Author Topic: Alec Baldwin Firearm Accident  (Read 21670 times)

Hawkmoon

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Re: Alec Baldwin Firearm Accident
« Reply #400 on: December 11, 2021, 12:33:49 AM »
.38 S&W might work.  I can't remember for sure what size it is, but I think it's .365".  Or use swaged hollow-base wadcutters in whatever .38 cartridge you want.

That's one of the options they try. Another option is to find a mold for a .376" or .377" heeled-base bullet and load your own in .38 Special cases.
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Bogie

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Re: Alec Baldwin Firearm Accident
« Reply #401 on: December 11, 2021, 12:43:08 AM »
Yeah, I'd figure a shortened "special" load... Run the head up too, so you have a long tunnel for the primer... Drop a little powder, crimp in a round ball, call it good.
 
Worse comes to worse, I can probably make a bullet mold, but I'd rather not jack around with that - too much like work.
 
(mold makers think upside-down and backwards - wildest thing the shop did was a setup for injection molding shot cups for a 16 gauge run...)
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WLJ

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Re: Alec Baldwin Firearm Accident
« Reply #402 on: December 11, 2021, 02:19:23 AM »
More info
Quote
"Halyna was telling Alec she wanted to see his thumb working the hammer back to do the shot," Gandy recalled during ABC's 20/20 episode "The Deadly Take."

Hutchins was probably 18 inches or two feet away from the muzzle of the gun when it was fired, according to Gandy.
Quote
Crew member Lane Luper resigned the morning of Hutchins' death. He had claimed his resignation was due to poor accommodations and unsafe conditions on set. Specifically, Luper had said that scenes, where guns were used, were played "fast and loose," according to the interview.

However, other crew members refuted his allegations.
https://www.foxnews.com/entertainment/rust-alec-baldwin-halyna-hutchins-moment-gun-went-off
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Ben

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Re: Alec Baldwin Firearm Accident
« Reply #403 on: December 11, 2021, 07:55:47 AM »
More infohttps://www.foxnews.com/entertainment/rust-alec-baldwin-halyna-hutchins-moment-gun-went-off

So from the armchair, but (four rules aside, sake of argument) if I were told they wanted to see me "cock the gun" I would assume they wanted me to actually cock the gun, not hold the hammer back part way. If they wanted to see me do it multiple times, I would be cocking the gun, lowering the hammer back down, which requires trigger manipulation, then repeating. At some point, were I careless, the hammer might slip.

I don't think I've ever seen a scene in a Western where somebody was pulling a gun on somebody else with their thumb holding the hammer part way back. The hammer is either down or fully cocked back.
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Perd Hapley

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Re: Alec Baldwin Firearm Accident
« Reply #404 on: December 11, 2021, 05:35:41 PM »
So from the armchair, but (four rules aside, sake of argument) if I were told they wanted to see me "cock the gun" I would assume they wanted me to actually cock the gun, not hold the hammer back part way. If they wanted to see me do it multiple times, I would be cocking the gun, lowering the hammer back down, which requires trigger manipulation, then repeating. At some point, were I careless, the hammer might slip.

I don't think I've ever seen a scene in a Western where somebody was pulling a gun on somebody else with their thumb holding the hammer part way back. The hammer is either down or fully cocked back.


The way Baldwin explained it (not that we should trust anything he says), she needed him to thumb the hammer back, but it sounded like it wasn't supposed to be all the way back. Not sure why. It also sounds like he's saying he intentionally let go of the hammer, as they were done with that particular shot.
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230RN

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Re: Alec Baldwin Firearm Accident
« Reply #405 on: December 14, 2021, 01:03:00 PM »
And that's probably true. What he left out (and, to be honest, still may not understand) is that he probably had his finger on the trigger while he pulled back the hammer. The trigger travel on an 1873 is VERY short and, if the trigger is held back when cocking the hammer, the sear can't engage so, when the hammer is released -- it falls.

Very true, and thanks, Hawkmoon.

Seems like every time someone points something out, some kind of weird explanation is offered.  I think they're called "plot holes" in the industry.




MechAg94

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Re: Alec Baldwin Firearm Accident
« Reply #406 on: December 14, 2021, 01:57:36 PM »
Which all gets into what IMO are pointless explanations.  The gun went off when he was holding it and pointing at the deceased.  That is true whether he pulled the trigger or not.  He still accidentally shot the lady even if it wasn't intentional.  It appears he didn't murder her.  In that jurisdiction, what would they typically do in the case of an accidental or negligent death?  Even if they decide not to hold him criminally responsible, he is still liable. 
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WLJ

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Re: Alec Baldwin Firearm Accident
« Reply #407 on: December 21, 2021, 08:04:05 AM »
Been only what? Two months?

Alec Baldwin
Cops Get Search Warrant for His Phone As 'Rust' Investigation Continues
https://www.tmz.com/2021/12/16/alec-baldwin-cell-phone-search-warrant-rust-shooting-investigation/
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RocketMan

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Re: Alec Baldwin Firearm Accident
« Reply #408 on: December 21, 2021, 08:40:55 AM »
Been only what? Two months?

Alec Baldwin
Cops Get Search Warrant for His Phone As 'Rust' Investigation Continues
https://www.tmz.com/2021/12/16/alec-baldwin-cell-phone-search-warrant-rust-shooting-investigation/

And the cops gave him plenty of warning, announcing in the media weeks ago that they were going to search his phone.  I'm sure he is grateful for the extra time the cops allowed for him to wipe his phone completely.
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Fly320s

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Re: Alec Baldwin Firearm Accident
« Reply #409 on: December 21, 2021, 03:26:02 PM »
And the cops gave him plenty of warning, announcing in the media weeks ago that they were going to search his phone.  I'm sure he is grateful for the extra time the cops allowed for him to wipe his phone completely.

Does "search his phone" mean searching the actual phone and it's contents or does that mean the cops will search all transmitted data?
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Re: Alec Baldwin Firearm Accident
« Reply #410 on: December 21, 2021, 04:14:45 PM »
Does "search his phone" mean searching the actual phone and it's contents or does that mean the cops will search all transmitted data?

I would guess all of the above.
If there really was intelligent life on other planets, we'd be sending them foreign aid.

Conservatives see George Orwell's "1984" as a cautionary tale.  Progressives view it as a "how to" manual.

My wife often says to me, "You are evil and must be destroyed." She may be right.

Liberals believe one should never let reason, logic and facts get in the way of a good emotional argument.

Perd Hapley

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Re: Alec Baldwin Firearm Accident
« Reply #411 on: December 21, 2021, 09:25:11 PM »
And the cops gave him plenty of warning, announcing in the media weeks ago that they were going to search his phone.  I'm sure he is grateful for the extra time the cops allowed for him to wipe his phone completely.

Wipe it - with a cloth...
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ConstitutionCowboy

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Re: Alec Baldwin Firearm Accident
« Reply #412 on: December 22, 2021, 10:55:30 AM »
And that's probably true. What he left out (and, to be honest, still may not understand) is that he probably had his finger on the trigger while he pulled back the hammer. The trigger travel on an 1873 is VERY short and, if the trigger is held back when cocking the hammer, the sear can't engage so, when the hammer is released -- it falls.

I think you mean the half cock notch on the hammer. Those revolvers don't have a sear.

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Hawkmoon

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Re: Alec Baldwin Firearm Accident
« Reply #413 on: December 22, 2021, 08:24:09 PM »
I think you mean the half cock notch on the hammer. Those revolvers don't have a sear.


Yeah, they do. It's the upper end of the trigger.

https://schematron.org/image/colt-saa-parts-diagram-2.jpg
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ConstitutionCowboy

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Re: Alec Baldwin Firearm Accident
« Reply #414 on: December 22, 2021, 09:34:59 PM »
Yeah, they do. It's the upper end of the trigger.

https://schematron.org/image/colt-saa-parts-diagram-2.jpg

You can call it that if you wish.

Woody
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Hawkmoon

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Re: Alec Baldwin Firearm Accident
« Reply #415 on: December 22, 2021, 09:40:12 PM »
You can call it that if you wish.


It's not a question of what I wish -- it's a matter of definition:

https://www.americanfirearms.org/firearms-glossary/
Quote
Sear
The part of a firearm that keeps a hammer cocked until the trigger is pulled.

https://www.definitions.net/definition/SEAR
Quote
searnoun

Part of a gun that retards the hammer until the trigger is pulled.

Etymology: From searian, from sear. Related to Old High German soren, Greek hauos ("dry"), Sanskrit sōsa ("drought"). The use in firearms terminology may relate to French serrer ("to grip").
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dogmush

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Re: Alec Baldwin Firearm Accident
« Reply #416 on: December 22, 2021, 09:45:58 PM »
Yeah, they do. It's the upper end of the trigger.

https://schematron.org/image/colt-saa-parts-diagram-2.jpg

That is the strangest looking SAA I've ever seen.

FWIW, the Colt parts lists have a "sear spring " which holds the top of the trigger towards the hammer.

Bogie

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Re: Alec Baldwin Firearm Accident
« Reply #417 on: December 22, 2021, 09:54:27 PM »
That's because that isn't an SAA... That's a percussion cap piece, from about 20 years prior to the advent of the SAA...
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JN01

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Re: Alec Baldwin Firearm Accident
« Reply #418 on: December 23, 2021, 12:08:01 AM »
That's because that isn't an SAA... That's a percussion cap piece, from about 20 years prior to the advent of the SAA...

The innards are the same though.  If the sear is broken so that it won't engage the cocking notches on the hammer, the hammer will fall as soon as it is released, without touching the trigger. It would do that every time, though, so it would be obvious the gun was not functioning properly.

Bogie

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Re: Alec Baldwin Firearm Accident
« Reply #419 on: December 23, 2021, 12:11:33 AM »
So, the firearm will be examined, and will either not have the trigger sear, or the damn fool had his finger pulling the trigger back, and his thumb slipped.
 
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Hawkmoon

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Re: Alec Baldwin Firearm Accident
« Reply #420 on: December 23, 2021, 07:13:47 AM »
That is the strangest looking SAA I've ever seen.

FWIW, the Colt parts lists have a "sear spring " which holds the top of the trigger towards the hammer.

Quote from: Bogie
That's because that isn't an SAA... That's a percussion cap piece, from about 20 years prior to the advent of the SAA...

It's the only cut-away view I could find. Lots of exploded parts diagrams of the SAA, but no cutaways.

The mechanism is the same. The upper end of the trigger is the sear.

Gosh, you'd think I haven't ever worked on 1849s, 1851s, or 1973s.
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dogmush

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Re: Alec Baldwin Firearm Accident
« Reply #421 on: December 23, 2021, 09:56:00 AM »
I was just having fun because the hyperlink says SAA when it's clearly  not one. Guess I should have used a smiley.

But while we're at it:
Gosh, you'd think I haven't ever worked on 1849s, 1851s, or 1973s.

Is a Colt 1973 like a revolver? Still Single Action?


......



 =D

JN01

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Re: Alec Baldwin Firearm Accident
« Reply #422 on: December 23, 2021, 11:11:16 AM »
So, the firearm will be examined, and will either not have the trigger sear, or the damn fool had his finger pulling the trigger back, and his thumb slipped.

Yes, or he cocked the gun and then pulled the trigger.
« Last Edit: December 23, 2021, 04:56:58 PM by JN01 »

Bogie

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Re: Alec Baldwin Firearm Accident
« Reply #423 on: December 23, 2021, 01:49:16 PM »
Click C
Click O
Click L
Click T

And then bang is how it usually works, until something gets worn or monkeyed with.
 
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WLJ

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Re: Alec Baldwin Firearm Accident
« Reply #424 on: December 23, 2021, 02:05:02 PM »
Someone needs to edit the scenes in The Hunt For Red October where Baldwin is handed the 1911 followed by the part where shots go flying in the control room
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