Author Topic: How was your flight?  (Read 18995 times)

BobR

  • Just a pup compared to a few old dogs here!
  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 7,555
Re: How was your flight?
« Reply #175 on: September 10, 2024, 03:45:02 PM »
I just want to see pictures of the other plane. It takes a bit of force to detach a tail like that.

bob

WLJ

  • friends
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 31,992
  • On Patrol In The Epsilon Eridani System
Re: How was your flight?
« Reply #176 on: September 10, 2024, 03:59:05 PM »
I just want to see pictures of the other plane. It takes a bit of force to detach a tail like that.

bob

I'm looking but so far only a fuzzy video image and not as much as you would think.
Had to take a screen shot

« Last Edit: September 10, 2024, 04:11:34 PM by WLJ »
"Sometimes I think the surest sign that intelligent life exists elsewhere in the universe is that none of it has tried to contact us".
- Calvin and Hobbes

“The Party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command.”
― George Orwell, 1984

“Those who believe without reason cannot be convinced by reason.”
― James Randi

dogmush

  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 14,641
Re: How was your flight?
« Reply #177 on: September 10, 2024, 07:10:44 PM »
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xBV8aDIO1bg

Radio Coms.

It sounds like Ground should have held the A350 short of E3 till the CRJ was on the runway.  Assuming the A350 was actually on the centerline like they said.  It also sounds like the CRJ was stationary, holding short of 8R when they got hit, and the A350 came from their starboard rear quarter. Not a lot of visibility there, and even if they saw it they can't just pull onto an active runway to dodge a rogue Airbus. 

Northwoods

  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 8,647
  • Formerly sumpnz
Re: How was your flight?
« Reply #178 on: September 10, 2024, 07:34:11 PM »
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xBV8aDIO1bg

Radio Coms.

It sounds like Ground should have held the A350 short of E3 till the CRJ was on the runway.  Assuming the A350 was actually on the centerline like they said.  It also sounds like the CRJ was stationary, holding short of 8R when they got hit, and the A350 came from their starboard rear quarter. Not a lot of visibility there, and even if they saw it they can't just pull onto an active runway to dodge a rogue Airbus. 

Yep.  A350 pilot error and ground controller error.
Formerly sumpnz

Hawkmoon

  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 27,744
Re: How was your flight?
« Reply #179 on: September 10, 2024, 08:47:18 PM »
I expect Mentour Pilot, 74Gear, and/or Juan Browne to cover this incident on YouTube rather soon.

In fact -- here's Brownie now: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U95S6dQSga8
- - - - - - - - - - - - -
100% Politically Incorrect by Design

WLJ

  • friends
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 31,992
  • On Patrol In The Epsilon Eridani System
Re: How was your flight?
« Reply #180 on: September 11, 2024, 07:56:12 AM »
Video of the collision
Sorry but it appears to be someone holding a camera to a monitor but the best I could find at the moment.

https://x.com/fl360aero/status/1833607953074597910
« Last Edit: September 11, 2024, 11:31:32 AM by WLJ »
"Sometimes I think the surest sign that intelligent life exists elsewhere in the universe is that none of it has tried to contact us".
- Calvin and Hobbes

“The Party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command.”
― George Orwell, 1984

“Those who believe without reason cannot be convinced by reason.”
― James Randi

Hawkmoon

  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 27,744
Re: How was your flight?
« Reply #181 on: September 11, 2024, 11:27:41 AM »
Singapore Airlines emergency: Pilot's disturbing theory on plane's 6,000ft plunge - as eight Aussies are put in hospital following horror air incident that killed a British man
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-13444903/Singapore-Airlines-emergency-pilot-disturbing-theory-plunge-eight-Australians-hospital.html



The man's an idiot. His further statements about that area being known for turbulance refutes his own argument.

Quote
'It's regarded as an exceptionally well-built machine in the piloting and aviation fraternity and for turbulence to have had this effect on a triple-seven it must have been really quite severe,' he told Sky News.

One of my cousins (now deceased) was a career flight attendant for a major U.S. airline. Years and years ago (at least 30 years, I believe) she was seriously injured in just such an incident. She was out of work on convalescent leave for the better part of a year, and she had constant back pain even after returning to work. She eventually had to take an early retirement because of the effects of her injuries.

She was on a 747.

It doesn't matter how big or "sturdy" an aircraft is. When it hits a hole in the air, it drops. The good news is that the wings didn't come off when the plane hit the bottom of the hole in the air.
- - - - - - - - - - - - -
100% Politically Incorrect by Design

Hawkmoon

  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 27,744
Re: How was your flight?
« Reply #182 on: September 11, 2024, 11:33:44 AM »
Video of the collision
Sorry but it appears to be someone holding a camera to a monitor but the best I could find at the moment.

https://x.com/fl360aero/status/1833607953074597910

I guess it was a collision -- it's a collision if I drive my car into a tree.

But to say that the two aircraft "collided" is a bit misleading, IMHO. That implies that they were both moving and that they ran into each other.
- - - - - - - - - - - - -
100% Politically Incorrect by Design

WLJ

  • friends
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 31,992
  • On Patrol In The Epsilon Eridani System
Re: How was your flight?
« Reply #183 on: September 11, 2024, 11:36:09 AM »
I guess it was a collision -- it's a collision if I drive my car into a tree.

But to say that the two aircraft "collided" is a bit misleading, IMHO. That implies that they were both moving and that they ran into each other.

What other word(s) should be used then? "Made contact"?
"Sometimes I think the surest sign that intelligent life exists elsewhere in the universe is that none of it has tried to contact us".
- Calvin and Hobbes

“The Party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command.”
― George Orwell, 1984

“Those who believe without reason cannot be convinced by reason.”
― James Randi

Hawkmoon

  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 27,744
Re: How was your flight?
« Reply #184 on: September 11, 2024, 02:49:16 PM »
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xBV8aDIO1bg

Radio Coms.

It sounds like Ground should have held the A350 short of E3 till the CRJ was on the runway.  Assuming the A350 was actually on the centerline like they said.  It also sounds like the CRJ was stationary, holding short of 8R when they got hit, and the A350 came from their starboard rear quarter. Not a lot of visibility there, and even if they saw it they can't just pull onto an active runway to dodge a rogue Airbus.

Part of the problem seems to have been that the CRJ was holding, but it stopped about 40 to 50 feet short of the hold line. If they had pulled up to the line, the A350 most likely would have squeaked by (barely).
- - - - - - - - - - - - -
100% Politically Incorrect by Design

Hawkmoon

  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 27,744
Re: How was your flight?
« Reply #185 on: September 11, 2024, 02:54:28 PM »
What other word(s) should be used then? "Made contact"?

"The A350 ran into the CRJ."

Or "collided with ..." Just don't phrase it so it sounds like they were both moving towards each other.
- - - - - - - - - - - - -
100% Politically Incorrect by Design

Northwoods

  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 8,647
  • Formerly sumpnz
Re: How was your flight?
« Reply #186 on: September 11, 2024, 02:55:05 PM »
Part of the problem seems to have been that the CRJ was holding, but it stopped about 40 to 50 feet short of the hold line. If they had pulled up to the line, the A350 most likely would have squeaked by (barely).

Even so, the A350 pilot had the responsibility of ensuring a clear path.  Had the CRJ been at the hold line there would have been adequate clearance.  But that doesn't excuse the A350 pilot from the need to pay attention and stop and radio ground control to ask them to have the CRJ move up.
Formerly sumpnz

WLJ

  • friends
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 31,992
  • On Patrol In The Epsilon Eridani System
Re: How was your flight?
« Reply #187 on: September 11, 2024, 02:58:58 PM »
"The A350 ran into the CRJ."

Or "collided with ..." Just don't phrase it so it sounds like they were both moving towards each other.

Quote
noun

    the act of colliding; a coming violently into contact; crash:

    the collision of two airplanes.
https://www.dictionary.com/browse/collision

And from a legal site
Quote
In legal terms, a collision refers to an accident where a vehicle hits another vehicle, pedestrian, animal, or stationary object like a tree or pole. The key element in this definition is the concept of an ‘accident’, which implies an unforeseen and unplanned event.
https://www.thewilsonpc.com/glossary/what-are-collision-legal-aspects/

"Sometimes I think the surest sign that intelligent life exists elsewhere in the universe is that none of it has tried to contact us".
- Calvin and Hobbes

“The Party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command.”
― George Orwell, 1984

“Those who believe without reason cannot be convinced by reason.”
― James Randi

WLJ

  • friends
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 31,992
  • On Patrol In The Epsilon Eridani System
Re: How was your flight?
« Reply #188 on: September 11, 2024, 03:03:05 PM »
Never mind, you were referring to him using the word collided and I got it crossed up in my head you were criticizing my use of the word collision
« Last Edit: September 11, 2024, 05:01:33 PM by WLJ »
"Sometimes I think the surest sign that intelligent life exists elsewhere in the universe is that none of it has tried to contact us".
- Calvin and Hobbes

“The Party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command.”
― George Orwell, 1984

“Those who believe without reason cannot be convinced by reason.”
― James Randi

Northwoods

  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 8,647
  • Formerly sumpnz
Re: How was your flight?
« Reply #189 on: September 11, 2024, 03:04:26 PM »
In terms of dividing fault, A350 pilot gets the most. Regardless of any clearance given the pilot is responsible for safe operations. And in a ground collision if one is stationary and one is in motion, fault goes mostly to the one in motion.

A good bit of fault, though less than to the A350 pilot, goes to the ground controller. Their whole job is to know where all aircraft are in real time, required separations, and to maintain safe flow of ground traffic.  They should have seen the CRJ holding short of the correct position and told them to pull forward to the holding line.

CRJ pilot gets a small share of the fault for stopping short of where they should have.
Formerly sumpnz

Hawkmoon

  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 27,744
Re: How was your flight?
« Reply #190 on: September 11, 2024, 09:06:24 PM »
Even so, the A350 pilot had the responsibility of ensuring a clear path.  Had the CRJ been at the hold line there would have been adequate clearance.  But that doesn't excuse the A350 pilot from the need to pay attention and stop and radio ground control to ask them to have the CRJ move up.

I don't disagree. And I suspect the A350 pilot knows that, which may explain why in the audio of the incident he immediately announced that he was on the centerline. [Crisis management, Step one: deflect blame.]
- - - - - - - - - - - - -
100% Politically Incorrect by Design