How should the west respond to Ukraine?

[Ben]

I'm always trying to find visualizations of footprints for nuclear, solar, and wind for the same output. I haven't found any, but plenty of text descriptions, such as:

Wind farms require up to 360 times as much land area to produce the same amount of electricity as a nuclear energy facility, a Nuclear Energy Institute analysis has found. Solar photovoltaic (PV) facilities require up to 75 times the land area.

For 1000 megawatts:

Nuclear = 1.3 sq mi
Solar = 45-75 sq mi
Wind = 260-360 sq mi

Solar and wind vary due to available sunlight and wind at various locations. I was actually surprised at solar - I would have thought it would be much closer to wind. Nevertheless, the footprints are huge, and certainly destroy a lot more habitat than a nuke plant.

https://www.nei.org/news/2015/land-needs-for-wind-solar-dwarf-nuclear-plants

This also goes back to my griping that solar should not be a centralized source for power distribution, but rather a distributed power source for individuals or communities. Roofs already have a footprint that you can stick panels on top of where you can locally create and store your power, rather than getting it from a ginormous solar farm somewhere that requires all kinds of distribution infrastructure.

[Ron]

Poland punts, gives the ball to the USA and Germany.

"The authorities of the Republic of Poland, after consultations between the President and the Government, are ready to deploy – immediately and free of charge – all their MIG-29 jets to the Ramstein Air Base and place them at the disposal of the Government of the United States of America."

https://www.zerohedge.com/geopolitical/poland-announces-all-its-mig-29-jets-will-be-transferred-us-send-ukraine

[fifth_column]

Here's a couple Ben:

Wind vs nuclear

Wind and solar vs Nuclear

[Ben]

Here's a couple Ben:

Wind vs nuclear

Wind and solar vs Nuclear

Thanks!

[cordex]

The energy sector has a lot of money, and can buy a lot of policy.

Politics makes for strange bedfellows.
Bootleggers and Baptists, right?

[Ron]

https://www.theepochtimes.com/poland-offer-to-send-fighter-jets-is-not-tenable-pentagon_4325392.html?

The Pentagon said late on March 8 that Poland’s offer to send fighter jets is not tenable, after Poland’s Foreign Ministry announced it would deploy MiG-29 jets to the U.S. Air Force’s Ramstein Air Base in Germany “and place them at the disposal of the Government of the United States of America.”

The deployment of the 28 MiG-29s would be immediate and free of charge, the Foreign Ministry added. “At the same time, Poland requests the United States to provide us with used aircraft with corresponding operational capabilities,” it said in a statement.

The Polish government also called on other NATO member nations that own MiG-29 planes to transfer their planes to the United States.

In a statement late on March 8, Pentagon press secretary John F. Kirby said: “The prospect of fighter jets ‘at the disposal of the Government of the United States of America’ departing from a U.S./NATO base in Germany to fly into airspace that is contested with Russia over Ukraine raises serious concerns for the entire NATO alliance.

“It is simply not clear to us that there is a substantive rationale for it. We will continue to consult with Poland and our other NATO allies about this issue and the difficult logistical challenges it presents, but we do not believe Poland’s proposal is a tenable one,” he said.

[Hawkmoon]

Poland punts, gives the ball to the USA and Germany.

https://www.zerohedge.com/geopolitical/poland-announces-all-its-mig-29-jets-will-be-transferred-us-send-ukraine

And the U.S. punts -- or something.

https://apnews.com/article/russia-ukraine-europe-poland-nato-5724ff192113703d829024dc4410664e

I don't understand why Poland would have to deliver the planes to the U.S. base in Germany. Poland has about a 200-mile border shared directly with Ukraine. Poland could just fly the planes directly across the border to Ukraine -- or allow Ukrainian pilots to come to Poland to pick them up.

The sticky wicket (I suspect) is really that the U.S. doesn't want to be seen providing replacement aircraft to Poland. But there must be some international arms dealer who can arrange for Poland to buy some used American warplanes at the right price, and have them delivered without the U.S. leaving visible fingerprints on the deal.

I don't get it.

[AZRedhawk44]

And the U.S. punts -- or something.

https://apnews.com/article/russia-ukraine-europe-poland-nato-5724ff192113703d829024dc4410664e

I don't understand why Poland would have to deliver the planes to the U.S. base in Germany. Poland has about a 200-mile border shared directly with Ukraine. Poland could just fly the planes directly across the border to Ukraine -- or allow Ukrainian pilots to come to Poland to pick them up.

There's this war thing going on in Ukraine.  Russia has air superiority.  If Polish pilots fly aircraft into Ukraine, Russian pilots may intercept them and engage them.  If Russians don't intercept in the air, they may target the air field with artillery or missiles while the planes are down.

The trick is getting the aircraft into Ukrainian hands somewhere neutral, and out of reach of Russia, which is hard to do.

Aside from that, the Mig-29 isn't much of a match for current Russian fighter craft.  Two dozen Mig-29's won't make a dent in Russia's front.  MANPADs and Javelins, on the other hand, are far more effective and easier to get into the right hands.

[Ron]

Russia said they would consider the movement of those jets into the war theater an act of war.

Poland ropes in both Germany and the USA by suggesting they deliver the jets to Germany for the USA to do whatever they will. I don't think that would get Poland off the hook with Russia but it does relieve them from being the country that dragged NATO into war. They put that hot potato where it belongs, with the USA.

You guys do realize nobody wants war with Russia except the lunatics in the Biden administration?

https://theconservativetreehouse.com/blog/2022/03/08/blinken-and-biden-fold-pentagon-rejects-poland-offer-for-united-states-to-start-world-war-iii/#more-229503

[AZRedhawk44]

You guys do realize nobody wants war with Russia except the lunatics in the Biden administration?

Seeing a lot of neocons also wanting it, on bookfeces.

[Nick1911]

Russia said they would consider the movement of those jets into the war theater an act of war.

They keep saying that about things.  And yet, when those things happen, crickets.  Hyperbole. 

[Angel Eyes]

They keep saying that about things.  And yet, when those things happen, crickets.  Hyperbole. 

Yeah, it's hyperbole ... until it isn't.

[Nick1911]

Yeah, it's hyperbole ... until it isn't.

Hazard of being the boy who cried wolf.

Also, letting a country just do whatever it wants if it makes threats doesn't end well either.

[French G.]

Hazard of being the boy who cried wolf.

Also, letting a country just do whatever it wants if it makes threats doesn't end well either.

That's what I see as one of Russia's desperate outs. They pick a western ally that is non nuclear  and make a city glow, threaten to make the whole world glow if there is a response.

[Ron]

Seeing a lot of neocons also wanting it, on bookfeces.

I stand corrected, you are absolutely correct. The neocons are full speed ahead and onboard with the Biden admin. on this issue.

[Ben]

I stand corrected, you are absolutely correct. The neocons are full speed ahead and onboard with the Biden admin. on this issue.

It seems that 75% of the country wants us to do stuff that vastly increases the probability of war. I mean, I posted that NYC artists of all people were pushing for things they don't understand. It's almost like how so many people jumped on BLM and supported antifa because it was a popular thing to do that you could talk about at wine and cheese parties, but who were completely insulated from the effects of what they supported.

I notice that a lot of US entities, across the political spectrum, are full on into cancel culture against Russia. Fast food, hotel, and other businesses "boycotting" Russia as an example. I'm not sure that does anything but get the Russian people - especially those who were against Putin's plans - turned into if not Putin supporters, certainly Russia supporters.

This cancel culture stuff does little to hurt the Russian government. It certainly hits Russian citizens, but probably not as much as these entities think it does. They seem to think it will upset Russians the same as it would Americans, who freak out if they can't get on the internet for 20 minutes, or can't get a pizza delivered. Last year I got into watching these Youtube videos on small town Russian life, made by very amateur youtubers just wanting to show everyday life. While certainly they have modern conveniences, they also do 1920s type stuff like heat their homes with wood. I don't think they are going to crumble in tears if they can't get the Dominoes. They might be inclined to think the US sucks though, even though beforehand, from the videos I've seen, many of them thought of the US as cool.

[Ron]

The pivot from Covid-19 herstaria to Russia Russia Russia warmongering was instantaneous and flawlessly executed.

The dirt people NPC's are fully under the control of TPTB cloud people. Welcome to the machine.

[WLJ]

The pivot from Covid-19 herstaria to Russia Russia Russia warmongering was instantaneous and flawlessly executed.

The dirt people NPC's are fully under the control of TPTB cloud people.

Normal news cycle. The media got bored with COVID a while back but had nothing else to jump on other than stuff that made Biden look bad and they sure as heck wasn't going to do that. Russia/Ukraine gave them something to jump on than doesn't hurt Biden and the dems in their opinion in a long time.
 

[Ron]

Normal news cycle. The media got bored with COVID a while back but had nothing else to jump on other than stuff that made Biden look bad and they sure as heck wasn't going to do that. Russia/Ukraine gave them something to jump on than doesn't hurt Biden and the dems in their opinion.

The normal news cycle is sophisticated conditioning and regime propaganda. It's not journalism.

You can wake up if you want. Now is a good time to reflect on truth vs psyops. Don't believe liars.

For some reason the regime needs our consent to become NPC's (non-player characters ie programmed drones) , it has to be a willing suspension of disbelief, self delusion, don't do that.

Rule of thumb, everything the media and government says is to be doubted and questioned.

They are no more trustworthy than the CCP or Kremlin. You know this of course, who doesn't?

[WLJ]

The normal news cycle is sophisticated conditioning and regime propaganda. It's not journalism.

You can wake up if you want. Now is a good time to reflect on truth vs psyops. Don't believe liars.

huh?
Kind of what I said just without all the extra baggage

[Ron]

huh?
Kind of what I said just without all the extra baggage

That's not how I read what you wrote. It's good you know they are always lying.

[WLJ]

I think you may want to unwind a little, I think you may be automatically assuming any reply is a counter argument to yours. Relax a little.

[Ron]

I think you may want to unwind a little, I think you may be automatically assuming any reply is a counter argument to yours. Relax a little.

The dude abides