War in Eastern Europe, what's it good for ....

[Ron]

I'm seeing more and more articles and reports about possible conflict with Russia.

Will they really wag the dog before one of the next couple elections?

It's interesting how the previous administration and the current administration focused on different places as the enemy du jour.

[Ron]

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10403271/US-intelligence-Putin-stage-false-flag-attack-troops-pretext-invade.html

US has intelligence Putin will stage a 'false flag' attack on his OWN troops to set up a pretext to invade Ukraine after talks between the US and Russia collapsed

US officials accused Russia on Friday of planning 'false-flag' attacks to justify invasion of Ukraine

Agents trained in urban warfare and sabotage are preparing to hit Russian proxy forces as first step, they said

It would mimic the Russian playbook used in 2014 when it annexed the Crimean peninsula

Kiev has been on alert since Moscow moved 100,000 troops, missiles and heavy weapons close to its border 

Meanwhile, Ukrainian websites were hacked with the message 'be afraid and expect the worst'

The Kremlin denied it was preparing to launch false-flag attacks, calling the reports 'unfounded'

And Russian foreign minister Sergey Lavrov said Russia had 'run out of patience' with the West

[WLJ]

Watch the news for Polish Ukrainian soldiers attacking a German Russian radio station

[charby]

And it's on ABC evening news.

[WLJ]

On the heels of talk of Sweden joining NATO which I doubt they will.

Sweden drones: Sightings reported over nuclear plants and palace
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-60035446

He refused to give details about the type of drone, but they have been widely described as military-style and as having large wings.

According to the Aftonbladet news site, a drone was seen over the weekend circling the parliament and government buildings, as well as the royal residence Drottningholm Palace. Drones were earlier spotted near Kiruna and Lulea airports.

[Pb]

Well, war with Russia would be about one of the worst things imaginable.  I'm not interested in dying in a nuclear fireball.  I hope Biden isn't that stupid.   

[WLJ]

Finland just ordered a bunch of F-35s last month.

Finland Orders 64 Lockheed F-35 Fighter Jets for $9.4 Billion
https://www.usnews.com/news/world/articles/2021-12-10/lockheed-f-35-jet-wins-finnish-fighter-competition-source

Poland ordered two dozen.

[Nick1911]

Well, war with Russia would be about one of the worst things imaginable.  I'm not interested in dying in a nuclear fireball.  I hope Biden isn't that stupid.   

I would expect a proxy war, with the US funneling money and weapons to Ukrainian insurgents and mercs.  I don't think either the US or Russia really want a war with each other.  That said, regional conflicts lead to WWI without the parties involved really wanting it to, so it can happen.

I'm sure Russia is also acutely aware of just how much they can push the US around without a meaningful response.

[230RN]

I've often said that, except for latter-day politics, we have more culture in common with Russia than any of the other Easterners.

Middle or Far.

But maybe I'm wrong.  Are there any Chinese Christmas ballets?

[WLJ]

Russia has a smaller GDP than S. Korea. Let that sink in for a moment.

[Ben]

Russia has a smaller GDP than S. Korea. Let that sink in for a moment.

Smaller than a whole lot of countries:

https://www.armedpolitesociety.com/index.php?topic=65842.msg1335066#msg1335066

[Ron]

My trust in our governments foreign policy is close to zero.

I don't trust Putin or Russia either.

Going to war over Ukraine would be flat out stupid and not in our best interests.

[WLJ]

UK Sends A.T. Weapons to Ukraine as Russia Masses Forces
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eqcS4RDADpM

[230RN]

I'm talking culturally.  You guys got GDP on the brain.  Of course cultural similarity does not imply non-enemy status for ever 'n ever.  We had a lot in common with Germany, yet had to arm-wrestle them twice.  But at least there were the Christmas Truces.

I agree about the US' stability in this matter.  Looking at the line of succession, we're kinda stuck with self-righteous nincompoops until 2024 (2025).  Let's hope our midterms* put some brakes on the tomfoolery.

Terry

* On "proof:"

There is no proof without evidence.
There is no evidence without investigation.
There is no investigation without suspicion.
But suspicion without proof is paranoia.

They wrapped all that up in a nice little package,right?

[WLJ]

I'm talking culturally.  You guys got GDP on the brain.  Of course cultural similarities does not imply non-enemy status for ever 'n ever.  We had a lot in common with Germany, yet had to arm-wrestle them twice.

My GDP comment was unrelated to yours it just happened to have followed your post
Their military is way out of proportion to their GDP and I wonder how long can they sustain a prolonged war with that kind of GDP before the people back home say enough is enough.

[Ron]

I really don't understand why Russia is upset that they might lose their only seaport on the Black Sea to NATO.

What's the big deal? Why would they look at recruiting Ukraine into NATO as a security threat?

Just because that's their border and is their only access to the Black Sea?

[Ron]

https://buchanan.org/blog/biden-should-declare-nato-membership-closed-158996

[MechAg94]

I really don't understand why Russia is upset that they might lose their only seaport on the Black Sea to NATO.

What's the big deal? Why would they look at recruiting Ukraine into NATO as a security threat?

Just because that's their border and is their only access to the Black Sea?

In a sane world, that should be something that could be negotiated.  I figure Putin wants more. 

[dogmush]

I'm assuming Ron is being sarcastic.

Russia's reasons for wanting influence in the Ukraine, and wanting to limit NATO's are obvious.

[Ron]

I'm assuming Ron is being sarcastic.

Sarcastic? Who? Me?

[MechAg94]

There are some oil/gas pipeline issues at work as well.

[Hawkmoon]

I really don't understand why Russia is upset that they might lose their only seaport on the Black Sea to NATO.

What's the big deal? Why would they look at recruiting Ukraine into NATO as a security threat?

Just because that's their border and is their only access to the Black Sea?

But Russia does not (legally) have any seaports on the Black Sea. But they do have access to the Black Sea. Russia has extensive shoreline on the Sea of Azov, and access from the Sea of Azov to the Black Sea through the Kerch Strait.

And I'm not sure there's much "recruiting" of Ukraine into NATO. It's much more a question of Ukraine wanting very much to join NATO as their protection against Russia (for obvious reasons).

[dogmush]

Possession is 9/10 of the law.  The Crimean Peninsula is in Russia now.  No one is going to force him to give it back, and it can't free itself.

Sevastopol is Russian.

[charby]

There are some oil/gas pipeline issues at work as well.

I have a feeling this this the biggest thing that Russia wants with the Ukraine. Secondly, I think it's agriculture because Ukraine has 25% of the worlds black soil reserves.

[MillCreek]

I have a feeling this this the biggest thing that Russia wants with the Ukraine. Secondly, I think it's agriculture because Ukraine has 25% of the worlds black soil reserves.

Ukraine was the breadbasket of the Soviets for many decades, and Russia has not forgotten this.