Poll

Who blew up Nord Stream 1 and 2?

Russians
9 (34.6%)
Germans
0 (0%)
USA
7 (26.9%)
Other power in europe
1 (3.8%)
Some non state actor
1 (3.8%)
China?
0 (0%)
Other
2 (7.7%)
No Clue
6 (23.1%)

Total Members Voted: 26

Author Topic: Who blew up Nord Stream 1 and 2?  (Read 5004 times)

WLJ

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Re: Who blew up Nord Stream 1 and 2?
« Reply #25 on: September 29, 2022, 12:29:56 PM »
As far as this being accidental we now have two or three (NS1 is actually 2 lines but not sure if just NS1-A or NS1-B has sprung a leak or both) separate pipelines leaking in four* different locations after multiple explosions reported in the area.

*Not sure how the four leaks are spread out between the three pipelines.
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sumpnz

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Re: Who blew up Nord Stream 1 and 2?
« Reply #26 on: September 29, 2022, 12:55:41 PM »
I'm right there with you.

He did mention the possibility of a kinetic event when the plug dislodges.  I do not know if the seismic analysis would show "it looks like an explosion" if this were the root cause, though.

A.) I don’t grok methane hydrate chemistry, but it doesn’t sound like combustion is the topic.  More like rapid, highly localized, pressure spikes resulting in rupture.

B.) Given the thickness of the steel pipes, and concrete encapsulation, would a rupture from a non-splodey pressure spike (whether “kinetic” or just local pressure spike) be distinguishable from a splodey type on seismic sensors?

kgbsquirrel

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Re: Who blew up Nord Stream 1 and 2?
« Reply #27 on: September 29, 2022, 04:41:58 PM »
I'm in the who cares camp.

Over the past several decades the US repeatedly warned Western Europe, especially Germany, not to get so goddamned cozy with, and dependent on, the Russians for their energy needs.

Now they're paying for that. Hard.

Gas prices went back up over $5 here when nordstream got popped.  Care now?

cordex

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Re: Who blew up Nord Stream 1 and 2?
« Reply #28 on: September 29, 2022, 04:49:22 PM »
Gas prices went back up over $5 here when nordstream got popped.  Care now?
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Re: Who blew up Nord Stream 1 and 2?
« Reply #29 on: September 29, 2022, 05:38:13 PM »
Gas prices went back up over $5 here when nordstream got popped.  Care now?

Hurricane Ian just ripped a new ahole in Florida too. Refinery issues on the west coast.

Gas probably isn't going to be the only thing rising as stuff gets rebuilt after the hurricane.
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lee n. field

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Re: Who blew up Nord Stream 1 and 2?
« Reply #30 on: September 29, 2022, 07:28:52 PM »
As far as this being accidental we now have two or three (NS1 is actually 2 lines but not sure if just NS1-A or NS1-B has sprung a leak or both) separate pipelines leaking in four* different locations after multiple explosions reported in the area.

*Not sure how the four leaks are spread out between the three pipelines.

I'm going to go with "CIA" or "it jus blewd up".
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zxcvbob

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Re: Who blew up Nord Stream 1 and 2?
« Reply #31 on: September 29, 2022, 08:13:46 PM »
"Blow'd up good.  Blow'd up real good."

https://youtu.be/uHkvD7-u7y8
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ConstitutionCowboy

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Re: Who blew up Nord Stream 1 and 2?
« Reply #32 on: September 29, 2022, 08:16:03 PM »
Man, that could turn out to be one hell of an aerosol bomb!

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BobR

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Re: Who blew up Nord Stream 1 and 2?
« Reply #33 on: September 29, 2022, 08:42:34 PM »
I think it just ruptured. Russian quality. Nothing moving through pipes in quite while. Moisture pools, steel rusts, pipe ruptures. Or aliens, take you pick.

bob

kgbsquirrel

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Re: Who blew up Nord Stream 1 and 2?
« Reply #34 on: September 29, 2022, 08:48:00 PM »
I think it just ruptured. Russian quality. Nothing moving through pipes in quite while. Moisture pools, steel rusts, pipe ruptures. Or aliens, take you pick.

bob

Improper maintenance causing a hydrate plug to dislodge violently could do it.  But do it to four different pipes at the same time?  That's intentional.

RoadKingLarry

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Re: Who blew up Nord Stream 1 and 2?
« Reply #35 on: September 29, 2022, 09:48:31 PM »
If ye love wealth better than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, go home from us in peace. We ask not your counsels or your arms. Crouch down and lick the hands which feed you. May your chains set lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen.

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Blakenzy

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Re: Who blew up Nord Stream 1 and 2?
« Reply #36 on: September 30, 2022, 08:28:25 AM »
Obviously the US did it to force Europe to go all in. Nothing left to lose, nothing left to negotiate. Why the hell would Russia cut the hose if they control the faucet? As for an accident yeah right, during a critical time of the war a strategic asset of power blows up, but no it was probably just some whales using the infrastructure as scratching poles  ;/
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WLJ

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Re: Who blew up Nord Stream 1 and 2?
« Reply #37 on: September 30, 2022, 08:36:39 AM »
Why the hell would Russia cut the hose if they control the faucet?

There was gas in the lines but it wasn't being moved so they weren't really being used anyway. I can see Russia doing it to blame the US/NATO/W. Europe and by extension Ukraine both as a distraction internally and externally and to drive up prices in Europe.
« Last Edit: September 30, 2022, 09:29:08 AM by WLJ »
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Ben

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Re: Who blew up Nord Stream 1 and 2?
« Reply #38 on: September 30, 2022, 10:27:01 AM »
I just saw on the teevee that NATO is calling it sabotage. They say the explosions were too far apart and too closely timed for it to be coincidence or a cascade failure (I could see the latter on pipes close together within the same manifold system). The teevee didn't say if NATO named a likely culprit.
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K Frame

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Re: Who blew up Nord Stream 1 and 2?
« Reply #39 on: September 30, 2022, 11:28:09 AM »
Gas prices went back up over $5 here when nordstream got popped.  Care now?

Gas as in Natural Gas?

Or Gas as in Gasoline?

Not sure where you live, but Nordstream's leaks has had exactly ZERO effect on gasoline prices in Washington, DC, metro.

So.... no. Still don't care in the least.
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dogmush

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Re: Who blew up Nord Stream 1 and 2?
« Reply #40 on: September 30, 2022, 12:28:14 PM »
Didn't the Tom Clancy Novel "Red Storm Rising" start with Russian oil infrastructure exploding and slowly escalate into WW3? I feel like between the explosion's and NATO's response to them we are accelerating towards direct conflict.

sumpnz

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Re: Who blew up Nord Stream 1 and 2?
« Reply #41 on: September 30, 2022, 12:46:07 PM »
I just saw on the teevee that NATO is calling it sabotage. They say the explosions were too far apart and too closely timed for it to be coincidence or a cascade failure (I could see the latter on pipes close together within the same manifold system). The teevee didn't say if NATO named a likely culprit.

I’m going to stick with crappy Russian maintenance leading to accidents until credible information comes out to the contrary.

Lennyjoe

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Re: Who blew up Nord Stream 1 and 2?
« Reply #42 on: September 30, 2022, 12:52:08 PM »
I’m going to stick with crappy Russian maintenance leading to accidents until credible information comes out to the contrary.

Probably the most likely scenario but someone is going to use it as an excuse for escalation…

K Frame

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Re: Who blew up Nord Stream 1 and 2?
« Reply #43 on: September 30, 2022, 01:08:19 PM »
Didn't the Tom Clancy Novel "Red Storm Rising" start with Russian oil infrastructure exploding and slowly escalate into WW3? I feel like between the explosion's and NATO's response to them we are accelerating towards direct conflict.

Yes. Religious terrorists basically brought Soviet oil production to its knees.

Not really sure I see much in the way of corollaries between the fictional and the real, though.
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dogmush

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Re: Who blew up Nord Stream 1 and 2?
« Reply #44 on: September 30, 2022, 02:20:37 PM »
I’m going to stick with crappy Russian maintenance leading to accidents until credible information comes out to the contrary.

Which matters more: what actually happened, or the narratives that are pushed upon the public consciousness?  Which will world leaders act on?

Ben

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Re: Who blew up Nord Stream 1 and 2?
« Reply #45 on: September 30, 2022, 02:48:39 PM »
Which matters more: what actually happened, or the narratives that are pushed upon the public consciousness?  Which will world leaders act on?

Yeppers.

I was just searching news feeds, and the predominant narrative by entities like NATO and the governments of other countries (and their intel agencies) is that this was sabotage. It seems to be running about 70/30 right now on if it was Russia or the US.

So yeah, it could be a complete accident, but official international bodies are calling it sabotage, and that's what everyone will be running with. To include speculation that the US set it up during the recent BALTOPS exercise.
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Blakenzy

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Re: Who blew up Nord Stream 1 and 2?
« Reply #46 on: September 30, 2022, 02:49:35 PM »
Which matters more: what actually happened, or the narratives that are pushed upon the public consciousness?  Which will world leaders act on?

World leaders are hellbent on making this current unpleasantness nuclear, so whichever leads there...
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sumpnz

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Re: Who blew up Nord Stream 1 and 2?
« Reply #47 on: September 30, 2022, 05:04:30 PM »
Which matters more: what actually happened, or the narratives that are pushed upon the public consciousness?  Which will world leaders act on?

Fair point.  Regardless though this will only reinforce my assumption of governcritters being consistent liars.

Perd Hapley

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Re: Who blew up Nord Stream 1 and 2?
« Reply #48 on: September 30, 2022, 08:19:52 PM »
Fair point.  Regardless though this will only reinforce my assumption of governcritters being consistent liars.

Depends on what you mean by "consistent."
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RoadKingLarry

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Re: Who blew up Nord Stream 1 and 2?
« Reply #49 on: September 30, 2022, 08:31:36 PM »
Fair point.  Regardless though this will only reinforce my assumption of governcritters being consistent liars.
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Their lips are moving.
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