Massad Ayoob: Why you shouldn't search with a weapon-mounted light on a handgun

[WLJ]

Short video where Ayoob explains why you shouldn't use your weapon mounted light for searching. Doing so could lead to a felony aggravated assault charge.
Some may quibble against the advice and take it for what you paid for it but I for one have always felt uneasy with the though of having to point my gun at persons I don't intent on shooting. I do have weapon mounted lights but always keep a flashlight handy next to them. I've always like of the idea of being able to point my light in one direction and my gun another.

Why you shouldn't search with a weapon-mounted light on a handgun - Massad Ayoob Critical Mas EP40
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yte_ynhPItY

[dogmush]

Not this again.

Handheld lights and WML both have their place, but in general, for civilians in the US, I disagree with Mas.  WMLs do, as with every other aspect of firearms use, require a little bit of practice and familiarity to use correctly.

My main response would be if you are searching a place you are concerned enough to have a gun in your hand, you are going to want to have both hands on that weapon as much as possible, and if you DO need to take a hand off the gun to do something (open door, hold dog, whatever) you aren't going to want to lose use of your light source.

[Ben]

I just now watched this video and was going to post on it myself.

I totally get what Massad is saying, but for me it begs the question, "Why have a weapon light at all?". While he does give examples where the lights are a positive (given his underlying thesis), it seems they all put me at a tactical disadvantage speed-wise if I have to transition from the light to drawing the weapon.

One of the defensive classes that I have taken where we did a bit of night practice (during the day) was when weapon lights weren't as prevalent as they are now. For those of us without weapon lights, the instructor had as running our flashlights in one of the grip configurations that basically has the light and gun pointing in the same place, although much more clumsily than with an integrated light. 

I know that there is a school of thought that makes you and your weapon mounted (or separate light held in combat configuration) a target, and recommends holding the light in the weak hand well away from the body. But again, that puts you in a speed disadvantage if you have to engage a home invader.

I don't have anywhere near the expertise to give a valid opinion, but it is certainly an interesting discussion topic.

Edit: Dogmush posted as I typed.

[cordex]

My main response would be if you are searching a place you are concerned enough to have a gun in your hand, you are going to want to have both hands on that weapon as much as possible, and if you DO need to take a hand off the gun to do something (open door, hold dog, whatever) you aren't going to want to lose use of your light source.

Definitely agree. 

While I totally agree with Mr. Ayoob that a weapon light can be misused and that a prosecutor with a mind to will use any trick they can, this particular focus on the WML as the major issue is incongruous.

He notes that a partially drawn pistol alone has been sufficient to bring charges or that it might be argued that you could be startled and raise the gun and shoot without cause.  Using those points as a threshold, to be consistent he'd have to recommend never searching with any weapon in your hand, regardless of what accessories are on the gun.

[Pb]

Using a gun as a flashlight seems to be a good way to accidentally shoot an innocent party.

But maybe I am wrong.

[HankB]

Ayoob's advice is very situational. How many of us have family members who will bring someone else into the house - at night, in the dark - without the rest of the family being aware of it?^** Any stranger in my house - particularly at night - is a HOME INVADER. Need I say more?

Other than my home, I don't see myself searching anywhere else at night. (I'm aware of the hazards of house clearing.) If something hinky is going on at night outside, the circumstance would have to be VERY unusual for me to go out there to try and sort things out solo - my plan is to call 911 and stay inside behind locked doors.


^**-(If your daughter is sneaking her boyfriend in at night, you have more problems than we can resolve here.)

[K Frame]

I'm not searching under any circumstances.

If someone breaks into my house I stay in the bedroom with Seren and my 12 gauge while I phone the cops.

They can have whatever they want from downstairs. I don't care.

They come upstairs and try to enter my bedroom, that's when *expletive deleted*it gets real.

[dogmush]

Using a gun as a flashlight seems to be a good way to accidentally shoot an innocent party.

But maybe I am wrong.

With the caveat that it needs to not be the first time you've used a WML, you are wrong.  WML's excel at rapid target PID and engagement.  All but the shitiest Chinese NCStar crap have beams that allow you to search rooms and spaces close to you without flagging the things you are looking at.

A WML is like a red dot, or the firearm itself for that matter:  If you are using it for the first time while using it for real, you have already *expletive deleted*ed up.

I *highly* recommend finding somewhere that will let you use your weaponlight in the dark for real before deciding what kind of illumination your gun (or hand) needs. Among other things it's instructive to realize just how blind you are after that first shot as your WML hits all that gunsmoke.  Rifle lights especially.

[French G.]

Most of the time outside i am in observe and report mode. But if I want to unsettle and illuminate a large group of people I do have parachute flares.  Most of the time in my rural area I am happy with no light, I know where stuff is.

[bedlamite]

[Tuco]

Looking at it from the bad guys point of view, a flashlight makes a good target. From my own point of view, I cherish my night vision and avoid flashlights in all but the inkiest dark, and only then to avoid obstacles. I'm the guy who walks in the woods alone at night.
While I agree with the rationale that using a handgun as a flashlight may be dangerous, keeping rhe finger off the trigger is paramount.
As far as it being considered brandishing, if im searching in the dark for something to shoot, its way past brandishing.

[Ben]

Ayoob's advice is very situational. How many of us have family members who will bring someone else into the house - at night, in the dark - without the rest of the family being aware of it?^** Any stranger in my house - particularly at night - is a HOME INVADER. Need I say more?

Other than my home, I don't see myself searching anywhere else at night. (I'm aware of the hazards of house clearing.) If something hinky is going on at night outside, the circumstance would have to be VERY unusual for me to go out there to try and sort things out solo - my plan is to call 911 and stay inside behind locked doors.

I agree that each person's own situation will adjust what you do. If someone enters my home unannounced day or night, but especially at night, they are a home invader to me too. While I'm not big on room clearing, my bedroom is on the first floor and the cops are a good 30 minutes out, so maybe I can hunker down, maybe I can't.

For outside, if I hear something, I'm usually investigating, because it's probably an animal, and I need to check, but it might  not be, and I need to be prepared for two legs.

For my personal situation, I'm mostly for a light, and keeping my finger outside the trigger guard until I have a target, just as I do when doing defensive training at the range in daylight. I have the NODs option, which can mitigate the "gun flashlight", but as we have discussed elsewhere, NV comes with it's own pros and cons.

[dogmush]

Looking at it from the bad guys point of view, a flashlight makes a good target. From my own point of view, I cherish my night vision and avoid flashlights in all but the inkiest dark, and only then to avoid obstacles. I'm the guy who walks in the woods alone at night.
.

You don't necessarily turn the light on and sweep it around like a light saber.

In all my low light training we stressed not having an ND with white light as almost ias important as not having one with the bullet.

[MechAg94]

My position would be that it ought to be obvious to anyone with a bit of forethought that you shouldn't just use your WML as a flashlight.  It is mounted on a gun and should be treated that way.  If you are searching for your keys, either learn to point the light at the floor or carry an actual flashlight. 

The purpose of the WML is to make absolutely sure you know exactly what you are aiming at before you shoot as well as potentially blinding or delaying a deadly response from the target.  There are ways to illuminate your immediate area without sweeping the entire room. 

As always, know where you live and what sort of legal issues you are likely to have.  Plan accordingly.  If I am out on my parents property at night in rural Texas and I happen to point a WML at someone who is trespassing, I doubt I would run into too many issues from the Sheriff's deputies.  If I need to look around in my front yard here in town at my own house at night, I would probably just use a flashlight with a gun at the ready. 

[Doggy Daddy]

Every room in my house, plus the front porch, driveway, and back porch have some degree of lighting using smart lights.  I could hunker down in any room and have great control over lighting in all the rest of the house either by voice ("Alexa, ceiling off"), or by the Alexa app on my smartphone.  Using the app is, of course, much quieter. I won't give details on the security cam setup, but I will say that I'm extremely comfortable with that layout also.  I can view any of them "real time" on my phone or on any of the Alexae with a screen. So, I probably won't be clearing the house with a weapon mounted light, but I do have flashlights.

[K Frame]

"You don't necessarily turn the light on and sweep it around like a light saber."

But what about all of those Utoob advertisements for the flashlight that is literally a light sabre and can cut through anything??

[Blakenzy]

Well yeah, using a weapon mounted light as a general purpose search flashlight isn't advisable, just as Homer Simpson using his revolver as a universal TV remote wasn't smart idea either.

But if the situation has made you fill your hand with a firearm, assuming you are a reasonable individual,  then the stakes are very likely waaay past aggravated assault, in which case what he says is all very academic but not a reasonable concern at that moment.