War in Eastern Europe, what's it good for ....

[Angel Eyes]

Oh goody ...



Okay, everyone who has a Ukrainian flag in their X bio, now's your chance.

[WLJ]

Sweden is in NATO

Sweden finally joins NATO: What the accession means for Stockholm, its new allies... and an unhappy Vladimir Putin
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-13169065/Sweden-finally-joins-NATO-TODAY-accession-means-Stockholm-new-allies-unhappy-Vladimir-Putin.html

[Ben]

Found on reddit and I have no idea of the origin. If someone has confirming or contrary info, I'd be interested in seeing it. This map makes it look like Russia has most of what they want and just need to hold it until the proxy war with the West loses funding and/or enthusiasm, or lose it if the Proxy war ramps up (though there's a lot of unintended consequences to us if the latter). Much might depend on our 2024 elections.

The green areas, if true, are very surprising to me based on what I hear from US news sources and our government.

I'm also thinking that a lot of the Ukrainians in the red territories, because of their genealogical history,  would not be opposed to being part of Russia, unlike the Western Ukrainians.

[WLJ]

The above map doesn't show the areas the Russians have either been pushed out of or retreated from since this began (grey areas in the below map)

Screenshot from https://liveuamap.com/

[WLJ]

This mess is bleeding both countries though Russian has far more blood left to bleed. In the end that may decide things Verdun style if someone doesn't bump Putin off first.

[cordex]

Ben,

That map is highly manipulative.

Why would it show territory taken by Russia since 2014/2022 but only show Ukrainian gains since the lines stalemated halfway through 2023?  No, Ukraine isn’t blitzing through Russian lines these days, but neither is Russia, and Russia lost a lot of what they took initially.

I know it is fashionable on the right to point out propaganda on one side of this conflict, but we equally shouldn’t rush to make ourselves susceptible to the opposing side’s propaganda.

[Ben]

Ben,

That map is highly manipulative.

Why would it show territory taken by Russia since 2014/2022 but only show Ukrainian gains since the lines stalemated halfway through 2023?  No, Ukraine isn’t blitzing through Russian lines these days, but neither is Russia, and Russia lost a lot of what they took initially.

I know it is fashionable on the right to point out propaganda on one side of this conflict, but we equally shouldn’t rush to make ourselves susceptible to the opposing side’s propaganda.

That's why I was asking about it. Though I ask the same about WLJ's map.

I don't trust Russian government or media information on this conflict.
I don't trust Ukrainian government or media information on this conflict.
I absolutely don't trust US government or media information on this conflict.

I don't know if there has been any other world event in recent history where I have had this much distrust regarding information from ANY source.

[cordex]

WLJ’s map doesn’t strike me as particularly contentious. It shows gains and losses on both sides for the same time period - essentially since 2014. Picking different timeframes for each side is absolutely manipulative and playing into the hands of Russia’s propagandists.

I agree that this war is highly propagandized, but why do you suspect that it is any more so than any other significant conflict since ever?

[Ben]

I agree that this war is highly propagandized, but why do you suspect that it is any more so than any other significant conflict since ever?

Well, I didn't say "since ever". 

However I'm seeing Hamas level (and quality) propaganda coming out of most everyone in this conflict - both the combating nations and the proxy players. Moreso than even the Russia/Afghan or US/Afghan conflicts. Since we're talking about Dune lately, I see plans within plans, and more people than the Emperor are, if not at the center of it, looking to take advantage of it. Or needing to cover something up because of it.

[cordex]

I don’t disagree with anything you are saying about the propaganda of this war, I’m saying it has always been this way with every war. Peace, too.

Just because you are noticing it more now doesn’t make it more pronounced than it used to be, just that you are becoming less credulous than you used to be.

[WLJ]

I don’t disagree with anything you are saying about the propaganda of this war, I’m saying it has always been this way with every war. Peace, too.

Just because you are noticing it more now doesn’t make it more pronounced than it used to be, just that you are becoming less credulous than you used to be.

Not much has changed in that regard in the past 10,000 years or so except for the amount of it made possible by the printing press, telegraph, radio, television, and now the internet.

[MillCreek]

https://www.cnn.com/2024/03/09/politics/us-prepared-rigorously-potential-russian-nuclear-strike-ukraine/index.html

Maybe I should buy one of those Costco emergency food buckets that keep being talked about here.

[Opportunity]

I don't know if there has been any other world event in recent history where I have had this much distrust regarding information from ANY source.

A truly paradoxical situation: the more responsive and open the media, social networks and methods of delivering information become, the less trust there is for an objective assessment of information )))
I completely agree with your statement!
By the way, a balanced assessment of the opinions of various parties often does not help either.

[MechAg94]

Not much has changed in that regard in the past 10,000 years or so except for the amount of it made possible by the printing press, telegraph, radio, television, and now the internet.

How Dare YOU!!  Caesar's Commentaries were 100% accurate!!  Everyone says so. 

 

I think the fact that we have so many information sources and we can see at least some of the propaganda is a big change for this war.  We haven't had that so much in the past.  Seems to me that just about everyone I hear comment either has picked a side or is getting their information from someone who has picked a side.  Hard to find anyone commenting that is neutral. 

[Angel Eyes]

This poster is circulating on X:



So the Russians are using Tiger tanks in Ukraine? 















(yes, I get that the artist is trying to draw a parallel between Russia in 2024 and Nazi Germany in 1941)

[WLJ]

So the Russians are using Tiger tanks in Ukraine? 

And Do-17s (the aircraft)

[MillCreek]

https://www.npr.org/2024/03/22/1240246465/russia-moscow-shooting-attack-fire-concert-hall?ft=nprml&f=1124

I wonder who will turn out to be responsible for the attack.

[WLJ]

https://www.npr.org/2024/03/22/1240246465/russia-moscow-shooting-attack-fire-concert-hall?ft=nprml&f=1124

I wonder who will turn out to be responsible for the attack.

We haven't heard from the Chechens in a while and that seems to more in line with their SOP

[MillCreek]

^^^I was thinking the same thing.  Maybe it is their way of saying we are still here.

[WLJ]

At least 40 dead over 100 wounded, and at least 100 trapped in the building which is burning

Moscow concert hall shooting: At least 40 dead after three gunmen 'in camouflage uniform' open fire on crowd in 'terror attack' as huge venue is engulfed in flames as survivors cower trying to escape massacre
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-13228663/Moscow-concert-hall-shooting-three-gunmen-camouflage-open-fire-crowd-huge-venue-rocked-explosion-injuries-reported.html

[WLJ]

Knowing ISIS I don't know how much stock to put into this

The terror group took responsibility for the attack in a short statement published by ISIS-affiliated news agency Amaq on Telegram on Friday. The group did not provide evidence to support the claim.

ISIS claims responsibility for attack in busy Moscow-area concert venue that left at least 40 dead
https://www.cnn.com/2024/03/22/europe/crocus-moscow-shooting/index.html

[dogmush]

The Russians are going to lose their *expletive deleted*it over this.

Best case it's some Islamic terrorists from one of the hinterlands, and we just get some old fashioned gulags and mass killings.

Worst case it's a group with ties to Ukraine  and those weapons can be traced to a NATO military aid package.  That probably would mean a real war.

[WLJ]

Now saying 62 dead
Also saying at least 3 of the shooters are still on the loose

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-13229483/Moscow-concert-hall-shooting-40-dead-Islamic-State-responsibility.html

Sparks? And what could be flying casings look shotgun size. Or are those marks on the floor?
I could be off the mark here but that could be one of those long 10-12rd shotgun mags that a 12ga Saiga could take hanging down from his gun. Think I still has a couple around here somewhere from when I had a Saiga 12ga.

[WLJ]

BBC news reporting US had info in Nov about possible ISIS attacks in Russia.
Warnings were issued two weeks ago telling Americans in Moscow to avoid large gatherings and specifically warned about concerts.
Also saying US intel has confirmed ISIS is taking credit

https://www.bbc.com/news/live/world-68642036?ns_mchannel=social&ns_source=twitter&ns_campaign=bbc_live&ns_linkname=65fe17eab26acd1fbf32f82b%26No%20reason%20to%20doubt%20IS%20claim%20-%20US%20official%262024-03-22T23%3A53%3A22.397Z&ns_fee=0&pinned_post_locator=urn:asset:fd6ba3b5-3bdd-475d-8771-172688f7a1e0&pinned_post_asset_id=65fe17eab26acd1fbf32f82b&pinned_post_type=share

[WLJ]

115 reported dead now. May rise as 16 people are described as being in extremely serious condition, 44 in serious
11 people have been "detained" Several still on the loose.

Russia arrests 11 Moscow massacre suspects as they reveal names and pictures of those they believe behind ISIS concert hall slaughter as death toll rises to 115 and pictures reveal bloody aftermath
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-13230367/russia-arrest-moscow-massacre-crocus-concert-death.html