Author Topic: Why colleges are making themselves irrelevant  (Read 1649 times)

Hawkmoon

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Why colleges are making themselves irrelevant
« on: September 01, 2023, 08:57:57 AM »
https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/investigations/2023/08/31/clown-fetish-professor-kent-northern-illinois-nicholls-state/70603544007/

Geography professor [allegedly] harassed students to allow him to paint their faces. I'm sure it was only a coincidence that this involved only attractive, female students. But ...

Quote
Tokosh also told students the face painting was a requirement in his cultural geography class to better understand other cultures. In a video interview with Hannah Robert, the station manager for the student-run KNSU TV, he says: “That's an assignment in one of my classes where they actually come up with their own face paint and makeup design inspired by a culture and they implement it.”

What the [bleep] is "cultural" geography?

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Ben

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Re: Why colleges are making themselves irrelevant
« Reply #1 on: September 01, 2023, 09:14:01 AM »
What the [bleep] is "cultural" geography?

A term that has been around as long as the term "geography".

https://www.mometrix.com/academy/physical-vs-cultural-geography/

In fact, cultural geographers are highly sought after by the three letter agencies, especially the CIA.

That doesn't mean there can't be geography professors who are jerks, just like physics professors who are jerks.
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MillCreek

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Re: Why colleges are making themselves irrelevant
« Reply #2 on: September 01, 2023, 09:16:41 AM »
^^^I like to learn something every day, and this was interesting.
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WLJ

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Re: Why colleges are making themselves irrelevant
« Reply #3 on: September 01, 2023, 10:06:16 AM »

Of course you know it's society's and capitalism's fault when they're $100k in debt getting silly majors and they can't find a $200k a/year job straight out of college.
College's are by far the biggest scam out there producing idiots with zero life and job skills who will gladly tell you 24/7 how much smarter they are than you.
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230RN

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Re: Why colleges are making themselves irrelevant
« Reply #4 on: September 01, 2023, 10:25:49 AM »


College was one of the most valuable learning experiences of my life, not only "technically," but "real worldally."  This was back in the late fifties, early sixties, so things may have changed a lot.  I noticed from various comments here and there that many jobs no longer require a college degree.

Colleges are in the business of making money, and the more pissant courses they create which can manufacture degrees (like the legendary basket-weaving), the more students they attract and the more mon...  need I continue?

 

WLJ

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Re: Why colleges are making themselves irrelevant
« Reply #5 on: September 01, 2023, 10:32:02 AM »
Vent away.  What precipitated that?

College was one of the most valuable learning experiences of my life, not only "technically," but "real worldally."  This was back in the late fifties, early sixties, so things may have changed a lot.  I noticed from various comments here and there that many jobs nolonger require a college degree, so maybe that's in line with your plaint.

Colleges are in the business of making money, and the more pissant courses they create which can manufacture degrees (like the legendary basket-weaving), the more students they attract and the more mon...  need I continue?

Key there in your post was 50s and 60s, a LOT has changed since then. Nowadays, with some exceptions of course, they're good little "useful idiot" factories. Noticed it going south in the 90s when I worked at one. Probably somewhere in the neighborhood of 60-70% of recent college grads I bump into today have just about zero life, job, and analytical skills, many can't even do simple math. But they sure can tell you how evil capitalism and the US is and how socialism is the answer to everything. YMMV.
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K Frame

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Re: Why colleges are making themselves irrelevant
« Reply #6 on: September 01, 2023, 10:32:21 AM »
"What the [bleep] is "cultural" geography?"

Literally the cause of thousands of years of angst and warfare all over the *expletive deleted*ing world.

Europe in the 1930s...

Hitler: We DEMAND the Sudetenland from Czechoslovakia because its inhabitants are culturally German!

Japan in the 1930s: We have created the Greater East Asia Co-Prosperity Sphere for the betterment of all (Japanese) Asians!

The Sunni and Shia in the Middle East, the Kurds, in the Middle East, cultural geography is just a litany of endless conflict and death.
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K Frame

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Re: Why colleges are making themselves irrelevant
« Reply #7 on: September 01, 2023, 10:33:58 AM »
"Nowadays, with some exceptions of course, they're good little communist factories."

Yeah, because in the 1920s-1940s colleges were SO conservative...

Hotbeds of Radical Republicanism and Fascism...
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WLJ

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Re: Why colleges are making themselves irrelevant
« Reply #8 on: September 01, 2023, 10:35:17 AM »
"Nowadays, with some exceptions of course, they're good little communist factories."

Yeah, because in the 1920s-1940s colleges were SO conservative...

Hotbeds of Radical Republicanism and Fascism...

no doubt. But the dial has been turned to 11 now. Used to be they tried to hide it, now they quite open about it.
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WLJ

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Re: Why colleges are making themselves irrelevant
« Reply #9 on: September 01, 2023, 10:42:49 AM »
Sorry, a bit grumpy this morning.
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WLJ

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Re: Why colleges are making themselves irrelevant
« Reply #10 on: September 01, 2023, 11:06:45 AM »
"Nowadays, with some exceptions of course, they're good little communist factories."

Yeah, because in the 1920s-1940s colleges were SO conservative...

Hotbeds of Radical Republicanism and Fascism...

You beat my edit, changed it to "good little useful idiots" which I think better describes what I far too often see coming out of college nowadays.
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HankB

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Re: Why colleges are making themselves irrelevant
« Reply #11 on: September 01, 2023, 01:31:34 PM »
I've counseled some of my cousins' kids about college. Fresh out of high school, some weren't too sure of what they wanted to major in - so I told them during their 1st semester, go check in at the college's placement office and find out what degrees are in demand, what the placement rate is for different degrees, and what the starting pay is for different fields. AVOID the low-demand, low-placement, low-pay areas, even if they sound like fun.

You're not there to have fun - at least not primarily.   ;) 

You're there to learn a marketable set of skills. If you don't do that, you'll run up debts that are hard to pay off with a career in food service or package delivery.
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Hawkmoon

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Re: Why colleges are making themselves irrelevant
« Reply #12 on: September 01, 2023, 09:19:18 PM »

You're not there to have fun - at least not primarily.   ;) 


I lost count of how many times I tried to explain that to my daughter.

She ignored me, of course. And then got kicked out. And now she's 28 years old and working at burger flipper type jobs and wondering what happened to her life.
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WLJ

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Re: Why colleges are making themselves irrelevant
« Reply #13 on: September 01, 2023, 09:46:53 PM »
I lost count of how many times I tried to explain that to my daughter.

She ignored me, of course. And then got kicked out. And now she's 28 years old and working at burger flipper type jobs and wondering what happened to her life.

Ironically just spoke to my daughter just a little while ago, she's going to college after putting it off. Don't know much in the way of details yet but she wants to major in criminal justice
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Pb

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Re: Why colleges are making themselves irrelevant
« Reply #14 on: September 02, 2023, 11:05:55 AM »
no doubt. But the dial has been turned to 11 now. Used to be they tried to hide it, now they quite open about it.

This is correct.  Conservatives are vastly outnumbered by liberals in the faculty.  A ratio of 11 to 1 or even worse... much, much worse.  Many colleges are now using "diversity statements" in hiring.  Diversity statements are statements of political philosophy, where a person is expected to explain their active support of homosexual sodomy, transexual fetishism, and espouse discrimination against white men.  Failure to demonstrate your activities in support of these goals will get your application trashed.  Supporting "colorblind" policies or "equal treatment under law" is an automatic red flag that you will never be hired.

No conservative could can ever slip through these application processes unless they lie.

Hawkmoon

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Re: Why colleges are making themselves irrelevant
« Reply #15 on: September 02, 2023, 02:04:26 PM »
This is correct.  Conservatives are vastly outnumbered by liberals in the faculty.  A ratio of 11 to 1 or even worse... much, much worse.  Many colleges are now using "diversity statements" in hiring.  Diversity statements are statements of political philosophy, where a person is expected to explain their active support of homosexual sodomy, transexual fetishism, and espouse discrimination against white men.  Failure to demonstrate your activities in support of these goals will get your application trashed.  Supporting "colorblind" policies or "equal treatment under law" is an automatic red flag that you will never be hired.

No conservative could can ever slip through these application processes unless they lie.

Unfortunately, this is the new (or not-so-new) reality. It has probably been the de facto norm for quite some time, but the new, open emphasis on "diversity" has allowed them to stop even pretending.
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JTHunter

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Re: Why colleges are making themselves irrelevant
« Reply #16 on: September 04, 2023, 12:01:36 AM »
College was one of the most valuable learning experiences of my life, not only "technically," but "real worldally."  This was back in the late fifties, early sixties, so things may have changed a lot.  I noticed from various comments here and there that many jobs no longer require a college degree.

Colleges are in the business of making money, and the more pissant courses they create which can manufacture degrees (like the legendary basket-weaving), the more students they attract and the more mon...  need I continue?

My collegian experiences were a bit later.  We were at the tail end of the hippies, but had to endure "Jesus freaks", streakers, etc. and, except for a couple of exceptional professors, the times were so-so.  I wasn't a particularly adept student, especially where math was concerned.  Thanks to one of those "exceptional professors" giving me some extra help, I might not have graduated.  He saw that I could do the work but that I "choked" when taking tests so he just told me to do the best I could.
I squeaked by, literally.
  :facepalm:
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HankB

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Re: Why colleges are making themselves irrelevant
« Reply #17 on: September 04, 2023, 08:33:31 AM »
. . . No conservative could can ever slip through these application processes unless they lie.
They teach you to lie.

They also talk about things like "institutional racism" as if it was something new. Even back in the '70s, there were a substantial number of college students who didn't check off the expected "white" box on their scholarship application, instead checking African- or Native-American. There was an advantage to doing that as students, just as there is now to doing so as job seekers. (Ask Rachel Dolezal or Elizabeth Warren.)

I don't like the dishonesty they're encouraging, but if they're going to discriminate against some people simply for what they are I don't have a problem with using subterfuge to get around it.
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WLJ

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Re: Why colleges are making themselves irrelevant
« Reply #18 on: September 04, 2023, 08:47:03 AM »
They teach you to lie.

They also talk about things like "institutional racism" as if it was something new. Even back in the '70s, there were a substantial number of college students who didn't check off the expected "white" box on their scholarship application, instead checking African- or Native-American. There was an advantage to doing that as students, just as there is now to doing so as job seekers. (Ask Rachel Dolezal or Elizabeth Warren.)

I don't like the dishonesty they're encouraging, but if they're going to discriminate against some people simply for what they are I don't have a problem with using subterfuge to get around it.

Eliminate the race box, it has no business being there other than to enable racism and make certain groups apathetic to bettering themselves.
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Hawkmoon

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Re: Why colleges are making themselves irrelevant
« Reply #19 on: September 04, 2023, 02:33:26 PM »
Eliminate the race box, it has no business being there other than to enable racism and make certain groups apathetic to bettering themselves.

I think I argued that the the BATFE the last time they proposed a revision to the Form 4473. I eventually received a mealy-mouthed, non-sensical response that essentially said "f u, peasant."
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WLJ

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Re: Why colleges are making themselves irrelevant
« Reply #20 on: September 04, 2023, 02:38:01 PM »
I think I argued that the the BATFE the last time they proposed a revision to the Form 4473. I eventually received a mealy-mouthed, non-sensical response that essentially said "f u, peasant."

Should have ask them why is it every time I check black I get denied? Wonder how long of a silent pause you would have gotten while they try to figure out an answer?
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T.O.M.

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Re: Why colleges are making themselves irrelevant
« Reply #21 on: September 04, 2023, 02:49:14 PM »
My oldest graduated in 2022.  My youngest is in year 4 of a 5 year plan.  Both attended state colleges here in Ohio.  Oldest went to Miami University.  Youngest is at the University of Cincinnati.   How liberal the faculty is depends on the college.  Business schools tend to be more conservative.  Liberal arts tends more liberal.  Seems to me the same can be said about the students.  Some majors are more conservative or more liberal than others. 

One thing I think that gets forgotten along the way is that colleges are, at their core, businesses.  They sell education. So far, the market supports the way they teach, and the cost they charge.  I don't see it changing unless or until the market shifts to make the product undesirable, either due to the way they teach or the prices they charge.  That said, my oldest got an education degree, and was hired as a full time teacher within months of graduating.  Youngest is studying political science, government, and international affairs, likely headed to law school.  He just got hired by a company to work part-time as a government liaison (lobbyist) for $30 an hour.  Guess there is a demand for those educations
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JTHunter

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Re: Why colleges are making themselves irrelevant
« Reply #22 on: September 05, 2023, 02:29:48 PM »
My oldest graduated in 2022.  My youngest is in year 4 of a 5 year plan.  Both attended state colleges here in Ohio.  Oldest went to Miami University.  Youngest is at the University of Cincinnati.   How liberal the faculty is depends on the college.  Business schools tend to be more conservative.  Liberal arts tends more liberal.  Seems to me the same can be said about the students.  Some majors are more conservative or more liberal than others. 

One thing I think that gets forgotten along the way is that colleges are, at their core, businesses.  They sell education. So far, the market supports the way they teach, and the cost they charge.  I don't see it changing unless or until the market shifts to make the product undesirable, either due to the way they teach or the prices they charge.  That said, my oldest got an education degree, and was hired as a full time teacher within months of graduating.  Youngest is studying political science, government, and international affairs, likely headed to law school.  He just got hired by a company to work part-time as a government liaison (lobbyist) for $30 an hour.  Guess there is a demand for those educations.

Considering teacher's unions (esp. here in IL-ANNOY - specifically Chicago), that may not be a good indicator as far too many teachers unions are too politically active and waste dues on that rather than members.  Look at what has happened with the "Amendment 1" just added to the IL-ANNOY state constitution.  It gives the "government employee" unions the right to ignore state laws.  It also means an increase in our already outrageous property taxes by about $500-700 per year for the next 4 years.
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MechAg94

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Re: Why colleges are making themselves irrelevant
« Reply #23 on: September 05, 2023, 03:52:27 PM »
I would just say college is what you make of it.  If a kid doesn't know what they want to major in, they may want to stay close to home and go to a local Junior College or community college to save money.  Maybe get out and find a non-food service job until they get things figured out.  I remember a lot of kids from my high school started in college and then dropped out due to partying or lack of interest.  The ones who wanted it, went back.  Others found other jobs. 

On the communists at colleges thing, all I can say is to try to teach kids a little critical thinking skills and such before they go to college so they can at least ask the college communists to be more specific which they often cannot.  I wonder if there are books/videos on recognizing common argument/persuasion tactics or just classical rhetoric stuff.       
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Ben

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Re: Why colleges are making themselves irrelevant
« Reply #24 on: September 05, 2023, 04:52:52 PM »
I would just say college is what you make of it.  If a kid doesn't know what they want to major in, they may want to stay close to home and go to a local Junior College or community college to save money.  Maybe get out and find a non-food service job until they get things figured out.  I remember a lot of kids from my high school started in college and then dropped out due to partying or lack of interest.  The ones who wanted it, went back.  Others found other jobs. 

On the communists at colleges thing, all I can say is to try to teach kids a little critical thinking skills and such before they go to college so they can at least ask the college communists to be more specific which they often cannot.  I wonder if there are books/videos on recognizing common argument/persuasion tactics or just classical rhetoric stuff.     

I did one year of JC right out of High School and soon was mature enough to realize that I was not mature enough to buckle down in college. I waited eight years, working in the oil patch and the county dump earning money for college, and the years of blue collar from the "not real fun" end of the blue collar jobs was a pretty big motivator to get me to buckle down on college attempt #2.

I also did the two years at JC at night while I was working at the dump (the county paid for it) to get all the "check the box" classes out of the way, then was able to concentrate on my major when I went to the high dollar college. I strongly believe that my blue collar time, outlined in that letter you write when you submit your application, along with 4.0 at JC, was a primary factor getting me accepted at several of the top UCs in California.

Though I honestly don't know that, were I that same age now with what I'm seeing going on at college campuses, if I would still make the college choice. I recently looked at my old department at UCSB, who during my time had some uber-sciency message as their mission statement, and now has some DEI blather as their mission statement. In a science department. I also perused the current MA/PhD student  bios, and saw the words "gender" and "diversity" mentioned way too many times in science thesis and dissertation projects.

That said, there was plenty of proto-woke stuff going on in my time, and most of it was easy enough to ignore. I had several professors who were pushing the global warming crap at the time, so I just put my brain on automatic in their lectures to get the grade, and then did research on my own time in the subject matter, based on my interests and goals.

I think the big problem currently, especially at the Ivy League schools, is that it's much, much harder to fly under the radar. You can't just tell a transgender, "Hey, whatever floats your boat, man." You now have to bend the knee, and not just accept, but promote and cheer, and if you don't, you can actually get kicked out of college for hate. I'll only bend the knee for one guy, and he's not on Earth.
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