Author Topic: Long Live The Queen  (Read 9697 times)

WLJ

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Re: Long Live The Queen
« Reply #200 on: May 09, 2023, 10:58:13 AM »
Skipping Charles wouldn't have just caused a rift in the family.

It would have caused a Constitutional crisis that likely would have brought the monarchy down. Literally.

There's a mechanism for a reigning monarch to abdicate, which is what Edward VIII did. But there's no mechanism for a reigning monarch to skip over the next hereditary heir to designate someone else to be monarch.

My point is QE would have never even considered it anyway unless maybe C did something catastrophic to change her mind and give her no choice  mechanism in place or not. She wanted the monarchy to give the appearance at least of being as steady as a  rock. Why I never took skipping C talk seriously.
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Hawkmoon

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Re: Long Live The Queen
« Reply #201 on: May 09, 2023, 11:46:06 AM »
Why is King Charles's wife being referred to as Queen Camilla, while the late Queen Elizabeth's husband was merely Prince Phillip, the Queen Consort? As I understand it neither Camilla nor Phillip are/were in the line of succession, so is it some sort of gender-related courtesy thing? Or is it related to Phillip having some kind of royal title of his own from somewhere else?

I have wondered the same thing, and the answer appears to be 'Because."

Phillip was a member of the Greek royal family, but he renounced all that in order to marry Elizabeth. The title of Prince Consort was entirely due to his being married to the queen.
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WLJ

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Re: Long Live The Queen
« Reply #202 on: May 09, 2023, 12:03:27 PM »
In any event they're lucky William is appearing to at least to be far smarter and stable than his brother and the same goes for their respective wives as well.

Indeed. It seems like he was always the "mature" one. Harry did some dumb stuff in his youth, but could have stepped up. It seems his military career and the associated discipline was always very important to him, until he met the shrew. And it's not all her fault. The dude just totally simped for her, which in some ways is weird because I'm sure there was a gaggle of potential princesses out there that were in every way better than a spoiled Hollywood d-lister.

Yeah, mature was the word I was trying to come up with.
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Angel Eyes

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Re: Long Live The Queen
« Reply #203 on: May 09, 2023, 03:34:49 PM »




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K Frame

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Re: Long Live The Queen
« Reply #204 on: May 09, 2023, 05:05:40 PM »
"Why is King Charles's wife being referred to as Queen Camilla, while the late Queen Elizabeth's husband was merely Prince Phillip, the Queen Consort?"

According to something I read some years ago, it's because in British monarchical hierarchy, someone can only become King through direct lineal inheritance, not through marriage.

Ah, here, this article from Time explains it.

https://time.com/5222279/why-prince-philip-wasnt-king/
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K Frame

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Re: Long Live The Queen
« Reply #205 on: May 09, 2023, 05:08:32 PM »
Don't mind him he's just here to finish that chess game

NICE! Going to start calling you Antonius from now on...
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WLJ

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Re: Long Live The Queen
« Reply #206 on: May 09, 2023, 05:50:04 PM »
NICE! Going to start calling you Antonius from now on...

I was wondering if anyone here got the reference.

For those who don't know it's from the movie The Seventh Seal where a man challenges death to a chess game in the hopes of delaying him. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Seventh_Seal


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K Frame

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Re: Long Live The Queen
« Reply #207 on: May 10, 2023, 08:44:17 AM »
Seventh Seal is, bar none, one of my absolute favorite movies. Incredible allegorical commentary on the fear of global nuclear war.
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Perd Hapley

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Re: Long Live The Queen
« Reply #208 on: May 10, 2023, 11:01:06 AM »
I would probably watch that more often, but the wife just won't have it. Too bleak for her, I guess.
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WLJ

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Re: Long Live The Queen
« Reply #209 on: May 10, 2023, 11:09:10 AM »
That's Max von Sydow on the right BTW
The movie is in Swedish.
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WLJ

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Re: Long Live The Queen
« Reply #210 on: May 24, 2023, 12:55:41 PM »
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https://babylonbee.com/news/terrified-paparazzi-photographer-starting-to-think-this-meghan-markle-girl-is-stalking-him
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MechAg94

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Re: Long Live The Queen
« Reply #211 on: May 24, 2023, 03:29:58 PM »
"Why is King Charles's wife being referred to as Queen Camilla, while the late Queen Elizabeth's husband was merely Prince Phillip, the Queen Consort?"

According to something I read some years ago, it's because in British monarchical hierarchy, someone can only become King through direct lineal inheritance, not through marriage.

Ah, here, this article from Time explains it.

https://time.com/5222279/why-prince-philip-wasnt-king/
So why does Camilla get the title of Queen when she is not in the line of succession?  Does she lose that title upon the eventual death of King Charles? 

I am sure there are rules for that, but I don't know them.
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BobR

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Re: Long Live The Queen
« Reply #212 on: May 24, 2023, 03:31:21 PM »
So why does Camilla get the title of Queen when she is not in the line of succession?  Does she lose that title upon the eventual death of King Charles? 

I am sure there are rules for that, but I don't know them.

I am pretty sure it was because she said so!

bob

Hawkmoon

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Re: Long Live The Queen
« Reply #213 on: May 24, 2023, 04:23:01 PM »
So why does Camilla get the title of Queen when she is not in the line of succession?  Does she lose that title upon the eventual death of King Charles? 

I am sure there are rules for that, but I don't know them.

Well, Elizabeth's mother's title was Queen Mother, so there some precedent. Of course, Camilla isn't Will's mother, so maybe she'll then be titled the Queen Stepmother.
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K Frame

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Re: Long Live The Queen
« Reply #214 on: May 25, 2023, 07:48:34 AM »
So why does Camilla get the title of Queen when she is not in the line of succession?  Does she lose that title upon the eventual death of King Charles? 

I am sure there are rules for that, but I don't know them.

In essence, it's an honorary title unless the Queen is the monarch through direct lineal descent (a King's daughter and/or heir) as was the case with Mary, Elizabeth I, Victoria, and Elizabeth II. As Queen, Camilla has virtually no power in the English Constitution because it defines the powers of the monarch. Similarly, Prince Phillip didn't have any real power because he wasn't the monarch; Elizabeth II was.

Prior to 973, the king's wife didn't have a title and wasn't part of the coronation. That changed with the coronation of King Edgar when his wife, Ælfthryth, was also crowned during his coronation, making her the first Queen of England and the first to wield substantial power and influence (it seems like she was a real frosty bitch, read up on her).

So, for over 1,000 years wives of British kings have generally given the title of queen, even though they are not part of the line of succession.

Given that Camilla isn't the mother of William, she likely won't be given the title of Queen Mother, but will just be Queen Dowager if Charles kicks the bucket first.
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K Frame

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Re: Long Live The Queen
« Reply #215 on: May 25, 2023, 07:50:12 AM »
Well, Elizabeth's mother's title was Queen Mother, so there some precedent. Of course, Camilla isn't Will's mother, so maybe she'll then be titled the Queen Stepmother.

That's precedent because Elizabeth was the actual mother of Elizabeth II.

Who knows, maybe William will create a new title -- Queen Step Mother.
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HankB

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Re: Long Live The Queen
« Reply #216 on: May 25, 2023, 07:56:42 AM »
. . .
Who knows, maybe William will create a new title -- Queen Step Mother.
The scandal sheets have indicated he's not really fond of the woman his father took up with while still married to his actual mom (Diana). So perhaps once the crown is on HIS head he'll call her Queen Step Monster or some other similarly uncomplimentary title. Or simply "dis-entitle" her completely by royal decree.   >:D
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MechAg94

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Re: Long Live The Queen
« Reply #217 on: May 25, 2023, 09:03:00 AM »
If he doesn't like her even then, I would assume she would retain some important sounding title and he would make sure she is off on some estate where he doesn't have to ever see her again. 
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K Frame

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Re: Long Live The Queen
« Reply #218 on: May 25, 2023, 04:53:53 PM »
Oh, and another indication that the Queen, when the wife of the Monarch, is holding a ceremonial title?

She doesn't get a number after her name.

So, it wasn't King George VI and Queen Elizabeth II, it was just King George VI and Queen Elizabeth.

Queen Elizabeth II didn't happen until George VI's and Elizabeth's daughter became Queen on his death in 1952.

BUT!

There's always a but...

There is one example I've found where the king and queen were considered to be co-equal monarchs -- William III and Mary II.

This whole period of British history is confusing as hell. Mary II was British, William II was Dutch (House of Orange), and it took an act of parliament to proclaim that he would remain king and monarch if Mary died first (which she did.

Oops, there's a second... Queen Mary I and King Phillip....

Queen Mary was Elizabeth I's sister and a staunch Catholic who tried to overturn her father's (Henry VIII) reformation.
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zxcvbob

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Re: Long Live The Queen
« Reply #219 on: May 25, 2023, 05:43:51 PM »
Oh, and another indication that the Queen, when the wife of the Monarch, is holding a ceremonial title?

She doesn't get a number after her name.

So, it wasn't King George VI and Queen Elizabeth II, it was just King George VI and Queen Elizabeth.

Queen Elizabeth II didn't happen until George VI's and Elizabeth's daughter became Queen on his death in 1952.

BUT!

There's always a but...

There is one example I've found where the king and queen were considered to be co-equal monarchs -- William III and Mary II.

This whole period of British history is confusing as hell. Mary II was British, William II was Dutch (House of Orange), and it took an act of parliament to proclaim that he would remain king and monarch if Mary died first (which she did.

Oops, there's a second... Queen Mary I and King Phillip....

Queen Mary was Elizabeth I's sister and a staunch Catholic who tried to overturn her father's (Henry VIII) reformation.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iLyB08xXoBs
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K Frame

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Re: Long Live The Queen
« Reply #220 on: May 25, 2023, 06:46:51 PM »
Haven't heard that one before.

But yeah, that pretty much sums it up.  :rofl:
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WLJ

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Re: Long Live The Queen
« Reply #221 on: May 25, 2023, 06:48:23 PM »
Oh, and another indication that the Queen, when the wife of the Monarch, is holding a ceremonial title?

She doesn't get a number after her name.

So, it wasn't King George VI and Queen Elizabeth II, it was just King George VI and Queen Elizabeth.

Queen Elizabeth II didn't happen until George VI's and Elizabeth's daughter became Queen on his death in 1952.

BUT!

There's always a but...

There is one example I've found where the king and queen were considered to be co-equal monarchs -- William III and Mary II.

This whole period of British history is confusing as hell. Mary II was British, William II was Dutch (House of Orange), and it took an act of parliament to proclaim that he would remain king and monarch if Mary died first (which she did.

Oops, there's a second... Queen Mary I and King Phillip....

Queen Mary was Elizabeth I's sister and a staunch Catholic who tried to overturn her father's (Henry VIII) reformation.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iLyB08xXoBs

Wrong Mary
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K Frame

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Re: Long Live The Queen
« Reply #222 on: May 25, 2023, 07:01:31 PM »
I think he knows that, Sheldon. It was joke.
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K Frame

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Re: Long Live The Queen
« Reply #223 on: May 25, 2023, 07:02:36 PM »
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WLJ

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Re: Long Live The Queen
« Reply #224 on: February 05, 2024, 01:25:02 PM »
"Sometimes I think the surest sign that intelligent life exists elsewhere in the universe is that none of it has tried to contact us".
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