Author Topic: Alec Baldwin Firearm Accident  (Read 24209 times)

ConstitutionCowboy

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Re: Alec Baldwin Firearm Accident
« Reply #475 on: August 22, 2022, 10:27:44 AM »
...

How did the FBI get involved? Local cops asked for an expert opinion on the gun?

I would guess the locals didn't want to take the responsibility of arresting and prosecuting such a 'high profile' job creator.

Woody
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zxcvbob

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Re: Alec Baldwin Firearm Accident
« Reply #476 on: August 22, 2022, 11:36:42 AM »
I would guess the locals didn't want to take the responsibility of arresting and prosecuting such a 'high profile' job creator.

Woody

Ultimately it's their job to arrest and prosecute.  I really doubt any federal laws were broken.  But I don't blame them for calling in experts first (not sure why the FBI and not the state police)
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230RN

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Re: Alec Baldwin Firearm Accident
« Reply #477 on: August 23, 2022, 05:59:25 AM »
Part of that forensic report (as reported by TMZ) makes no sense at all.  It says the gun could have fired a primer by fiddling with the hammer but not fired a bullet.  WTF does that mean?

Indeed.  I stumbled over that myself.  Must be some kind of ignorant translation of a technical point, per Hawkmoon's remarks above.

And I don't know about you, but I dread the thought of a hammer slipping out from under my thumb, half-cock notches, hammer friction grooves, and transfer bars notwithstanding.

He was the producer of Rust, so I assume he had some role in the hiring.  I wonder if this means not even he would hire himself now?

Sign on President Truman's desk (may be a reproduction):



I'm also familiar with the danger of keeping a live round under the hammer of one of those antique single-actions, and I don't have a hard time imagining fiddling with the hammer and having it snap down weakly on a live round primer and making it detonate anyway.

Hence, incidentally, my aforementioned dread of having a hammer slip out from under my thumb because it happened to a cousin's uncle's son.  Did not go off, but left a perceptible dent on the cartridge primer, not unlike the dent from firing pin inertia in semi auto firearms*.

This was long ago, when my cousin's  uncle's son was new to firearms, and my cousin's uncle's son researched the matter further in actual printed books.  Nonte's, I believe my cousin's uncle's son said.

Terry, 230RN

* NOTE Primer sensitivity varies.  See Hatcher page 394 for some notes on this.  I was told once that foreign Berdan ammo has primers with harder cups than US standards to avoid slam-firing in their semi auto arms.
« Last Edit: August 23, 2022, 06:41:54 AM by 230RN »

MechAg94

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Re: Alec Baldwin Firearm Accident
« Reply #478 on: August 23, 2022, 10:00:32 AM »
The problem with guns is the bullet usually stops somewhere else. 

Not just antique single action guns.  Most of the reproductions have the same design so it is something people need to learn if they own one.
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Bogie

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Re: Alec Baldwin Firearm Accident
« Reply #479 on: August 23, 2022, 10:56:11 AM »
Funny, but you can usually rest that hammer between chambers... I suspect that the empty chamber loaded with burial money is a legend...
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Hawkmoon

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Re: Alec Baldwin Firearm Accident
« Reply #480 on: August 23, 2022, 11:35:05 AM »
Funny, but you can usually rest that hammer between chambers... I suspect that the empty chamber loaded with burial money is a legend...

Not on a Colt 1873 SAA. The Remington 1858 cap-and-ball revolvers had a rest notch between chambers on the cylinder. The SAA doesn't.

With that: Baldwin's story doesn't add up. He claims he pulled the hammer back as far as he could "without cocking the gun," and then let go of the hammer. The Italian clones (both Uberti and Pietta) have the authentic Colt 4-click cocking sequence. The first click occurs so soon after you start pulling the hammer back that it wouldn't even show up on a camera. Then come two more, and -- finally - the fully-cocked position. But the hammer won't return to rest from any of those positions if the trigger hasn't been pulled.

So either Baldwin is a liar (which is entirely possible, and maybe even probable), or he pulled the trigger and didn't realize that he had done so. Considering that he has shown horrible trigger finger discipline in previous films, I'm leaning toward the latter explanation. Which does not absolve him of responsibility, on any level. On the direct level, as the actor who fired the shot, he was THE person who fired the fatal shot, and who didn't observe the multiple safety protocols that were supposed to be in place. As one of the producers, he bears responsibility for the decision to cheap out on hiring an armorer, and then to require the armorer to do double duty as a prop assistant so that she wasn't available much of the time to do the primary job she was hired to do.
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griz

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Re: Alec Baldwin Firearm Accident
« Reply #481 on: August 23, 2022, 04:42:26 PM »
Quote
So either Baldwin is a liar (which is entirely possible, and maybe even probable), or he pulled the trigger and didn't realize that he had done so.

Seems to me he is in denial.  You can't pull the hammer back as far as it will go without cocking the gun, and the hammer will only drop when the trigger is pulled.  I don't doubt that he: 1. didn't expect the gun to fire, and 2. didn't want to shoot anybody.  But his explanations are just his mind refusing to accept that his actions killed somebody.
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dogmush

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Re: Alec Baldwin Firearm Accident
« Reply #482 on: August 23, 2022, 05:52:09 PM »
I don't think there's much doubt in the minds of anyone that has shot a SAA or clone (or hell, a Ruger Blackhawk) that he had poor trigger discipline, and his finger on the trigger as he cocked the gun held it off the hammer hooks, and he let the hammer go when he thought it was cocked, and the hammer dropped unexpectedly (to him).  Hell, given what was happening there's probably footage of him cocking it with his finger on the trigger.  It takes what? 3 lbs on the trigger to hold it off the hammer hooks?  It's less then the actual trigger pull anyway.

I'm sure his mind is telling him he didn't, and I'm equally sure he didn't mean to kill the lady, but he still did.  Responsibility can be a mofo.

zxcvbob

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Re: Alec Baldwin Firearm Accident
« Reply #483 on: August 24, 2022, 12:33:37 AM »
I don't think there's much doubt in the minds of anyone that has shot a SAA or clone (or hell, a Ruger Blackhawk) that he had poor trigger discipline, and his finger on the trigger as he cocked the gun held it off the hammer hooks, and he let the hammer go when he thought it was cocked, and the hammer dropped unexpectedly (to him).  Hell, given what was happening there's probably footage of him cocking it with his finger on the trigger.  It takes what? 3 lbs on the trigger to hold it off the hammer hooks?  It's less then the actual trigger pull anyway.

I'm sure his mind is telling him he didn't, and I'm equally sure he didn't mean to kill the lady, but he still did.  Responsibility can be a mofo.

I doubt that he meant to kill her, but I wouldn't rule it out as a possibility.  I really hope the investigators don't dismiss that without looking into it.
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dogmush

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Re: Alec Baldwin Firearm Accident
« Reply #484 on: September 26, 2022, 12:56:03 PM »

230RN

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Re: Alec Baldwin Firearm Accident
« Reply #485 on: September 26, 2022, 01:14:27 PM »


Pure theater.

"We've got to do something."

Avoidable accident.

"Okay, my client will go for that."

Thirty days picking up trash on the highway.

Suspended because of distances involved.

"See that your client doesn't do that again in my jurisdiction."

"Right.  No 'sta problema. Lunch?"

"Sure."

"Outback, my treat."

"Sounds good, let's go."

"Did you hear about that incredible putt Judge Markey made last Sunday?"

"Yeah, I'd like to get him under oath on that one!"

..................

I am not laughing.

Terry, 230RN

Pic credit public domain.
« Last Edit: September 26, 2022, 01:39:08 PM by 230RN »

dogmush

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Re: Alec Baldwin Firearm Accident
« Reply #486 on: September 26, 2022, 01:19:33 PM »
I din't think they were going to do any criminal charges at all, so if she follows through and charges him, I'll be happily surprised.

WLJ

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Re: Alec Baldwin Firearm Accident
« Reply #487 on: September 26, 2022, 01:25:40 PM »


Pure theater.

"We've got to do something."

Avoidable accident.

"Okay, my client will go for that."

Thirty days picking up trash on the highway.

Suspended because of distances involved.

"See that your client doesn't do that again in my jurisdiction."

"Lunch?"

"Sure."

"Outback, my treat."

"Sounds good, let's go."

..................

I am not laughing.

Terry, 230RN

Pic credit public domain.

Then everyone involved cry about it on Oprah
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Perd Hapley

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Re: Alec Baldwin Firearm Accident
« Reply #488 on: September 26, 2022, 01:39:54 PM »
Then everyone involved cry about it on Oprah

All but the deceased.
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griz

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Re: Alec Baldwin Firearm Accident
« Reply #489 on: September 26, 2022, 05:46:36 PM »
Why does the legislature need to decide if they'll fund it?  That can't be routine, or they would have to decide every felony charge in the state.  Is it a disguised escape hatch so Baldwin's attorneys only need to get the state to spend X dollars before they give up?
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WLJ

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Re: Alec Baldwin Firearm Accident
« Reply #490 on: October 05, 2022, 10:50:56 AM »
Filming to resume
A "settlement" has been reportedly reached with Hutchins family and her husband will be executive producer.

Does this seem a bit on the weird side to you?

Alec Baldwin shooting: Filming to resume after Halyna Hutchins death on set
https://www.bbc.com/news/entertainment-arts-63149155

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Brad Johnson

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Re: Alec Baldwin Firearm Accident
« Reply #491 on: October 05, 2022, 10:54:44 AM »
Filming to resume
A "settlement" has been reportedly reached with Hutchins family and her husband will be executive producer.

Does this seem a bit on the weird side to you?

Alec Baldwin shooting: Filming to resume after Halyna Hutchins death on set
https://www.bbc.com/news/entertainment-arts-63149155

Most of the time "Executive Producer" = percent of ticket sales, distribution revenues, royalties, and residuals. My guess would be Baldwin agreed to releasing a bunch of his EP rights in lieu of a lump sum settlement.

Brad
« Last Edit: October 05, 2022, 11:45:12 AM by Brad Johnson »
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Tuco

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Re: Alec Baldwin Firearm Accident
« Reply #492 on: October 05, 2022, 11:40:04 AM »
But still, the criminal charges?
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RoadKingLarry

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Re: Alec Baldwin Firearm Accident
« Reply #493 on: October 05, 2022, 04:22:13 PM »
 :
But still, the criminal charges?

 :rofl:
He's a Hollywood elite and a staunch democrat liberal commie and Trump hater.
He gets a different "justice" than what you or I would get.
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MechAg94

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Re: Alec Baldwin Firearm Accident
« Reply #494 on: October 05, 2022, 04:50:13 PM »
Most of the time "Executive Producer" = percent of ticket sales, distribution revenues, royalties, and residuals. My guess would be Baldwin agreed to releasing a bunch of his EP rights in lieu of a lump sum settlement.

Brad
Sounds like a stupid agreement to me unless there is guaranteed money. 
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Brad Johnson

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Re: Alec Baldwin Firearm Accident
« Reply #495 on: October 05, 2022, 06:13:31 PM »
Sounds like a stupid agreement to me unless there is guaranteed money. 

In the movie biz, having "Executive Producer" in your resume is most insiders' wet dream.

Brad
It's all about the pancakes, people.
"And he thought cops wouldn't chase... a STOLEN DONUT TRUCK???? That would be like Willie Nelson ignoring a pickup full of weed."
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ConstitutionCowboy

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Re: Alec Baldwin Firearm Accident
« Reply #496 on: October 08, 2022, 10:49:57 AM »
Shouldn't the title of this thread be, "Re: Alec Baldwin Firearm Negligence" ?

If someone already said this, good on you!

Woody
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Re: Alec Baldwin Firearm Accident
« Reply #497 on: October 08, 2022, 10:51:45 AM »
Shouldn't the title of this thread be, "Re: Alec Baldwin Firearm Negligence" ?

If someone already said this, good on you!

Woody

In fairness to the thread starter (me  =D )  we didn't know much about it when it was first reported.
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HeroHog

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Re: Alec Baldwin Firearm Accident
« Reply #498 on: October 08, 2022, 12:24:03 PM »
Or, at least "Incident". It CAN be changed, you know...
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Ben

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Re: Alec Baldwin Firearm Accident
« Reply #499 on: October 08, 2022, 12:25:50 PM »
Or, at least "Incident". It CAN be changed, you know...

Are you one of those lefties that's into stealth editing history?

 =D
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