Mar-A-Lago raided and occupied by FBI

[HankB]

I still find it instructive that the .gov has its collective knickers in a twist over some boxes of paper in a closet at Trump's private residence, where nobody had access to them ... but that same .gov hasn't done anything about the fact that Hilary Clinton (who did NOT have final classification/declassification authority) had classified documents on her unsecured, personal server in her home, where hackers from all over the world had access to them.

Mar-A-Lago had a TS/SCI facility built when Trump became POTUS, and of course, Mar-A-Lago (at least the POTUS' residence portion) still has round-th-clock Secret Service protection, too. I'm pretty sure if I tried to clandestinely or forcibly access the documents I'd be sitting in a jail cell right now . . . assuming I even survived the attempt.

[kgbsquirrel]

Mar-A-Lago had a TS/SCI facility built when Trump became POTUS, and of course, Mar-A-Lago (at least the POTUS' residence portion) still has round-th-clock Secret Service protection, too. I'm pretty sure if I tried to clandestinely or forcibly access the documents I'd be sitting in a jail cell right now . . . assuming I even survived the attempt.

Why bother with the cost?  I hear closets and bathrooms are basically SCIFs as they are. 

[HankB]

Why bother with the cost?  I hear closets and bathrooms are basically SCIFs as they are. 

They're good enough for servers, for sure.

[Ron]

Those wiley FBI agents will catch that Trump yet!

[WLJ]

Those wiley FBI agents will catch that Trump yet!

[DittoHead]

It it these documents the FBI is so upset about?
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-trump-russia/trump-says-he-has-declassified-documents-related-to-russia-clinton-email-probes-idUSKBN26S030
I think the FBI has been ignoring or fighting Trump's order to declassify all the documents related to the Russia nonsense and the probe into Clinton's email stuff. I don't recall them ever being released. Perhaps they are worried he has copies of these documents and would release them?

Sorry you fell for it, but Trump just says whatever he wants on Twitter (or "Truth") and doesn't actually mean it.

The president indicated to me that his statements on Twitter were not self-executing declassification orders, and do not required the declassification or release of any particular documents

[Angel Eyes]

[MikeB]

Sorry you fell for it, but Trump just says whatever he wants on Twitter (or "Truth") and doesn't actually mean it.

Fell for what? I posted a link so people would know what I was referring to. The link isn't fake, it's from Reuters. The link you posted shows that Trump intended to declassify all the documents. You can quibble about redactions. I never said a word about redactions. Were the documents actually released? I don't believe they were, but could be wrong hence the question in my post. Maybe try having a discussion instead of assuming you know what someone else is thinking and trying to insult them.

[DittoHead]

Fell for what?

Trump saying one thing on social media and then the opposite behind the scenes.

Were the documents actually released? I don't believe they were, but could be wrong hence the question in my post.

The documents weren't released because the Trump admin argued in court (where it counts) that that his "orders" on Twitter were basically meaningless.

[MikeB]

Trump saying one thing on social media and then the opposite behind the scenes. The documents weren't released because the Trump admin argued in court (where it counts) that that his "orders" on Twitter were basically meaningless.

The document says he gave the attorney general the power to release them. He intended them to be released. Yah know what, it isn’t worth it. I think there is an ignore feature. First time time I ever felt the need to use it. It’s obvious you are more interested in being confrontational and condescending than having a conversation.

[MechAg94]

Trump saying one thing on social media and then the opposite behind the scenes. The documents weren't released because the Trump admin argued in court (where it counts) that that his "orders" on Twitter were basically meaningless.

Most all the comments I see are just speculation as none of us were there.  At this point, I don't think the FBI is any more worthy of trust than Trump's twitter account. 

IMO, if there was hard evidence in the documents seized, they likely would have already been leaked.  Now it is just lawyers arguing in court over classification/declassification details. 

[Ben]

IMO, if there was hard evidence in the documents seized, they likely would have already been leaked. 

This is where I am with pretty much anything the FBI (or ATF or DOJ, etc.) do and say as of now, for anything, not just Trump. If they had irrefutable evidence, they would have presented it instead of playing redaction games or, "We can't release "X" concrete evidence due to security, judicial process, or any other lame excuse we can come up with, but here's oodles of circumstantial stuff that just causes more questions."

I'm getting tired of, "We can't release the primary evidence, but here's some unrelated stuff to rile everybody up."

[WLJ]

Where's the beef?

[bedlamite]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z6hxYoiGeRI

[RoadKingLarry]

 
 
 

[Ron]

The document says he gave the attorney general the power to release them. He intended them to be released. Yah know what, it isn’t worth it. I think there is an ignore feature. First time time I ever felt the need to use it. It’s obvious you are more interested in being confrontational and condescending than having a conversation.

He says he writes for the Bulwork since 2019. He is one of William Kristols neocon bois. When you see nations burning all around you it's their policies reaching their natural conclusions. Looking at how they wrecked the Republican party I would say that was probably the mission all along.

[DittoHead]

He says he writes for the Bulwork since 2019. He is one of William Kristols neocon bois. When you see nations burning all around you it's their policies reaching their natural conclusions. Looking at how they wrecked the Republican party I would say that was probably the mission all along.

You're being too confrontational and condescending!! Where's that ignore feature?
You also overestimate my influence by just a little bit I think. It's really my partners, the lizard people, that deserve most of the credit.

[Ben]

He says he writes for the Bulwork since 2019.

In fairness, I think that might be in his profile because in a 2019 thread where we disagreed on some topic, I was being a smartass and asked him if he wrote for the Bulwark.

[DittoHead]

In fairness, I think that might be in his profile because in a 2019 thread where we disagreed on some topic, I was being a smartass and asked him if he wrote for the Bulwark.

Ben is correct.

[Ron]

You're being too confrontational and condescending!! Where's that ignore feature?
You also overestimate my influence by just a little bit I think. It's really my partners, the lizard people, that deserve most of the credit.

Hello I'm Ron, I spend my time screaming into the void, banging my head against the wall and arguing politics online.

[RocketMan]

Hello I'm Ron, I spend my time screaming into the void, banging my head against the wall and arguing politics online.

It's funny how we all have a similar profile on APS. 

[DittoHead]

they took THREE Trump passports -- his current one, and two expired ones. Supposedly those have since been returned, but what possible justification could they possibly have for taking them in the first place?

They mentioned the passports in the latest filing:

Plaintiff repeatedly claims that his passports were outside the scope of the warrant and improperly seized, and that the government, in returning them, has admitted as much. See D.E. 1 at 2 & n.2; D.E. 28 at 3, 8, 9. These claims are incorrect. Consistent with Attachment B to the search warrant, the government seized the contents of a desk drawer that contained classified documents and governmental records commingled with other documents. The other documents included two official passports, one of which was expired, and one personal passport, which was expired. The location of the passports is relevant evidence in an investigation of unauthorized retention and mishandling of national defense information; nonetheless, the government decided to return those passports in its discretion.

It also makes note that no indication was made about the supposed declassification:

These communications ultimately resulted in the provision of fifteen boxes (hereinafter, the “Fifteen Boxes”) from former President Trump to NARA in January 2022 When producing the Fifteen Boxes, the former President never asserted executive privilege over any of the documents nor claimed that any of the documents in the boxes containing classification markings had been declassified.
...
On June 3, 2022, three FBI agents and a DOJ attorney arrived at the Premises to accept receipt of the materials. In addition to counsel for the former President, another individual was also present as the custodian of records for the former President’s post-presidential office. When producing the documents, neither counsel nor the custodian asserted that the former President had declassified the documents or asserted any claim of executive privilege. Instead, counsel handled them in a manner that suggested counsel believed that the documents were classified: the production included a single Redweld envelope, double-wrapped in tape, containing the documents.

I have the same question as before - If Trump really did declassify all these documents why didn't he ever say so in the months of back forth between NARA/DOJ/himself & his lawyers? If he declassified them in the interest of transparency, why didn't he ever release any of them?

[MechAg94]

Why do you assume the Justice Dept isn't omitting facts that don't help their case? 


Why did they lie and say the White House found out about the raid on twitter?  (that was the press people, not the lawyers.  The changing narrative on this is odd.) 


I heard there was some law that had a provision about barring someone from running for office if they violate classified document laws.  I don't remember the exact wording mentioned, but that was speculated as a reason for pursuing the issue. 

[MikeB]

I heard there was some law that had a provision about barring someone from running for office if they violate classified document laws.  I don't remember the exact wording mentioned, but that was speculated as a reason for pursuing the issue.

There has been talk by pundits about that, I don't recall exactly who, but I've heard it a few times. Mark Levin may have mentioned it. I usually don't listen to him, but sometimes catch a few minutes since he is one the same AM station I sometime listen to in the car. I think maybe Alan Dershowitz may have been on a TV segment I caught saying the same. Many of those pundits say the law wouldn't likely pass constitutional muster since election requirements to be eligible for the office of president are rather explicit in the constitution. They say this law can't override that.

[DittoHead]

Why do you assume the Justice Dept isn't omitting facts that don't help their case? 

It's pretty clear that all the facts aren't available yet. However, to their credit, the DOJ did include the letter from Trump's lawyer preemptively making the case against a warrant as an attachment to the warrant affidavit.

Why did they lie and say the White House found out about the raid on twitter?  (that was the press people, not the lawyers.  The changing narrative on this is odd.)

Because they are liars and that's what liars tend to do. Unfortunately, in modern politics there doesn't seem to be a significant penalty for lying to the media. Hypocrisy either for that matter. The Trump admin seemed to find it funny to lie to the fake news, and then call them on their lies. I think the Biden admin often just lies to get them off their back for a bit, telling them what they think the "best" answer is so can they be done talking. While the Trump admin had outright disdain for the press, the Biden admin seems to see them as an annoyance.