Uberti or F.lli Pietta so there may be some safely features in them that may have not been present in the originals. I have a Uberti 1851 that has the same, or near enough, action to the 1873 (?). I may pull it out of the safe and mess with it. Note though there are some reports Baldwin's 1873's trigger was modified and reports vary greatly what they mean by modified
I heard a report that the gun had to be repaired with parts replaced in order to do the forensic testing. That seems to be utterly contrary to what I would think are evidentiary procedures, since they wouldn't be testing the gun as actually used.

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2024-01-20/alec-baldwin-grand-jury-involuntary-manslaughter-shooting-rust/103371264

From the link above, about halfway down:
Quote
The analysis from experts in ballistics and forensic testing relied on replacement parts to reassemble the gun fired by Baldwin, after parts of the pistol were broken during testing by the FBI. The report examined the gun and markings it left on a spent cartridge to conclude that the trigger had to have been pulled or depressed.
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Re: Alec Baldwin Firearm Accident
« Reply #610 on: January 22, 2024, 11:06:49 AM »
Here is the report in question.  These folks picked up the evidence in 2023 as part of the armorer's trial.

https://deadline.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/08/Aug.-15-2023-Defendants-Motion-Requesting-Jury-Instructions-on-Causation-exhibit-b.pdf

It doesn't outright say it, but it implies the broken pieces were broken by the FBI in the course of their testing, right after the shooting.  They also measured the broken pieces and found them to be dimensionally correct (except for the breaks). So the experts are saying the gun was working properly at the time of the shooting.

Additionally the parts on the firing pin indention depth and placement are interesting, because it proves the hammer got all the way to full cock before being dropped, which again strongly implies the trigger being held back, as the half and quarter cock notches were intact, and didn't stop it.

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Re: Alec Baldwin Firearm Accident
« Reply #611 on: February 26, 2024, 07:42:27 AM »
Found live rounds mixed in with the dummies on set.
Basically it appears she was incompetent* but Baldwin as producer also bears responsibility for both hiring her, keeping her on set despite it being obvious she was incompetent, and the general lack of safety on set.

Rust armorer Hannah Gutierrez-Reed's manslaughter trial is shown photo of shambolic Rust ammo cart strewn with dummy rounds in grim image taken after Alec Baldwin killed cinematographer
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-13116167/Rust-armorer-Hannah-Gutierrez-Reed-ammo-cart-Alec-Baldwin-Halyna-Hutchins.html

*I'm sure the reported drug use didn't help
« Last Edit: February 26, 2024, 12:46:27 PM by WLJ »
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Re: Alec Baldwin Firearm Accident
« Reply #612 on: February 26, 2024, 09:46:39 AM »
I want to see investigation into the chain of custody for the revolver as it made its way to FBI forensics and was then broken.

Ubertis are not poorly made.  If it didn't break on set, I rather doubt it broke while being inspected and fired by a forensic technician.
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Re: Alec Baldwin Firearm Accident
« Reply #613 on: February 26, 2024, 12:43:08 PM »
I'm guessing that the feebs whomped on the hammer with something to see if they could make it go forward...
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Re: Alec Baldwin Firearm Accident
« Reply #614 on: February 26, 2024, 07:06:56 PM »
I want to see investigation into the chain of custody for the revolver as it made its way to FBI forensics and was then broken.

Ubertis are not poorly made.  If it didn't break on set, I rather doubt it broke while being inspected and fired by a forensic technician.

I'm guessing that the feebs whomped on the hammer with something to see if they could make it go forward...

About that

Quote
Alec Baldwin's claim that he never pulled the trigger of the gun he used to accidentally shoot dead a cinematographer was challenged today in court by an FBI firearms expert.

Bryce Ziegler, an agent with the FBI firearms unit who examined the gun Baldwin used, said he had to break the gun with a mallet to get it to fire without using the trigger.

Ziegler, appearing for the prosecution, said that couldn't have happened on the set of Rust because the gun was in working order when it came to him.

His analysis contradicts claims by Baldwin that he only pulled back the hammer on the vintage-looking pistol.

The FBI agent gave evidence during the trial of Hannah Gutierrez-Reed, 26, the armorer for Rust
Quote
Ziegler told the court that he conducted extensive testing on the firearm that Baldwin was using to practice with.

In his lab the only way he could get the gun to fire without pulling the trigger was by hitting it with a mallet and that resulted in the gun being damaged on the inside.

Prosecutor Kari Morrissey said: 'In order for you to make the gun fire without pulling the trigger you had to break it?'

Ziegler said: 'That's what I had to do in my lab.

'It would not fire without pulling the trigger in the fully cocked setting without being broken.'

Alec Baldwin HAD to have pulled the trigger of the gun that killed cinematographer Halyna Hutchins, says FBI firearms expert who claims it's nearly impossible that it would go off otherwise
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-13128369/FBI-firearms-expert-Alec-Baldwin-pull-trigger-Hannah-Gutierrez-Reed.html

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WLJ

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Re: Alec Baldwin Firearm Accident
« Reply #615 on: February 26, 2024, 07:08:07 PM »
So yep, the FBI broke the gun trying to get it to fire without pulling the trigger.
So much For Baldwin's claim he didn't pull the trigger.
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Hawkmoon

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Re: Alec Baldwin Firearm Accident
« Reply #616 on: February 27, 2024, 07:00:04 AM »
About that

Alec Baldwin HAD to have pulled the trigger of the gun that killed cinematographer Halyna Hutchins, says FBI firearms expert who claims it's nearly impossible that it would go off otherwise
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-13128369/FBI-firearms-expert-Alec-Baldwin-pull-trigger-Hannah-Gutierrez-Reed.html

I think we all knew that already, but it's nice to see it formally confirmed. And it's also nice to finally understand how the FBI managed to break a functional firearm in testing it.
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WLJ

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Re: Alec Baldwin Firearm Accident
« Reply #617 on: February 27, 2024, 07:45:29 AM »
And for those wondering why Baldwin wasn't using a fake gun.
According to this guy Baldwin insisted on using a real gun because he liked the feel of them over the fakes and liked to "whip it out"

And also it appears Baldwin went off script  for the scene

Quote
In the footage Baldwin can be heard saying he was going to ‘whip it out’ even though the scene only called for him to show the handle.

Remember he's a highly vocal rabid anti-gunner

He also goes on how everything felt rushed which impacted safely

Rust crew member tells court Alec Baldwin insisted on using a real weapon because he loved the feel of 'hero props' and claims nobody could stand up to him because he was the 'big boss'
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-13128887/Alec-Baldwin-Rust-court-trial-Halyna-Hutchins.html
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Re: Alec Baldwin Firearm Accident
« Reply #618 on: March 06, 2024, 07:53:29 AM »
Some gun handling video from the trial.

https://youtu.be/Y9t6uaXwRGY
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Hawkmoon

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Re: Alec Baldwin Firearm Accident
« Reply #619 on: March 06, 2024, 08:08:22 AM »
Some gun handling video from the trial.

https://youtu.be/Y9t6uaXwRGY
One minute and 16 seconds into the video, and he has already lost all credibility.

"If it's a real gun, yes."

Wrong answer.
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WLJ

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Re: Alec Baldwin Firearm Accident
« Reply #620 on: March 06, 2024, 08:13:58 AM »
One minute and 16 seconds into the video, and he has already lost all credibility.

"If it's a real gun, yes."

Wrong answer.

These replicas are real guns, what an idiot! :facepalm:
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Re: Alec Baldwin Firearm Accident
« Reply #621 on: March 06, 2024, 07:47:33 PM »
Quote
The armorer for the Alec Baldwin movie Rust has been found guilty in the shooting death of the film's cinematographer.

A jury found that Hannah Gutierrez-Reed negligently allowed a live bullet to get into the gun on the set of Western that Baldwin used to accidentally shoot dead Halyna Hutchins, the movie's cinematographer.

After two hours of deliberations at the courthouse in Santa Fe, New Mexico, a jury found Gutierrez-Reed guilty on the manslaughter count, but acquitted her on a charge of tampering with evidence.

Quote
Gutierrez-Reed, 26, the daughter of respected film industry armorer Thell Reed, faces up to 18 months in jail. She showed little emotion as the verdicts were read, but a family member broke down while sitting behind the now-convicted felon.

Judge Mary Sommer remanded Gutierrez-Reed in custody telling her the reason is because, 'you are now convicted [...] it's criminal negligence, but still a death.'

The verdict seemingly spells trouble for Baldwin, 65, when he goes on trial in July in the same courthouse for involuntary manslaughter. If found guilty he faces 18 months in jail as well.
Rust armorer Hannah Gutierrez-Reed is found guilty of involuntary manslaughter over shooting death of cinematographer Halyna Hutchins
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-13164897/Rust-Hannah-Gutierrez-Reed-involuntary-shooting-death-cinematographer-Halyna-Hutchins-trial-verdict.html

Alec is up next
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Ben

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Re: Alec Baldwin Firearm Accident
« Reply #622 on: March 06, 2024, 07:57:31 PM »
She bears some responsibility, but if I read between the lines here, she might have been bullied by Baldwin.

Quote
"Hannah Gutierrez knew that Baldwin was loose. She knew it," special prosecutor Kari Morrissey said during closing arguments. "She didn't do anything about it, even though it was her job. It was her job. It is her job to say to an A-list actor, if in fact, that's what you want to call him, 'Hey, you can't behave that way with those firearms.' That is her job. That is what they pay her for. That is the job that she applied for. That is the job that she accepted."

https://www.foxnews.com/entertainment/alec-baldwin-rust-armorer-convicted-involuntary-manslaughter
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Blakenzy

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Re: Alec Baldwin Firearm Accident
« Reply #623 on: March 07, 2024, 08:35:38 AM »
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1-jfL3Js9LA

Here they went into a good amount of technical detail. Fun to watch (if you are into guns)
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Re: Alec Baldwin Firearm Accident
« Reply #624 on: April 15, 2024, 05:38:11 PM »
Gave her the max, 18 months

Alec Baldwin's 'Rust' armorer sentenced to maximum time in fatal on-set shooting
https://www.foxnews.com/entertainment/alec-baldwins-rust-armorer-sentenced-maximum-time-fatal-on-set-shooting
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