Author Topic: Revenge of the Sith  (Read 5805 times)

S. Williamson

  • formerly Dionysusigma
  • friends
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 3,034
  • It's not the years, it's the mileage.
Revenge of the Sith
« Reply #25 on: May 29, 2005, 11:00:55 PM »
Hearing Darth Vader whine, actually whine, runied it for me.  Lucas should have handed the directing role over to Spielberg or someone actually good.Shocked

That said, it's nice to know it's over.  It wasn't really that bad.Smiley
Quote
"The chances of finding out what's really going on are so remote, the only thing to do is hang the sense of it and keep yourself occupied. I'd far rather be happy than right any day."
"And are you?"
"No, that's where it all falls apart I'm afraid. Pity, it sounds like quite a nice lifestyle otherwise."
-Douglas Adams

RevDisk

  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 12,633
    • RevDisk.net
Revenge of the Sith
« Reply #26 on: May 29, 2005, 11:38:12 PM »
In my opinion, the Jedi had it coming.   The prophecy is about bringing balance to the force?  Well, Vader DID bring balance.  The Jedi were controlling, lying, backstabbing, hypocritical "do-gooders" that caused more damage than they prevented.   They share a good amount of blame in the fall of democracy and the rise of the Empire.

Edit : Boy did I get some nasty looks when I was cheering while the Jedi were getting mowed down.
"Rev, your picture is in my King James Bible, where Paul talks about "inventors of evil."  Yes, I know you'll take that as a compliment."  - Fistful, possibly highest compliment I've ever received.

Sean Smith

  • Member
  • *
  • Posts: 257
Revenge of the Sith
« Reply #27 on: May 30, 2005, 03:26:53 AM »
Quote from: RevDisk
Edit : Boy did I get some nasty looks when I was cheering while the Jedi were getting mowed down.
Maybe because it is rude as hell to talk in any movie?

mtnbkr

  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 15,388
Revenge of the Sith
« Reply #28 on: May 30, 2005, 05:33:26 AM »
Quote
The prophecy is about bringing balance to the force?
He did bring balance to the Force.  Both in the way you describe or at the end of ROTJ when he kills Palpatine.  The prophesy did not say WHEN he'd bring balance.

I think the main reason the last three (ep 1-3) aren't considered as good as the first three (ep 4-6) is because we watched the original trilogy as kids, through kids' eyes.  We're watching the 2nd trilogy as adults with adult tastes.

Chris

Iapetus

  • friend
  • Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 176
Revenge of the Sith
« Reply #29 on: May 30, 2005, 06:20:40 AM »
Quote from: Blackburn
I have this mental image of Darth Vader wearing a shirt saying I AM A METAPHOR FOR GEORGE BUSH and Lucas saying 'Is there any way I can make it more obvious?'
The Spectator recently reviewed the film, including this comment:

Quote
"I have brought peace, feedom, justice, security to my new empire," he cackles, trying to sound like one pithed Sith.  "If you are not with me, you are my enemy."  Uh-oh.  Anakin seems to be transmogrifying into Darth W. Bush.

"Only a Sith deals in absolutes," scoffs Obi-Wan Kenobi.

Oh, put a light-sabre in it, will you?  The allegedly anti-Bush "subtext" has won Lucas the unlikely approval of the Cannes Film Festival crowd, but honestly: how desparate do you have to be to applaud mockery of Bush for seeing things in black and white from a guy who's spent 28 years peddling a fairytale so basic the good guys and the bad guys are called the Good Side and the Dark Side.

Sean Smith

  • Member
  • *
  • Posts: 257
Revenge of the Sith
« Reply #30 on: May 30, 2005, 10:15:02 AM »
Quote
I think the main reason the last three (ep 1-3) aren't considered as good as the first three (ep 4-6) is because we watched the original trilogy as kids, through kids' eyes.  We're watching the 2nd trilogy as adults with adult tastes.
I don't know, I just watched Star Wars again on DVD, and the dialoge was a lot less stupid and stilted, and the actors alot less wooden, than in the prequels.  The only thing the prequels have in their favor is special effects, and some of the CGI is still inferior to some of the better model shots.

The original trilogy was fundamentally silly, but fun.  There were flat spots in them here and there, but they didn't ever reach the level of monumental stupidity and bad acting of, for instance everything involving Anakin and Padme in the prequels.  The Ewoks were bad, but Jar Jar makes them look like unqualified genius.

Iapetus

  • friend
  • Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 176
Revenge of the Sith
« Reply #31 on: May 31, 2005, 01:43:41 AM »
Add to that:

In the original Star Wars (Episode 4):
* The scrolling introduction tells us that there is an Epic Stuggle going on between an Evil Empire (who have the power to destroy planets) and the Heroic Resistance.

* Moments later, we see nervous Reble soldiers preparing to repel borders, before getting mown down by Stormtroopers.  Then we see Their captain having his throat crushed by Vader.

* A little while later, we see a farmstead burnt to the ground by the Imperials, with the charred boddies of Luke's family left ldumped in the dirt.

We are left in no doubt that the Empire is both very evil, and very dangerous.


Compare Episode 1:
* The scrolling introduction tells us... that the taxation of trade routes is in dispute.

* The moment that the Trade Federation learn that the ambasadors are Jedi (I thought the Jedi were supposed to be Knights, not the armed wing of the WTO), they start panicing.  These are clearly not an enemy to be particularly worried about.

* Apart from the surprise attack on the Jedi's ship, the Trade Federation hardly ever kill (or injure) anyone.  They land an army on the planet without any obvious resistance, we see no battle damage in any of the Naboo cities.  They apparently rounded up all the Naboo into internment camps, but there was nothing to indicate this wasn't just done by saying "Please line up here".  The (relatively) primative Gungans put up more of a fight.

* And to top it all, the Trade Federation are so useless that an 8-year-old kid can fly a fighter into the hanger of their main mothership, and blow up the reactor (who designed these ships anyway?)  And the Naboo are so useless that they were losing until that kid turned up.


At least Episode II had more of a plot, more serious opposition, and more critical battles.  (But I thought it would have been better if the leader of the Seperatists hadn't been in league with Sideous/ Palpatine, but had actually believed in the cause.  It would have been a nice irony to have the Jedi etc fighting against the proto-Rebellion on behalf of the proto-Empire.  After all, if Yoda can lead proto-Stormtroopers into battle...)


Haven't seen Episode III yet.

Brad Johnson

  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 18,083
  • Witty, charming, handsome, and completely insane.
Revenge of the Sith
« Reply #32 on: May 31, 2005, 12:41:45 PM »
Personally, I think all three prequels stink. And I'm not real fond of 'Jedi', either. It's tries so hard to bring in the cutsie aspect (Ewoks) that it detracts from the rest of the film.

That isn't to say that the SFX aren't absolutely stunning. And the pic and sound are just incredible. Unfortunately, bad acting is still bad acting, and it's tough to overcome poor writing, direction, and editing by just throwing a bunch of CG and sound at the audience.

Lucas should stick to producing. His vision is great, but his skills as a dialogue writer are laughable and his directing is only so-so. I won't even go into the editing.

Oh, and who in the heck cast Hayden Christensen? Would someone find that poor dunce and sentence him to watching every commercial ever made by Billy "Orange Oxy Kaboom Clean Glow" Mays. At least Billy boy has enough spunk to be entertaining. Kudos to Ewan McGregor, who just nails Alec Guinness, and to Ian McDiarmid for aboslutely chewing up the scenery in every frame he's in. I'm torn on Sam Jackson. I think he did a fair job, but the way he played the character I expected him to jump up at any second, pull out a Big Kahuna burger & a big chromed pistol, and start saying, "The path of the righteous man is beset on all sides by the inequities of the selfish, and the tyranny of evil men..."

Thankfully, Jar Jar kept his annoying trap shut, or I might have had to turn around and smack the pimple factory behind me that insisted keeping up a running dialoge with his pudgy companion on every nuance, inside joke, and bit of trivia.

In the end I'll probably buy the stupid DVD so my nephew will have something to do while his Mom, Dad, and I do something only slightly more creative (sit on the patio, char mammal flesh, and drink beer). At least the Behind the Scenes should be moderately entertaining.

There. Got that off my chest. Now I'm going to go home, turn up the A/C, grab a frosty beverage, and watch a truly GOOD movie - Bubba HoTep. Or maybe UHF.

Brad
It's all about the pancakes, people.
"And he thought cops wouldn't chase... a STOLEN DONUT TRUCK???? That would be like Willie Nelson ignoring a pickup full of weed."
-HankB

Chris

  • Guest
Revenge of the Sith
« Reply #33 on: June 01, 2005, 10:35:52 AM »
Okay folks, last Friday we got the kids to Grandma and Grandpa, had dinner at teh Cheesecake Factory, and went to the 8:00 showing.  Overall, I enjoyed it.  Ewen McGregor was great, as was Ian McDormid (sp?).  Hayden and Natalie?  Well...the special effects were great.  The final duels were good.  Order 66 was great.  

Overall, I was pleased.  Not overwhelmed, but pleased.

Guest

  • Guest
Revenge of the Sith
« Reply #34 on: June 02, 2005, 02:47:23 AM »
In my opinion "Empire" was the best of the Star Wars films, it should be noted that this movie was NOT directed by Lucas, nor was The Return of the Jedi. Lucas = excellent writter, producer. This is NOT the same thing as being a good director.

Iapetus

  • friend
  • Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 176
Revenge of the Sith
« Reply #35 on: June 02, 2005, 07:24:34 AM »
Quote from: c_yeager
Lucas = excellent writter
Lucas = good writer?

You sure?

I have a copy of the Star Wars novel, written by Lucas himself.  Off hand, I can remember two particularly excrutiating sentances:

(In the Cantina)
"By the way the creature bobbed and weaved on its podal supports, Luke could tell that it had imbibed too much of whatever beverage it considered a pleasing intoxicant".

What's wrong with "The alien swayed drunkenly"?


(Obi-Wan facing Vader)
"... to him, death was just another sensation, like falling asleep or making love or touching a candle."

Making love = dying / falling asleep?  That explains why he was living alone in a hut in the desert, at least.


And that's not counting all the wooden dialogue that made it into all the films.


(By the way, I saw Episode III on Monday.  It was good.)

Guest

  • Guest
Revenge of the Sith
« Reply #36 on: June 02, 2005, 11:48:01 PM »
Ok, let me correct myself by saying good screen writer, rather than good writer in general. I too, tried to work through the star wars novel, it was unpleasant.

TarpleyG

  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 1,001
Revenge of the Sith
« Reply #37 on: June 05, 2005, 01:26:49 PM »
I just got back from the movie.  I know, call me blasphemist because I waited three weeks to see it.  I found it particularly funny when Amadala said something to the effect that they were giving away there liberty to an applause.  Sounds kinda familiar.  Anyone know Lucas' stance on our current Republic's condition?  On a side note, I was having a discussion with my wife's friend who is an editor for the Miami Herald and she recently turned down an opportunity to interview Lucas while the usual entertainment person was out sick.  She didn't want to do it.  WTF???  I am not even a reporter but I could fake it long enough to spend time picking that brain.

Greg

Dannyboy

  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 1,340
Revenge of the Sith
« Reply #38 on: June 06, 2005, 05:40:11 AM »
I just saw it this weekend and I have to agree with most everyone here, the dialogue was pretty bad at points.  Overall, though, I liked it.  Even though, 30 years later, we all know what happened it was kind of depressing watching it all.  But I still thought it was a good flick.  
I watched the originals yesterday and I have just one question;  How is it that Luke and Leia aged about 20 years while Obi-Wan added 30-40 years?
Oh, Lord, please let me be as sanctimonious and self-righteous as those around me, so that I may fit in.

Werewolf

  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 2,126
  • Lead, Follow or Get the HELL out of the WAY!
Revenge of the Sith
« Reply #39 on: June 06, 2005, 06:50:23 AM »
Saw it yesterday.

Overall - not impressed - in fact I felt ripped off having had to pay $6.50 a person to get in.

The only bright spot in my estimation was the kid who played Anakin. I thought he did a pretty good job (If he'd been a bit older he'd have made a better Aragorn than the guy who played Aragorn in the Rings Trilogy IMO). The Obi-Wan actor on the other hand just didn't have it. Stunted, emotionless hack.

What happened to Padme. They turned a beautiful, self confident young woman who ruled a world into a simpering shadow of her old self for no other reason than she was pregnant?

The pace of the movie was slow and predictable. I hated the way it hopped around in a manner that made it so discontinous as to destroy the effect. The dialogue just sounded contrived, fake to me.

There was way too much story to cram into the time alloted. It should have been two movies instead.

The other bright spot was when Padme said, "So this is how liberty dies - to thunderous applause". I know I've heard or read a comment something like that before but can't think where.  Lucas may not have intended it but thoughts of the patriot act immediately popped into my head.

Revenge had great promise which will sadly go unfullfilled.

But then I though Episode I was the best of them all and actually liked the Jar-Jar character so what do I know? Cheesy
Life is short, Break the rules, Forgive quickly, Kiss slowly, Love
truly, Laugh uncontrollably, And never regret anything that made you smile.

Fight Me Online

Sean Smith

  • Member
  • *
  • Posts: 257
Revenge of the Sith
« Reply #40 on: June 06, 2005, 06:57:04 AM »
Quote from: Werewolf
The only bright spot in my estimation was the kid who played Anakin. I thought he did a pretty good job (If he'd been a bit older he'd have made a better Aragorn than the guy who played Aragorn in the Rings Trilogy IMO). The Obi-Wan actor on the other hand just didn't have it. Stunted, emotionless hack.
Funny, you said the exact OPPOSITE of what I (& everyone else I've talked to) think.  The guy playing Anakin was better than the last movie, but still came across as too much of a little bitch for a Dark Lord of the Sith, and his acting in the "love" scenes was still awful.  No way in HELL he could hang with Viggo Mortensen in anything.   And Obi-Wan was a much better-executed character in my opinion than just about anybody else in the movie.

Dannyboy

  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 1,340
Revenge of the Sith
« Reply #41 on: June 06, 2005, 07:19:28 AM »
Quote from: Sean Smith
The guy playing Anakin was better than the last movie, but still came across as too much of a little bitch for a Dark Lord of the Sith
That's what I though at the end of the movie when he fights Obi-Wan and he gets all pouty and yells, "I hate you!"  I was thinking, man how old is he supposed to be here?
Oh, Lord, please let me be as sanctimonious and self-righteous as those around me, so that I may fit in.

Werewolf

  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 2,126
  • Lead, Follow or Get the HELL out of the WAY!
Revenge of the Sith
« Reply #42 on: June 06, 2005, 02:06:22 PM »
Quote
The guy playing Anakin was better than the last movie, but still came across as too much of a little bitch for a Dark Lord of the Sith...
No kidding. Because he wasn't a dark lord of the Sith.

In Revenge Anakin was a conflicted young man. He had Jedi tugging on the one side and the Sith Lord tugging on the other. Toss in the fact that he was in love and all that that entails for a young man who had too much power and too little maturity and you get the Anakin of Revenge. He did an excellent job portraying the character.

The Obi-Wan character just didn't have the presence to portray one of the supposed baddest ass of the Jedi. He was emotionless most of the time and the only time he even came close to showing any at all was when he berated Anakin for failing to fullfill the prophecy. Rent the DVD (when it comes out) and close your eyes - listen - don't look. It will be obvious who's acting and who you can forget is acting.

It may be that my view is jaded because to be honest after seeing all six movies and playing both Star Wars games I've come to despise the Jedi and everything they stand for. They're a bunch of holier than thou, meddling goody two shoes with out the raw courage to stand up for their convictions. Smiley  At least the Sith are honest about what they want...
Life is short, Break the rules, Forgive quickly, Kiss slowly, Love
truly, Laugh uncontrollably, And never regret anything that made you smile.

Fight Me Online

TarpleyG

  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 1,001
Revenge of the Sith
« Reply #43 on: June 07, 2005, 03:46:15 AM »
Quote
cause to be honest after seeing all six movies and playing both Star Wars games I've come to despise the Jedi and everything they stand for. They're a bunch of holier than thou, meddling goody two shoes with out the raw courage to stand up for their convictions. smile  At least the Sith are honest about what they want...
Okay then....you do know that all of this is pretend, right?

Greg

Werewolf

  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 2,126
  • Lead, Follow or Get the HELL out of the WAY!
Revenge of the Sith
« Reply #44 on: June 07, 2005, 04:53:53 AM »
Quote
Okay then....you do know that all of this is pretend, right?
Of course it is pretend but that doesn't make it any less fun to discuss does it? I mean it is fiction and unlike the discussions of real events that occur here a discussion of the events in a movie can go anywhere so why not have fun with it.

George Lucas did a pretty good job of creating a whole universe - not as good as Tolkien did IMO but still pretty darn good and entertained billions of folks (some of whom take it way too serious) when he did it. I'm no SW freak like some here obviously are (cheering at a movie - please) but I do enjoy the series. A combination of heroic fantasy, a style reminiscent of the movie serials of the 50's and sci-fi. That's a pretty entertaining combination if you ask me and well worth discussing and having fun with.
Life is short, Break the rules, Forgive quickly, Kiss slowly, Love
truly, Laugh uncontrollably, And never regret anything that made you smile.

Fight Me Online