Alec Baldwin Firearm Accident

[Ron]

He was filming a western, maybe .45 Colt if they were going for authentic.

[AZRedhawk44]

Fnckwits shouldn’t be handed guns or gun shaped objects.

I’m wondering if there’s a chance that he had one of the few privileged California CCW permits that only go to high profile liberals and he mixed up his own carry gun with a ‘prop’ gun?

They are filming a western.  So unless his personal carry weapon is a single action revolver, that's unlikely.

I just had a crazy thought in my mind straight out of a Columbo episode
What if he actually wanted to kill her and brought a loaded magazine with a live round(s) on top to make it look like an accident, I mean misfire?

Again, it's a western.  No magazine.  Inserting cartridges into the cylinder would be a very deliberate action on what was most likely an SAA.

I’ve read that witnesses stated that Baldwin said something like “ I should shoot you two”, a moment before shooting.

Would this make it pre-meditated, considering that he said it prior to pointing a gun at a person(s) and pulled the trigger? It would certainly illustrate intent, whether the gun was loaded or not (guns are always loaded!)

Got a link to that?  I've read several articles about this story so far and not one has had any witness statements in it.

Hollywood sucks, but I really think this one needs to be chalked up to dumbsh!t f&ckwittery, or even negligence by the propmaster and weapons handler, or even possibly just awful luck.  And it's even possible Baldwin was actually shooting a scene and directed to do exactly as he did by the Director. 

If he was horsing around... then manslaughter on his part and/or negligent homicide on the part of the propmaster.

[zxcvbob]

You can easily see the bullet from the front in a revolver until the hammer is cocked.  FWIW.

Criminal negligence on somebody's part.  Probably not murder, but it could be.

[WLJ]

Again, it's a western.  No magazine.  Inserting cartridges into the cylinder would be a very deliberate action on what was most likely an SAA.

1) I said it was a crazy idea like something out of a TV show and I think that idea was used for one. In other words not to taken seriously. But crazier things have happened. 
2) Didn't know it was a western at the time
3) Are we sure the firearm was one of the movie props yet and/or what type? I haven't seen anything saying what model/make/type. The media may be assuming it was a prop

More than likely what we have here was a tragic but avoidable accident. Maybe time will tell.

[AZRedhawk44]

An aside, am I the only one having uncontrollable laughter and eye rolling over the notion of casting Alec Baldwin as the grim stoney-eyed greybeard gunslinger?

Eastwood is now 20+ years too old for it, but there's an enormous list of talent I would put in that role before Alec Baldwin.  Russel Crowe, Mel Gibson, Josh Brolin, Harrison Ford (probably too old now), Tom Selleck, Stallone, Tommy Lee Jones, Jeff Bridges, Ed Harris, Kurt Russell, Liam Neeson, Kevin Costner, Bruce Willis, Gary Sinise, Kiefer Sutherland... all make much better western appearance and appeal than Alec Baldwin.  My top 3 from that list would be Ed Harris first and foremost for such a role, then TLJ and Neeson.

[Perd Hapley]

He probably is a hypocrite and terrible person, but being anti-gun while using a gun a in movie isn't automatically hypocritical.
Acting involves pretending to do things you might not personally endorse such as murder, rape, or eating pineapple on pizza.

Baldwin was not pretending to have a deadly weapon.

[Hawkmoon]

Much like cordex mentioned earlier with his blank firing 8mm 1911, they don't have barrels/chambers/cylinders that match ammunition dimensions.  Often times you can watch a movie and see that the dimensions of the barrel or the cylinder holes are off proportion if you have a sharp eye.

I don't think that's true for cowboy revolvers. For those, they use 5-in-1 blanks: https://www.westernstageprops.com/5-in-1-Brass-Blank-Ammunition-p/sa13b.htm

[MechAg94]

He was filming a western, maybe .45 Colt if they were going for authentic.

There were all sorts of calibers used in the West.  I imagine cap & ball and cartridge conversions were most common depending on what time you look at things.

[230RN]

...Either whoever was in charge of the "props" dropped the ball - big time - or there's something more sinister in play. Cops need to really, really investigate this in detail.

I'm glad someone else said that first.  I would like to find out where the box of remaining cartridges is, if it wasn't just some junk in the barrel.

And if there was junk in the barrel, where did it come
from?

Anyone know the range involved?

Terry "I suspect no-one and I suspect everyone," 230RN

REF (General info on commercial blanks):
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/5-in-1_blank_cartridge

(The use of the term ".410 gauge" therein is a common mistake, even by a lot of gun owners.)

[BobR]

I am willing to start a social media rumor that the person killed was pregnant with Baldwin's child and he could not afford to have his (fiery) Spanish wife find out about it because it would cost him everything so he was carrying around a live round for the prop gun just waiting for his chance to "accidentally" shoot her. I think I saw something like this on Rizzoli and Isles TV show a long time ago.

bob

[ConstitutionCowboy]

What do the blanks they use look like? Do they look anything like a wad cutter?

Woody

[Angel Eyes]

What do the blanks they use look like? Do they look anything like a wad cutter?

Woody

There is a picture of 5-in-1 blanks at the link Hawkmoon posted.

[RocketMan]

Baldwin is quoted as saying that in all his years in the business, he has never been handed a "hot gun".  It seems he is already beginning to spin the event and deflect blame.
If I remember correctly, he was shooting blanks from a 1911 in "The Hunt for Red October".  I could be wrong but those scenes didn't look like CGI shooting to me.

[Brad Johnson]

There's also been a shift to Airsoft CO2 guns. With a little paint and weathering they will pass for the real thing even in 4K. They also have a realistic slide/bolt action. All that's need are a few CHI muzzle flashes and some sound editing to complete the illusion.

Brad

[WLJ]

If I remember correctly, he was shooting blanks from a 1911 in "The Hunt for Red October".  I could be wrong but those scenes didn't look like CGI shooting to me.

Movie came out in 1990, a bit early for that kind of CGI. At least the kind that wouldn't be obviously fake

[WLJ]

This don't look good. Whether or not it had anything to do with the incident the optics don't look good.

    NEW: Hours before actor Alec Baldwin fatally shot a cinematographer on the New Mexico set of “Rust” with a prop gun, a half-dozen camera crew workers walked off the set to protest working conditions.https://t.co/47h0WFvxjZ

    — Los Angeles Times (@latimes) October 22, 2021

    Halyna Hutchins, had been advocating for safer conditions for her team, said one crew member who was on the set. https://t.co/47h0WFvxjZ pic.twitter.com/rJF84nNE8g

    — Los Angeles Times (@latimes) October 22, 2021

    “Corners were being cut—& they brought in nonunion people so they could continue shooting,” one person said. There were 2 misfires on the prop gun & 1 the previous week, they said, & “there was a serious lack of safety meetings on this set.” @MegJamesLAT: https://t.co/5krzF2dhDK

    — Sam Schulz (@schulzsam) October 22, 2021

Wondering what they mean by misfires

And this to consider. According to this when they say live round it doesn't mean what we think of as a live round.

And there’s an important clarification as earlier reporting suggested there was a “live” round in the firearm but this doesn’t mean that there was an actual cartridge with a bullet loaded as non-film people would think of it:

    Important update on Baldwin:

    "A source close to The Times said the union does not know what projectile was in the gun and clarified that 'live' is an industry term that refers to a gun being loaded with some material such as a blank ready for filming."https://t.co/auWdr49amb

    — Greg Pollowitz (@GPollowitz) October 22, 2021

‘Serious lack of safety meetings’: The LA Times has a MAJOR update on the fatal shooting involving Alec Baldwin in New Mexico
https://twitchy.com/gregp-3534/2021/10/22/serious-lack-of-safety-meetings-the-la-times-has-a-major-update-on-the-fatal-shooting-involving-alec-baldwin-in-new-mexico/

[Ron]

Yikes 

[Jim147]

I like most westerns. I have seen many that show loading a pistol with the proper round flat nose cartridges. I had always thought those had a spent primer and no powder in them. Maybe I was wrong.

[AZRedhawk44]

Baldwin is quoted as saying that in all his years in the business, he has never been handed a "hot gun".  It seems he is already beginning to spin the event and deflect blame.
If I remember correctly, he was shooting blanks from a 1911 in "The Hunt for Red October".  I could be wrong but those scenes didn't look like CGI shooting to me.

That sounds like he was engaging in asshattery during scene setup and was handed the weapon by the propmaster, and decided it was time for some pew-pew joking.  He wouldn't be saying something like that if it happened during a take; it would have been the director's own fault at that point, or the propmaster's.  Though I'd still stand on the fact the movie industry would do much better if the actors treated the prop weapons with the seriousness they deserved, and worked hand-in-hand with the propmasters to ensure to the best of everyone's ability that no live rounds are ever introduced and no obstructions, and clarity for all parties is obtained regarding how a weapon is used in a scene as safely as possible.

I hate this type of abdication of all blame where "just because I didn't want for it to work like a real gun, means it isn't my fault if it ends up working like a real gun."  From either a deontological perspective or a teleological perspective, Baldwin did something very very bad.

[just Warren]

Is it possible it was a KB and the two victims caught shrapnel?

[WLJ]

Is it possible it was a KB and the two victims caught shrapnel?

Came across this

ALEC BALDWIN ON-SET TRAGEDY: WHAT COULD HAVE GONE WRONG?
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Blast from the blank struck something else on set

One possibility, though it is not likely, is that the blank hit something else, damaged it, and caused that prop or piece of equipment to send pieces flying towards the director and Hutchins.

Rhys Muldoon who has used guns on set many times and says even blanks are dangerous, speculated at that possibility, telling the BBC: 'The first thought I had is this is a close up of a gun being fired by the actor, very close to the frame of the camera, that has misfired, hit the DoP, and then something has either come off the French Flag or the black box like a part of the camera and hit the director as well.'

But movie experts say even in those cases, there should be more safeguards in place.

'If you are in the line of fire... You would have a face mask, you would have goggles, you would stand behind a Perspex screen, and you would minimize the number of people by the camera.

'What I don't understand in this instance is how two people have been injured, one tragically killed, in the same event,' Steven Hall, who has worked on films such as Fury and The Imitation Game, told BBC.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbiz/article-10118665/Rust-movie-set-starring-Alec-Baldwin-LOCKED-New-Mexico.html

[AZRedhawk44]

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbiz/article-10118665/Rust-movie-set-starring-Alec-Baldwin-LOCKED-New-Mexico.html

When an actor plays a character for almost 15 years I tend to associate the character with the actor... even though I shouldn't.  But this article has some comments by Jensen Ackles (Dean from Supernatural) about his experience, evidently on the same set with the same propmaster.

I would expect Ackles to voice familiarity with Beretta/Taurus 92's, 1911's, shotguns, and SAA's at a minimum, given the 14? seasons of that CW show.  But he evidently chose to claim no significant firearms experience when talking to the propmaster and seemed nonplussed with his safety briefing from her when given a weapon.

[MechAg94]

'Rust' crew walked off set to protest working conditions hours before cinematographer death: Reports
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/rust-crew-walked-off-set-to-protest-working-conditions-hours-before-cinematographer-death-reports/ar-AAPQuJm

The outlets report that, hours before the fatal incident, members of the "Rust" camera crew packed up their gear and walked off the job in protest and, per the LA Times, were replaced with nonunion crew members soon after. The outlets also noted at least two previous misfires on a prop gun on set days before.

I heard another source just say they hired locals.  This article says non-union.  No indication that those people handled the gun props that I see.

(edit:  I guess this was in the Twitchy link above that WLJ posted)

[MechAg94]

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/prop-gun-alec-baldwin-use-fire-fatal-shot-misfired-rcna3635
This link says the particular prop gun misfired before but doesn't really explain what that means so it is sort of meaningless.

[Jim147]

Misfire is going to be the term since he is antigun.