Raylan is Back

[Ben]

Starts tonight. I've suspended both my Youtube TV and Hulu, but will reactivate Hulu in a month and then binge the whole thing. Here's the opening scene:

https://youtu.be/-JnpyNsWNqo

[Big Hairy Bee]

First two episodes were excellent.  I didn't realize the kid is Olyphant's actual daughter.

[K Frame]

Got my DVR set up to record the series. It pulled the first two episodes, I'll start watching them tonight, I think.

[Ben]

Well, I'm only one episode in, but I do not have high hopes. The first couple of minutes were Raylan being Raylan, but the rest of the episode was almost like Raylan being a background character in a "we hate whitey" bigot-fest. If they made the episode and switched black hate for the white hate, there would be calls to lock them up for hate crimes. Raylan is coming off as timid here.

Also, the lead bad guy is just too psycho over the top. In real life, a good guy with a gun would have just shot him and been done with it. There is just no "purpose" to him or the other bad guys, if that makes any sense. Not at all like Boyd Crowder or Mags Bennett, who at least seemed to have a purpose for being bad guys.

I'll stick it out for a few more episodes, but it's not looking great.

[cordex]

I’m five episodes in.

It gets worse.

[Big Hairy Bee]

The problem is they put Raylan in a non-Raylan story.

[K Frame]

Well, I'm only one episode in, but I do not have high hopes. The first couple of minutes were Raylan being Raylan, but the rest of the episode was almost like Raylan being a background character in a "we hate whitey" bigot-fest. If they made the episode and switched black hate for the white hate, there would be calls to lock them up for hate crimes. Raylan is coming off as timid here.

Also, the lead bad guy is just too psycho over the top. In real life, a good guy with a gun would have just shot him and been done with it. There is just no "purpose" to him or the other bad guys, if that makes any sense. Not at all like Boyd Crowder or Mags Bennett, who at least seemed to have a purpose for being bad guys.

I'll stick it out for a few more episodes, but it's not looking great.

Yeah, I've got to say that I largely agree with you. It's interesting, but it's just not grabbing my attention or interest in the same way that Justified did, especially season 2 of Justified.

[cordex]

The problem is they put Raylan in a non-Raylan story.

They also didn't write him like Raylan.

I rewatched all the seasons of the first Justified before starting this one and ... eh.

I get that they're trying to show Raylan as older and with different priorities, but so far the character doesn't seem so much matured as lobotomized.

[Ben]

I get that they're trying to show Raylan as older and with different priorities, but so far the character doesn't seem so much matured as lobotomized.

Again, only one episode in, but this rings true. Something like the scene where he stops the cops from using the battering ram on the front door and just turns the knob instead is a mature and "experienced" Raylan. The other scenes (which seemed like most of them) are almost making Raylan a secondary character that they use to interact with and highlight the main character.

I was also thinking that the primary bad guy here, would, in Justified, be one of the bit part "gun thugs" (or perhaps red shirts) that would show up just so Raylan had somebody to shoot. An irritant quickly taken care of in Justified.

[dogmush]

Yeah, We turned it off halfway through episode 3 or 4.  It just wasn't keeping our interest, nad our main complaint was the bad guys sucked compared to Justified v1. I agree with Ben, the little twerp guy in tighty whiteies would have been shot pretty quick in Harlan.

[K Frame]

Just watched a bunch of highlights and recaps of Justified season 2.

Oh my God Margo Martindale was so freaking brilliant as Mas Bennett.

[AZRedhawk44]

They also didn't write him like Raylan.

I rewatched all the seasons of the first Justified before starting this one and ... eh.

I get that they're trying to show Raylan as older and with different priorities, but so far the character doesn't seem so much matured as lobotomized.

The villain isn't charismatic like Walton Goggins.

There haven't been any tense quick-draw shootouts.

Raylan allowed Sammy Tonin of the Detroit Mob to hit his rival, on an airport taxi way, right after Raylan got done talking to him.  Raylan would not mind the Armenian Mob taking out the main villain in this new show.

The daughter (Oliphant's daughter) is annoying AF.  She has that "I'm only 6 years old" voice despite being 15-ish.  And they had her parrot that white-hate garbage.  Shipping her off back to Florida was the best thing to happen to the show.  Especially since Raylan didn't gun down the villain in the hotel restaurant while he's sitting there next to his daughter, taunting/threatening him and her.  Haven't finished yet, about 2/3 through. 

Raylan was engaging because he had a familiar environment; his home town.  He'd take outsiders that want to do things the official way, and show them the Kentucky way.  His nemesis was someone he had respect for, because he "dug coal together."  Without that familiarity and without his swagger and attitude, this is just a CSI style show.

[cordex]

Raylan allowed Sammy Tonin of the Detroit Mob to hit his rival, on an airport taxi way, right after Raylan got done talking to him.  Raylan would not mind the Armenian Mob taking out the main villain in this new show.

He was forced into the corner on with the Detroit mob stuff, it seriously impacted his relationship with Art because he wasn't able to lie about it, and the Armenian mob is apparently willing to go after innocents to get to the bad guy.  I can see him making a more conservative play later in life.

I'm not through the season ... and I'm not on track to finish it any time soon ... but exploring Raylan's existing connections to Detroit could have been interesting, but like Ben said, they seem to be really interested in just using Raylan to drag an existing fanbase into a non-Raylan story.

The daughter (Oliphant's daughter) is annoying AF.  She has that "I'm only 6 years old" voice despite being 15-ish.  And they had her parrot that white-hate garbage.  Shipping her off back to Florida was the best thing to happen to the show.

For sure.

Raylan's love interest was a bit of a surprise.  Definitely not his normal type.

[HankB]

Watched the final episode for "this season" . . . the way it ended it looks like there might be another season in the works with the return of an old friend.

(I still have a hard time regarding a run of less than 10 episodes of any program as a "season.") 

My final take: There were too many episodes that included parts where I said "They wouldn't do things that way." Taken as a whole, it suffers by comparison to the original series.

[Ben]

Watched the final episode for "this season" . . . the way it ended it looks like there might be another season in the works with the return of an old friend.

What? Another cracker? That's too many crackers!

[Angel Eyes]

The most interesting part of the series was the last 15 minutes of the last episode.

[cordex]

The most interesting part of the series was the last 15 minutes of the last episode.

Was that 15 minutes worth watching the rest of it?

[Ben]

So I just finished all episodes. It wasn't as bad as the first episode led me to believe, but it just wasn't up to par, and I learned why you guys were calling him tighty whitey. Ugh.

I was kinda wondering if the writers were Walking Dead fans, because they gave the dipshit bad guy the "Negan shield", where there are a hundred opportunities to end the bad guy, but nobody takes them.

I will say that contrary to a couple of posts here, and 99% of the posts on IMDB, the daughter stuff didn't bother me that much. They could have left her out, but then Raylan had family problems in Justified as well.

On that last 15 minutes, it would almost be better if that was just a "what if?" and there was no second season focusing on that. I have to say that Justified had one of the better ending episodes to a series, and I'd hate to see these writers screw that up.

[Devonai]

I enjoyed it, for what it was. Timothy Olyphant was definitely sleepwalking through the series and had none of the Raylan charm or pluck we're used to. For that, it was disappointing. You could have replaced him with a totally generic marshal and have had the same show.

It is encouraging to see the way the series ended. Let's go back to another season of Raylan being himself.

[Ben]

You could have replaced him with a totally generic marshal and have had the same show.

I guess he replaced the main character in the written story. I wonder what that character was like and if they tried to write some of that into Raylan for the story?

[Angel Eyes]

Was that 15 minutes worth watching the rest of it?

Depends.  City Primeval wasn't bad (actually fairly good compared to most television dramas).  It just didn't hold up to the original series.

[Devonai]

I guess he replaced the main character in the written story. I wonder what that character was like and if they tried to write some of that into Raylan for the story?

I checked Wikipedia, and the novel's main character was Detective Raymond Cruz, a guest character in this season and an established Elmore Leonard character. I'm not familiar with the novel, but it's not much of a stretch to see how trying to pigeon-hole Givens into Cruz's role could have been the problem.

[cordex]

Finally made myself finish it.  Whatever.

Depends.  City Primeval wasn't bad (actually fairly good compared to most television dramas).  It just didn't hold up to the original series.

If you say so.  I don't watch much TV these days but if you're right then it must be a sea of trash.

Absent the connection to the original series I doubt I would have bothered to watch it (which was, of course, the point) but it's hard for me to separate the story from the character, and the character was entirely wasted on this story.  If the story wasn't written for Raylan they shouldn't have stuck him in it.  Leave Raylan to his own stories.

[Ben]

I don't watch much TV these days but if you're right then it must be a sea of trash.

It is. I have been cancelling or suspending almost all my streaming services because each of them has like 50,000 shows and movies, releasing a dozen new series or movies a week, and I found myself literally spending over 30 minutes scrolling for something to watch before just turning the TV off or rewatching an episode of Justified, Arrested Development, or Firefly for like the 100th time. It's a big crapfest of GenZ DEI garbage.

[Cliffh]

It is. I have been cancelling or suspending almost all my streaming services because each of them has like 50,000 shows and movies, releasing a dozen new series or movies a week, and I found myself literally spending over 30 minutes scrolling for something to watch before just turning the TV off or rewatching an episode of Justified, Arrested Development, or Firefly for like the 100th time. It's a big crapfest of GenZ DEI garbage.

We just switched over to streaming services, and that's what we're finding.  Spend too much time searching for something to watch, then end up watching reruns.