Author Topic: War in Eastern Europe, what's it good for ....  (Read 682722 times)

De Selby

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Re: War in Eastern Europe, what's it good for ....
« Reply #3350 on: January 17, 2025, 07:13:38 AM »
WHAAAAT?

Russia controls roughly 20% of Georgia. https://www.csce.gov/hearings/russias-occupation-georgia-and-erosion-international-order/

By that 20 percent you mean region never actually controlled by Georgia, but which it tried to invade and conquer?
"Human existence being an hallucination containing in itself the secondary hallucinations of day and night (the latter an insanitary condition of the atmosphere due to accretions of black air) it ill becomes any man of sense to be concerned at the illusory approach of the supreme hallucination known as death."

De Selby

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Re: War in Eastern Europe, what's it good for ....
« Reply #3351 on: January 17, 2025, 07:16:10 AM »
By that logic Hitler and then the SU was justified in invading Poland because Poland had signed a defense treaty with UK and France. Well that's it, WW-II is Poland's fault for feeling threaten by it's neighbor, sorry about the 40+ million dead.

Yeah no, this is not even remotely an analogous situation.
"Human existence being an hallucination containing in itself the secondary hallucinations of day and night (the latter an insanitary condition of the atmosphere due to accretions of black air) it ill becomes any man of sense to be concerned at the illusory approach of the supreme hallucination known as death."

cordex

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Re: War in Eastern Europe, what's it good for ....
« Reply #3352 on: January 17, 2025, 07:27:10 AM »
The bit you’re missing is that Russia is in one sense a very powerful nation - it can destroy a few thousand American cities with nuclear weapons. That is why confrontations with it should only be undertaken in the interests of the whole American people
I tend toward this position as well, but I also don't view the Russian abuse of their neighbors as anything like morally good.

Digging into what “free” choices Georgia and Ukraine made and what the actual populations of the Territories Russia did occupy want (like Crimea and Ossetia) makes your point weaker, not stronger. The reason Russia was able to hold those places and hasn’t been able to do comparatively well elsewhere is popular support. The copious amounts of US aid required to establish NATO friendly governments in Georgia and Ukraine strongly suggests that their populations were not exactly clamouring for it.
It is interesting that in your model, Russian-backed and controlled governments and threats of Russian invasion are considered the baseline and anything that runs against that is undue Western influence.

Also, the actual popular opinion in Russian-occupied areas is a tiny bit hard to measure and at best is mixed.  Russian support is there, but almost certainly overstated given the influence of Russian propaganda, restricted freedoms, and biased polling.

By that 20 percent you mean region never actually controlled by Georgia, but which it tried to invade and conquer?
Post-Soviet Russia directly fueled conflict in those zones, including encouraging expulsion of tens of thousands of ethnic Georgians.

All of these conflicts are messy, but we don't have to pretend that Russia is the good guy just because we don't want to send US men to die fighting for their victims.

dogmush

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Re: War in Eastern Europe, what's it good for ....
« Reply #3353 on: January 17, 2025, 08:33:28 AM »
US backed coup = / = free alliance of a people with NATO. Seriously.

Hey man YOU called it "US Aid" (I even quoted you)

I would have happily written that post as: "US and Western soft power, cash, and propaganda =/= Russian military action, Seriously" and my point would still have been made.

Anyways, make sure you pull a building permit the next time you dig up those goalposts to move them.

MechAg94

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Re: War in Eastern Europe, what's it good for ....
« Reply #3354 on: February 10, 2025, 11:19:56 AM »
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qi8vgD7FUEc
Dealing With Chinese Drones || Peter Zeihan

The video wasn't much, but he threw in a tidbit at the end about a US Replicator initiative supposedly about a drone mothership that can make more drones.  That sounds interesting. 

I hadn't heard of that.  Of course, a search shows it isn't new news.  Interesting though.  I hadn't seen much on what we were doing with military drone tech.  Of course, all the links are news/policy discussions and not technical details. 
https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=US+Replicator+initiative
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Northwoods

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Re: War in Eastern Europe, what's it good for ....
« Reply #3355 on: February 10, 2025, 11:31:04 AM »
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qi8vgD7FUEc
Dealing With Chinese Drones || Peter Zeihan

The video wasn't much, but he threw in a tidbit at the end about a US Replicator initiative supposedly about a drone mothership that can make more drones.  That sounds interesting. 

I hadn't heard of that.  Of course, a search shows it isn't new news.  Interesting though.  I hadn't seen much on what we were doing with military drone tech.  Of course, all the links are news/policy discussions and not technical details. 
https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=US+Replicator+initiative


He also had a video saying Trump was using up his political capital at bonfire rates, and none of his cabinet picks were remotely competent.

Macro scale evaluations of demographics, and trends in economies he's pretty good at.  I don't trust his analysis in most other subjects, and for domestic politics he is very clearly afflicted with TDS.
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MechAg94

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Re: War in Eastern Europe, what's it good for ....
« Reply #3356 on: February 10, 2025, 03:35:42 PM »
He also had a video saying Trump was using up his political capital at bonfire rates, and none of his cabinet picks were remotely competent.

Macro scale evaluations of demographics, and trends in economies he's pretty good at.  I don't trust his analysis in most other subjects, and for domestic politics he is very clearly afflicted with TDS.
I very much agree.  The videos I liked from him were on those two subjects.  Not many others cover stuff like that. 

I didn't listen to the Trump video as it looked foolish.  He is a bit cracked when it comes to domestic politics. 
“It is much more important to kill bad bills than to pass good ones.”  ― Calvin Coolidge

WLJ

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Re: War in Eastern Europe, what's it good for ....
« Reply #3357 on: February 10, 2025, 03:38:09 PM »
Yeah notice some TDS in his videos well before the election so I can only assume it has gotten way worse since but I've not watch any of his videos in some time.
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cordex

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Re: War in Eastern Europe, what's it good for ....
« Reply #3358 on: February 10, 2025, 04:13:00 PM »
I very much agree.  The videos I liked from him were on those two subjects.  Not many others cover stuff like that. 
He's just as certain when he's getting things wrong.  I'm not qualified to judge his capability on most issues, but a few times I've caught something that is outright incorrect, and I haven't seen much humility or fessing up to his mistakes.

Fair or not, when someone is so overconfidently authoritative, I may nod along for a while, but when I catch them making significant factual blunders in areas I do know about, I'm more likely to dismiss them across the board - even in areas I lack the ability to judge.

Maybe I'm throwing the baby out with the bathwater.  I guess we'll see in about two weeks when he claims Europe, China, and Russia will all collapse, international shipping will grind to a halt, and society will collapse everywhere but India.

Ben

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Re: War in Eastern Europe, what's it good for ....
« Reply #3359 on: February 10, 2025, 04:18:25 PM »
Fair or not, when someone is so overconfidently authoritative, I may nod along for a while, but when I catch them making significant factual blunders in areas I do know about, I'm more likely to dismiss them across the board - even in areas I lack the ability to judge.

Well said, and exactly where I am after watching some of his videos. Especially on the "overconfidently authorative", which is another way of saying:

https://youtu.be/prVxatFIqRk
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WLJ

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Re: War in Eastern Europe, what's it good for ....
« Reply #3360 on: February 14, 2025, 12:32:02 PM »
Drone hit the Chernobyl containment shell
Fingers pointing in all directions

A drone strike at Chernobyl has raised Ukraine's nuclear ghosts. What are the dangers?
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/wires/ap/article-14398851/A-drone-strike-Chernobyl-raised-Ukraines-nuclear-ghosts-What-dangers.html
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“The Party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command.”
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Ben

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Re: War in Eastern Europe, what's it good for ....
« Reply #3361 on: February 19, 2025, 03:51:37 PM »
"I'm a foolish old man that has been drawn into a wild goose chase by a harpy in trousers and a nincompoop."

MechAg94

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Re: War in Eastern Europe, what's it good for ....
« Reply #3362 on: February 19, 2025, 04:15:33 PM »
I try to look at who he is aiming this stuff at.  I get the impression he is telling Europe that if they want to keep the war going, they can, but we are going to try to end it.  I think it was last week the British PM talked about putting British soldiers on the ground in Ukraine, but I think he was referring to a force to maintain "peace". 
“It is much more important to kill bad bills than to pass good ones.”  ― Calvin Coolidge

Ben

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Re: War in Eastern Europe, what's it good for ....
« Reply #3363 on: February 19, 2025, 04:35:56 PM »
It could also be part of what happens when the pendulum has swung too far in one direction. For the last four years, the Biden admin only had talks with Ukraine, and left Russia out. This is likely a way to show Russia that they have an actual seat at the negotiation table, while telling Zelensky that his Hollywood star days are over and that he's no longer the favorite son who gets whatever he wants.
"I'm a foolish old man that has been drawn into a wild goose chase by a harpy in trousers and a nincompoop."

De Selby

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Re: War in Eastern Europe, what's it good for ....
« Reply #3364 on: February 19, 2025, 05:33:36 PM »
Interesting Trump statement:

https://x.com/realDonaldTrump/status/1892242622623699357/photo/1

He’s applying common sense and the perspective of what’s in it for average American voters to foreign policy. That’s an incredibly radical stance in foreign policy circles. Speaking in plain and frank terms about the issue to voters is how he can change policy without getting politically barbecued.
"Human existence being an hallucination containing in itself the secondary hallucinations of day and night (the latter an insanitary condition of the atmosphere due to accretions of black air) it ill becomes any man of sense to be concerned at the illusory approach of the supreme hallucination known as death."

De Selby

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Re: War in Eastern Europe, what's it good for ....
« Reply #3365 on: February 19, 2025, 05:35:47 PM »
It could also be part of what happens when the pendulum has swung too far in one direction. For the last four years, the Biden admin only had talks with Ukraine, and left Russia out. This is likely a way to show Russia that they have an actual seat at the negotiation table, while telling Zelensky that his Hollywood star days are over and that he's no longer the favorite son who gets whatever he wants.

The points he’s making about Ukraine’s undemocratic government and the fact that it never had a chance in the war without US backing are not posturing, they’re likely just a plain English version of his briefing.

What he’s doing is rightly calling this out as a war for special interests, not the noble defense of democracy many have tried to make it be.
"Human existence being an hallucination containing in itself the secondary hallucinations of day and night (the latter an insanitary condition of the atmosphere due to accretions of black air) it ill becomes any man of sense to be concerned at the illusory approach of the supreme hallucination known as death."

Ben

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Re: War in Eastern Europe, what's it good for ....
« Reply #3366 on: February 28, 2025, 03:28:58 PM »
This meeting seems to have gone very well.  =)

https://twitter.com/i/status/1895529636391743987
"I'm a foolish old man that has been drawn into a wild goose chase by a harpy in trousers and a nincompoop."

WLJ

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Re: War in Eastern Europe, what's it good for ....
« Reply #3367 on: February 28, 2025, 04:09:41 PM »
Quote
Cillian
@CilComLFC
🇺🇦 BREAKING: Ukrainian MP Oleksandr Dubinsky just called for an Emergency Session of Ukraine’s Parliament to initiate IMPEACHMENT Proceedings against President Zelensky after the Oval Office shouting match.

This is HUGE. Zelensky’s Regime is collapsing in real time.

https://x.com/CilComLFC/status/1895562770348982370

 [popcorn]
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― George Orwell, 1984

“Those who believe without reason cannot be convinced by reason.”
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Live Life

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Re: War in Eastern Europe, what's it good for ....
« Reply #3368 on: February 28, 2025, 04:39:40 PM »
This meeting seems to have gone very well.  =)
For 40 minutes, everybody was cordial and looked like a deal was coming together and all Zelensky had to do was remain calm for few more minutes to sign the deal - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S_YtXWVfkJE

But when JD Vance mentioned "Biden", he went off and unpresidential "shouting match" expressed last few minutes will be how he will be remembered likely with MSM playing those few minutes over and over. (And people wondering why ...  ;))

And now, he may face impeachment ... and maybe more as murky war details come to light.

Perhaps there was something that went on between Biden and Zelensky?  And mere mention of Biden triggered him?  Will be interesting how things unfold moving forward and what percolates to the surface ...  Maybe like everyone, Zelensky thought Biden/Harris was going to win the election but dang, Trump won instead. =D [popcorn] [popcorn] [popcorn]
« Last Edit: February 28, 2025, 04:59:52 PM by Live Life »

Ron

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Re: War in Eastern Europe, what's it good for ....
« Reply #3369 on: February 28, 2025, 05:04:38 PM »
That done blowed up real good  :O
For the invisible things of him since the creation of the world are clearly seen, being perceived through the things that are made, even his everlasting power and divinity, that they may be without excuse. Because knowing God, they didn’t glorify him as God, and didn’t give thanks, but became vain in their reasoning, and their senseless heart was darkened. Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools.

Kingcreek

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Re: War in Eastern Europe, what's it good for ....
« Reply #3370 on: February 28, 2025, 05:21:59 PM »
Zelinski appeared in Pennsylvania campaigning for Biden.
Somebody noticed.
Nuff said.
What we have here is failure to communicate.

K Frame

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Re: War in Eastern Europe, what's it good for ....
« Reply #3371 on: February 28, 2025, 06:51:37 PM »
It's looking like Zelensky set the whole mess in motion, but according to most media reports say that Trump launched a vicious surprise attack at the best of his boss, Vlad Putin.
MAGA unto others as you would have them MAGA unto you!

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Ben

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Re: War in Eastern Europe, what's it good for ....
« Reply #3372 on: February 28, 2025, 07:04:09 PM »
Apparently the Ukrainian senior administration is full on attempting to contact and work with US officials to try and fix this. I tend to agree with the analysis that Zelensky really thought that he's still the golden child who goes to the Oscars and that everyone will bow to whatever he says. His senior staff seem to have been more able to read the room.
"I'm a foolish old man that has been drawn into a wild goose chase by a harpy in trousers and a nincompoop."

WLJ

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Re: War in Eastern Europe, what's it good for ....
« Reply #3373 on: February 28, 2025, 07:10:30 PM »
Zelinski appeared in Pennsylvania campaigning for Biden.
Somebody noticed.
Nuff said.

Yeah, that raised quite a few eyebrows
“Liberals claim to want to give a hearing to other views, but then are shocked and offended to discover that there are other views.”
― William F. Buckley

“The Party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command.”
― George Orwell, 1984

“Those who believe without reason cannot be convinced by reason.”
― James Randi

K Frame

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Re: War in Eastern Europe, what's it good for ....
« Reply #3374 on: February 28, 2025, 07:29:16 PM »
Silly Ukrainians...

Trump doesn't love the Ukrainians... He loves the Jews! The disgusting, Nazi Fascist genociding Jews.
MAGA unto others as you would have them MAGA unto you!

Dogs are our link to paradise. They don’t know evil or jealousy or discontent. To sit with a dog on a hillside on a glorious afternoon is to be back in Eden, where doing nothing was not boring—it was peace. — Milan Kundera


The gift which I am sending you is called a dog, and is in fact the most precious and valuable possession of mankind
-- Theodorus Gaza