War in Eastern Europe, what's it good for ....

[RoadKingLarry]

Calling this an assassination attempt would be akin to calling John Wilkes Booth shooting a rubber band at Lincoln from across the theater a assassination attempt.

Which would have been more violent and extreme than 99% of what went down on Jan-6.

[MechAg94]

This Is What Socialists Don't Tell You About The Economy Of The Soviet Union
Thomas SowellTV
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xq07gyB6yuA

This is a good video on industrialization of Russia under the Czars and Stalin including the role of foreigners in Russian economic development.  IMO, it may explain some of what we see happening with Russian military equipment now. 
I thought it was an interesting point that much of the economic development in Stalin's early 5 year plans was due to capitalists from the West.

[MechAg94]

 Update from Ukraine | Ruzzia Starts the massive evacuation | They are in Panic
Denys Davydov
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s8l44bxVND0

pro-Ukrainian, but information. 

[WLJ]

Update from Ukraine | Ruzzia Starts the massive evacuation | They are in Panic
Denys Davydov
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s8l44bxVND0

pro-Ukrainian, but information.

Wouldn't shock me one bit if the Russian troops are for the most part completely demoralized

[Hawkmoon]

Wouldn't shock me one bit if the Russian troops are for the most part completely demoralized

As well they should be.

There's an interesting parallel here to the Argentinian invasion of the Falkland Islands. The Argies also had a lot of poorly trained conscripts in their forces, and the Argies also told their troops that they were going to "liberate" the people of the Falklands. The Argie troops were quite surprised to find that the residents of the Falklands didn't in any way view them as "liberators," and were't happy to see them.

I get the impression that the Russian troops are having a somewhat similar experience in Ukraine. I think they knopw perfectly well that they aren't "liberating" anyone or anything, they are an invasion forcve. True, there are some pro-Russia people in the regions where most of the fightinmg is taking place, but the pro-Russian sentiment is far from universal.

[gunsmith]

test

[K Frame]

Nothing that I can find about a Russian evacuation. Ah, just found something on BBC about it. Apparently pulling out of a small town near a nuke plant went... swimmingly. 

Remember, only you can prevent live Russians!

[WLJ]

Nothing that I can find about a Russian evacuation. Ah, just found something on BBC about it. Apparently pulling out of a small town near a nuke plant went... swimmingly. 

Remember, only you can prevent live Russians!

Found this

A 'mad panic' has swept occupied Ukrainian territories as Russia calls to evacuate 18 settlements in the Zaporizhzhia region, ahead of the awaited Ukrainian offensive.

Ivan Fedorov, the mayor of Melitopol in Zaporizhzhia Oblast, said that the order had caused chaos and five-hour long queues of cars at the checkpoint into Crimea.

UN warns of threat of 'severe nuclear accident' after Putin orders evacuation of town near nuclear power plant captured by Russia in early days of Ukraine invasion
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-12056179/UN-warns-threat-severe-nuclear-accident-Putin-orders-evacuation-Zaporizhzhia.html

Either


a) Trying to scare the Ukrainians off from invading
b) The Russians had a uh-oh and are saying you can have the territory but it may be a little warm.
c) The Russian did it on purpose and are saying you can have the territory but it may be a little warm.

[RocketMan]

Found this

UN warns of threat of 'severe nuclear accident' after Putin orders evacuation of town near nuclear power plant captured by Russia in early days of Ukraine invasion
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-12056179/UN-warns-threat-severe-nuclear-accident-Putin-orders-evacuation-Zaporizhzhia.html

Either


a) Trying to scare the Ukrainians off from invading
b) The Russians had a uh-oh and are saying you can have the territory but it may be a little warm.
c) The Russian did it on purpose and are saying you can have the territory but it may be a little warm.

d) The Russians are falsely claiming there was an uh-oh, trying to fool the Ukes into halting their offensive because the territory may be a little warm.

[WLJ]

d) The Russians are falsely claiming there was an uh-oh, trying to fool the Ukes into halting their offensive because the territory may be a little warm.

Wouldn't (a) cover that?

[RocketMan]

Wouldn't (a) cover that?

Don't you dare question my answer.  I be a hily edumacated perfessunal.   

[K Frame]

Uh oh... apparently Russia's vaunted unkillable hypersonic missiles are... killable.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/for-the-first-time-a-patriot-missile-has-killed-one-of-russia-s-hypersonic-missiles/ar-AA1aTAXj?ocid=entnewsntp&pc=U531&cvid=cf18b2709e8e4917bb1cac2aa754453b&ei=120

[MechAg94]

 Global Currency: The Dollar Ain't Going Nowhere
Zeihan on Geopolitics
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LiR54FPQiCs

He makes some good points about the dollar.  For all its problems, most other currencies have more issues or at least the same issues. 

He made a comment about Russia moving money into Chinese currency and getting screwed over it. 

[WLJ]

He made a comment about Russia moving money into Chinese currency and getting screwed over it.

This is my shocked face

[WLJ]

Reports the Ukrainians breaking through Russian lines around Bakhmut with many Russians deserting their posts.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-12075935/Ukraine-breaking-Russian-lines-Bakhmut-Wagner-chief-admits.html

[K Frame]

Reports the Ukrainians breaking through Russian lines around Bakhmut with many Russians deserting their posts.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-12075935/Ukraine-breaking-Russian-lines-Bakhmut-Wagner-chief-admits.html

I wonder if the Ukrainians are going to break out another Thunder Run...

[cordex]

I am curious about the details of the agreement between Putin and Wagner.

[RocketMan]

I am curious about the details of the agreement between Putin and Wagner.

What agreement are you referring to?  Was it the ammunition supply thing the Wagner chief was bitching about last week?

[cordex]

What agreement are you referring to?  Was it the ammunition supply thing the Wagner chief was bitching about last week?

That's a piece of it, but I mean more broadly speaking. 

They're fighting on behalf of Russia, and I assume they're getting paid a boatload of money to do it in addition to tapping into Russian logistics.  Wagner pay is supposedly significantly higher than Russian army pay.  They're losing a lot of guys, and from what I understand they pay out something like $80,000 to the family of each guy they lose.  Wagner can recruit from prisons and allegedly obtain pardons for service.  Prigozhin regularly and publicly badmouths Russian military leadership but seems to get away with it because he's been somewhat effective at taking ground.  Mercs are technically illegal under Russian law, but they're openly operating with the Russian military to the point of Wagner pilots flying Russian air assets in combat.

Prigozhin denied for years that he was connected to Wagner - including suing people who reported it - but now is on TV in battle rattle publicly leading (for some definitions of "leading" anyway) Wagner troops.

It's just an interesting situation and I think it would be fascinating to learn the details of the agreement.

[HankB]

Maybe Putin should just order wholesale surrender of his troops - holding and provisioning that many POWs would surely stretch Ukrainian resources and supply lines.

[WLJ]

Scary thought for the day.
Don't forget it was Russian troops breaking en masse that finally pushed Russia over the cliff in 1917 (Yes I'm greatly simplifying here)
Imagine the Russian revolution with nukes

[dogmush]

Maybe Putin should just order wholesale surrender of his troops - holding and provisioning that many POWs would surely stretch Ukrainian resources and supply lines.

We're assuming here tha Ukrainian culture is far enough from Russian culture they wouldn't just shoot the prisoners?

Not sure I'd take that bet.

[Ben]

We're assuming here tha Ukrainian culture is far enough from Russian culture they wouldn't just shoot the prisoners?

Not sure I'd take that bet.

This. I'm not sure how the Ukis became the poster children of virtue and honor in war. The only high road they have here is that they were the ones who were invaded. Otherwise, it's the same kind of oligarchs, same crime lords, same culture regarding treatment of an enemy as the Russians.

I mean, Zelensky nationalized their news media and shut down opposition parties. That's not the kind of government we normally root for (unless there's something in it for us, as with any number of Central American and Middle Eastern leaders we've helped install in the past).

[cordex]

We have discussed videos purporting to show Ukrainians shooting prisoners early in this conflict.  Maybe they’re doing less of that now that they have to play mediagenic for the western military support.

Or maybe not.

[K Frame]

"I'm not sure how the Ukis became the poster children of virtue and honor in war."

They're not.

But in this case they're the little guy who's standing up to the bigger guy and who is punching FAR above their weight class.

As I've said repeatedly in this thread, I have a burning hatred of Russia and things Russian. Not entirely logical, I'll admit, but I've always been that way. I guess growing up as a patriotic American during the Cold War and, especially, the Reagan 80s? Who knows.

But, to my mind, Putin is really nothing more than a modernized version of Josef Stalin. I've felt that way since he started to co-opt his way into being a dictator in the late 1990s/early 2000s.

I always felt that Putin's greatest desire (turns out to have been pretty correct) has been to reassemble the Soviet Union and again become a major world power.

The West never stopped looking at Russia as a major world power. They had a large army, a large, supposedly capable Navy, a large air force, and a massive nuclear capability.

I think, however, a lot of people have been very shocked (I know I have been) at just how incompetent and ineffective the Russian military has been, how badly a small nation has savaged it, and just how pervasive the corruption rot has been.

Yeah, the Ukrainians probably aren't that much different than the Russians they're fighting, but as long as they're killing Russians and making Putin look like a fool, I'm happy.

Because remember... Only YOU can prevent live Russians.