Author Topic: War in Eastern Europe, what's it good for ....  (Read 131094 times)

Lennyjoe

  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 2,761
Re: War in Eastern Europe, what's it good for ....
« Reply #2150 on: March 14, 2023, 09:26:15 PM »
Uncle Joe won’t provide any CAP cover for the MQ-9

WLJ

  • friends
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 27,849
  • On Patrol In The Epsilon Eridani System
Re: War in Eastern Europe, what's it good for ....
« Reply #2151 on: March 15, 2023, 09:30:19 AM »
Uncle Joe won’t provide any CAP cover for the MQ-9

They're going to paint them in rainbow colors then tell the Russians it would be hate crime to knock one down. That'll stop them.
« Last Edit: March 15, 2023, 10:00:50 AM by WLJ »
"Sometimes I think the surest sign that intelligent life exists elsewhere in the universe is that none of it has tried to contact us".
- Calvin and Hobbes

WLJ

  • friends
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 27,849
  • On Patrol In The Epsilon Eridani System
Re: War in Eastern Europe, what's it good for ....
« Reply #2152 on: March 16, 2023, 08:20:01 AM »
The Su-27 appears to hit the drone while attempting to do a 2nd? fuel dump pass.
Looks like a Hold My Vodka moment

 USAF Release Footage of MQ-9 Downing
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1snZaKXRtQQ
« Last Edit: March 16, 2023, 08:33:15 AM by WLJ »
"Sometimes I think the surest sign that intelligent life exists elsewhere in the universe is that none of it has tried to contact us".
- Calvin and Hobbes

MillCreek

  • Skippy The Wonder Dog
  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 19,964
  • APS Risk Manager
Re: War in Eastern Europe, what's it good for ....
« Reply #2153 on: March 16, 2023, 09:06:25 AM »
^^^Hey, Yuri, watch this!
_____________
Regards,
MillCreek
Snohomish County, WA  USA


Quote from: Angel Eyes on August 09, 2018, 01:56:15 AM
You are one lousy risk manager.

WLJ

  • friends
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 27,849
  • On Patrol In The Epsilon Eridani System
Re: War in Eastern Europe, what's it good for ....
« Reply #2154 on: March 16, 2023, 10:20:03 AM »
Reports Russian ships in the waters where the drone went down.
Bet good money they'll retrieve it and show it off in Moscow and say they shoot it down over Russia in an attempt to rally the masses.
"Sometimes I think the surest sign that intelligent life exists elsewhere in the universe is that none of it has tried to contact us".
- Calvin and Hobbes

MechAg94

  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 33,622
Re: War in Eastern Europe, what's it good for ....
« Reply #2155 on: March 16, 2023, 10:26:20 AM »
What does the fuel dump do to the drone?  I can make guesses, but I figured one of you would know.
“It is much more important to kill bad bills than to pass good ones.”  ― Calvin Coolidge

WLJ

  • friends
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 27,849
  • On Patrol In The Epsilon Eridani System
Re: War in Eastern Europe, what's it good for ....
« Reply #2156 on: March 16, 2023, 10:34:24 AM »
My guess is stall the engine out by flooding the air intakes with fuel and/or set the engine on fire.
"Sometimes I think the surest sign that intelligent life exists elsewhere in the universe is that none of it has tried to contact us".
- Calvin and Hobbes

Lennyjoe

  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 2,761
Re: War in Eastern Europe, what's it good for ....
« Reply #2157 on: March 16, 2023, 06:56:46 PM »
I watched the classified videos yesterday and there were multiple attempts to saturate with fuel to try and bring it down before the SU made contact.


RoadKingLarry

  • friends
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 21,841
Re: War in Eastern Europe, what's it good for ....
« Reply #2158 on: March 16, 2023, 07:08:20 PM »
I think the drones need a stout, remoted operated, self destruct option.
If ye love wealth better than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, go home from us in peace. We ask not your counsels or your arms. Crouch down and lick the hands which feed you. May your chains set lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen.

Samuel Adams

Lennyjoe

  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 2,761
Re: War in Eastern Europe, what's it good for ....
« Reply #2159 on: March 16, 2023, 07:16:17 PM »
I think the drones need a stout, remoted operated, self destruct option.

Normal Conops for most drones is to nose dive at max speed towards the surface. 

HankB

  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 16,564
Re: War in Eastern Europe, what's it good for ....
« Reply #2160 on: March 16, 2023, 09:29:51 PM »
Normal Conops for most drones is to nose dive at max speed towards the surface.
A pity the drone didn't nose up into a steep climb a couple of seconds before impact as the Sukhoi was making its final fuel dump pass . . .
Trump won in 2016. Democrats haven't been so offended since Republicans came along and freed their slaves.
Sometimes I wonder if the world is being run by smart people who are putting us on, or by imbeciles who really mean it. - Mark Twain
Government is a broker in pillage, and every election is a sort of advance auction in stolen goods. - H.L. Mencken
Patriotism is supporting your country all the time, and your government when it deserves it. - Mark Twain

Hawkmoon

  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 27,199
Re: War in Eastern Europe, what's it good for ....
« Reply #2161 on: March 16, 2023, 09:52:00 PM »
A pity the drone didn't nose up into a steep climb a couple of seconds before impact as the Sukhoi was making its final fuel dump pass . . .

I thought the exact same thing.
- - - - - - - - - - - - -
100% Politically Incorrect by Design

Lennyjoe

  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 2,761
Re: War in Eastern Europe, what's it good for ....
« Reply #2162 on: March 16, 2023, 10:12:34 PM »
The SU suffered significant damage not as a result of the propeller but from the Ruddervator (semi vertical stabilator) which the Reaper has.

Audio of the Russian pilot after the incident is out there….the jet landed in Crimea

WLJ

  • friends
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 27,849
  • On Patrol In The Epsilon Eridani System
Re: War in Eastern Europe, what's it good for ....
« Reply #2163 on: March 20, 2023, 02:23:38 PM »
Sight seeing?

"Sometimes I think the surest sign that intelligent life exists elsewhere in the universe is that none of it has tried to contact us".
- Calvin and Hobbes

K Frame

  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 44,009
  • I Am Inimical
Re: War in Eastern Europe, what's it good for ....
« Reply #2164 on: March 22, 2023, 12:07:51 PM »
Well this is interesting...

Reports are that Russia is now sending T54 tanks to Ukraine because they are either so short of or have run out of more capable tank.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/ukraine-pictures-show-putin-sending-ancient-t-54-tanks-to-war/ar-AA18Wkpz?ocid=entnewsntp&cvid=dd490bb5d45746fff00b7b7a33e37ab4&ei=125
Carbon Monoxide, sucking the life out of idiots, 'tards, and fools since man tamed fire.

MechAg94

  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 33,622
Re: War in Eastern Europe, what's it good for ....
« Reply #2165 on: March 22, 2023, 12:26:25 PM »
If you just need a bullet proof gun to support infantry, that might work, but it won't have good infrared sights to see very well compared to modern tanks.  It would just fire where it was directed.  Do you think that would be useful? 
“It is much more important to kill bad bills than to pass good ones.”  ― Calvin Coolidge

WLJ

  • friends
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 27,849
  • On Patrol In The Epsilon Eridani System
Re: War in Eastern Europe, what's it good for ....
« Reply #2166 on: March 22, 2023, 12:37:40 PM »
Useful for soaking up anti-tank missiles and mines ahead of the good stuff. Sucks if you're in one though.
"Sometimes I think the surest sign that intelligent life exists elsewhere in the universe is that none of it has tried to contact us".
- Calvin and Hobbes

HankB

  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 16,564
Re: War in Eastern Europe, what's it good for ....
« Reply #2167 on: March 22, 2023, 12:59:34 PM »
Well this is interesting...

Reports are that Russia is now sending T54 tanks to Ukraine because they are either so short of or have run out of more capable tank.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/ukraine-pictures-show-putin-sending-ancient-t-54-tanks-to-war/ar-AA18Wkpz?ocid=entnewsntp&cvid=dd490bb5d45746fff00b7b7a33e37ab4&ei=125
Tank losses to some degree have to equate to tank crew losses (Aside from tank crews that supposedly bailed before their tank was even hit.  ;)  )

If Russia is running short of tanks, they probably have tank crew shortages, too. Wonder what kind of training the "newbies" are getting. Rookies in old hardware won't be very effective against a well-equipped opposing force.
Trump won in 2016. Democrats haven't been so offended since Republicans came along and freed their slaves.
Sometimes I wonder if the world is being run by smart people who are putting us on, or by imbeciles who really mean it. - Mark Twain
Government is a broker in pillage, and every election is a sort of advance auction in stolen goods. - H.L. Mencken
Patriotism is supporting your country all the time, and your government when it deserves it. - Mark Twain

sumpnz

  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 8,304
Re: War in Eastern Europe, what's it good for ....
« Reply #2168 on: March 22, 2023, 01:04:56 PM »
T-54’s are about as effective as modern APC’s.  If even that.

dogmush

  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 13,671
Re: War in Eastern Europe, what's it good for ....
« Reply #2169 on: March 22, 2023, 01:08:43 PM »
If you just need a bullet proof gun to support infantry, that might work, but it won't have good infrared sights to see very well compared to modern tanks.  It would just fire where it was directed.  Do you think that would be useful?

I'm not a Cav guy, but my first blush is not really.  In addition to not having the sights (NV or Thermal) they are unlikely to have decent fire control, their armor is weak, they are likely not very well maintained (so likely to break), no reactive armor, and a main gun that is unlikely to do very well against Ukrainian armor.

They will also take crews, logistics, and fuel that might be better used elsewhere.  The T55B used a 100mm main gun as opposed to the 120mm of the T64 and T72, so there's no ammo interchangeability with what they have in theatre.  They need to push the tanks forward as well as an entirely new parts AND ammunition train to support them.  Russia seems to be OK moving stuff internally but once it gets to the front that's a lot of *expletive deleted*it added to already not stellar forward logistics to field a loud, slow target.

K Frame

  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 44,009
  • I Am Inimical
Re: War in Eastern Europe, what's it good for ....
« Reply #2170 on: March 23, 2023, 07:32:14 AM »
If you just need a bullet proof gun to support infantry, that might work, but it won't have good infrared sights to see very well compared to modern tanks.  It would just fire where it was directed.  Do you think that would be useful? 

Well, given how quickly Ukrainian troops have been killing the more modern tanks, I think the T-54s will be VERY useful.

As Commie Cookers.

You really think that the Russians have even moderately trained crews that will be able to effectively work those T-54s?

Based on what's been seen in the later stages of 2022, the answer to that is a resounding no.

The T-54s, and their crews, are going to die ever faster and in ever increasing numbers.

The way it's going we're going to be seeing T-26 and BT-20 tanks being pulled out of museums and sent to the front any day now.
Carbon Monoxide, sucking the life out of idiots, 'tards, and fools since man tamed fire.

K Frame

  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 44,009
  • I Am Inimical
Re: War in Eastern Europe, what's it good for ....
« Reply #2171 on: March 23, 2023, 07:33:16 AM »
Useful for soaking up anti-tank missiles and mines ahead of the good stuff. Sucks if you're in one though.

Based on assessments by a number of nations, the T-62s and the T-54s are now the "good stuff."

Because what really qualifies as "the Best Russian Stuff" has either been destroyed or it's been pulled back because it's going to be destroyed.

Carbon Monoxide, sucking the life out of idiots, 'tards, and fools since man tamed fire.

K Frame

  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 44,009
  • I Am Inimical
Re: War in Eastern Europe, what's it good for ....
« Reply #2172 on: March 23, 2023, 07:34:01 AM »
Tank losses to some degree have to equate to tank crew losses (Aside from tank crews that supposedly bailed before their tank was even hit.  ;)  )

If Russia is running short of tanks, they probably have tank crew shortages, too. Wonder what kind of training the "newbies" are getting. Rookies in old hardware won't be very effective against a well-equipped opposing force.


Exactly. See my comment about Commie Cookers.
Carbon Monoxide, sucking the life out of idiots, 'tards, and fools since man tamed fire.

WLJ

  • friends
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 27,849
  • On Patrol In The Epsilon Eridani System
Re: War in Eastern Europe, what's it good for ....
« Reply #2173 on: March 23, 2023, 08:49:08 AM »
When is Putin not Putin?

Been seeing rumors of this for a while along with some often somewhat questionable photo evidence and it wouldn't shock me if he is really using body doubles but the idea he is may now be gaining traction in Russia.
I should note Stalin famously use body doubles

Video claiming Putin is using body doubles goes viral on Russian social media as bizarre theory gains momentum in the country
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-11893557/Video-claiming-Putin-using-body-doubles-goes-viral-Russia-bizarre-theory-gains-momentum.html
« Last Edit: March 23, 2023, 09:08:35 AM by WLJ »
"Sometimes I think the surest sign that intelligent life exists elsewhere in the universe is that none of it has tried to contact us".
- Calvin and Hobbes

MillCreek

  • Skippy The Wonder Dog
  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 19,964
  • APS Risk Manager
Re: War in Eastern Europe, what's it good for ....
« Reply #2174 on: March 23, 2023, 09:07:09 AM »
_____________
Regards,
MillCreek
Snohomish County, WA  USA


Quote from: Angel Eyes on August 09, 2018, 01:56:15 AM
You are one lousy risk manager.